[kingice10]

Can't wait for your impressions on the EM4s @average_joe.
 
Btw, do you hear a clear advantage of having multiple-ba drivers on a single frequency response like bass, than having one ba bass driver or shared by other frequency response (mids or highs) on a single-ba driver? How about the number of cross-over configurations?
 
I can only compare 2-1ba, 3-3ba and 8-3ba (driver to cross-over configuration). And what I can hear is that transparency and layering is handled very well by iems with more ba drivers. I hear on my iems that the more drivers they have, the greater they handle complex music easily - separation of instruments is clear but coherency is less. Like for example the bass on my JH16, it is rendered with a whole note sound, that's why it sounded very bassy to some coming from a balance iem, maybe the bass frequency is sliced up to each pieces of the bass drivers, also the same with the other spectrum like the highs and the mids. I can't say it's advantage is on details since my dynamic iems can do that very well, like the EX1000.
 
I'm just assuming and maybe I'm wrong but with your experience is this also your finding on your other ciems if they are done very-well (excellent fit, no driver problems)?

 

[Mini0510]

 
joe, I am happy to say that the FX700 is exactly what you described. It definitely has more treble presence than the Turbine Copper. It also has more clarity, 3D, and separation.
 
It's very good but not perfect. If I'm looking for tighter bass, more 3D presentation, and more instrument separation, do I have to go into the custom market?
 
Thanks

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

Can't wait for your impressions on the EM4s @average_joe.
 
Btw, do you hear a clear advantage of having multiple-ba drivers on a single frequency response like bass, than having one ba bass driver or shared by other frequency response (mids or highs) on a single-ba driver? How about the number of cross-over configurations?
 
I can only compare 2-1ba, 3-3ba and 8-3ba (driver to cross-over configuration). And what I can hear is that transparency and layering is handled very well by iems with more ba drivers. I hear on my iems that the more drivers they have, the greater they handle complex music easily - separation of instruments is clear but coherency is less. Like for example the bass on my JH16, it is rendered with a whole note sound, that's why it sounded very bassy to some coming from a balance iem, maybe the bass frequency is sliced up to each pieces of the bass drivers, also the same with the other spectrum like the highs and the mids. I can't say it's advantage is on details since my dynamic iems can do that very well, like the EX1000.
 
I'm just assuming and maybe I'm wrong but with your experience is this also your finding on your other ciems if they are done very-well (excellent fit, no driver problems)?

The EM4 review is nearing completion!
 
There is more to it than just driver count.  The two highest technical performers I have utilize 5 driver 5-way and 6 driver 4-way designs.  What really matters IMO is the tuning in combination with the sound signature.  If the CIEM is tuned for the specific sound signature, it can perform quite well, even with a lower number of drivers, such as the UERM.  Things like transparency and instrument separation are more dependent on the overall setup than the number of drivers.  While the EX1000 has its strengths, I don't think it competes in with most of my CIEMs in the detail region, but then I use the highest resolution sources I have most of the time and for comparisons.
 
Quote:

 
joe, I am happy to say that the FX700 is exactly what you described. It definitely has more treble presence than the Turbine Copper. It also has more clarity, 3D, and separation.
 
It's very good but not perfect. If I'm looking for tighter bass, more 3D presentation, and more instrument separation, do I have to go into the custom market?
 
Thanks

Glad your findings agree with mine.  You can get tighter bass and a more 3D presentation with better instrument separation from the SM3, however you will not have the same sound signature, and actually somewhat opposite with a forward midrange and a good deal less treble.  The W4 may also be a good fit, offering those things and there are many CIEMs that will give you what you are looking for, but how do you want it presented is the question.

 

[Mini0510]

Quote:

Glad your findings agree with mine.  You can get tighter bass and a more 3D presentation with better instrument separation from the SM3, however you will not have the same sound signature, and actually somewhat opposite with a forward midrange and a good deal less treble.  The W4 may also be a good fit, offering those things and there are many CIEMs that will give you what you are looking for, but how do you want it presented is the question.

 
That's fairly easy to answer. I certainly would prefer the same sound signature. Im just wonder if there are any customs out there that has the same sound signature as FX700? Does the Rooth LS8 sound anything like that?

 

[Kanashimu]

Hey Joe,

If I have a loose fit, do you normally find that overall sonic performance is greatly improved by a refit?
 
Also, of your customs, how many would you say are sonically on the same level as your LCD-2s?

Thanks again for all your input.. I'm deciding on whether if I should refit or sell, and your input is greatly appreciated.

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

 
That's fairly easy to answer. I certainly would prefer the same sound signature. Im just wonder if there are any customs out there that has the same sound signature as FX700? Does the Rooth LS8 sound anything like that?

The TS842 is probably the closest match, but it is more like the FX500 than the 700.  The JH16 also shares a similar sound signature.  The LS8 is also similar, but warmer, much more liquid, but the bass is not quite as visceral.  I believe the NT-6 Pro also has a similar sound signature, but I have to get it before I know for sure. If the TS842 isn't a good choice for you based on the review, Rooth does have a dynamic/BA hybrid, but I am not sure how it sounds.
 
Quote:

Hey Joe,

If I have a loose fit, do you normally find that overall sonic performance is greatly improved by a refit?
 
Also, of your customs, how many would you say are sonically on the same level as your LCD-2s?

Thanks again for all your input.. I'm deciding on whether if I should refit or sell, and your input is greatly appreciated.

I have only had one CIEM that has had a somewhat loose fit, so I don't have a lot of experience.  The biggest differences by far are in the bass region with extension and weight greatly increasing, but the better seal you have the better everything comes together.
 
I did have the Miracle demo at the same time as a Miracle made for someone else's ears, and the real thing, even though it wasn't made for my ears had more detail and much better spatial qualities for whatever reason.  I was using silicone tips with both.
 
The EM4 and SA-43 compete with the LCD-2, but note that they have different strengths/weaknesses.  The NT6 and SE 5-way are superior, but again different strengths and weaknesses and the NT6 has a very different sound signature.  The LS8, UERM, and JH16 aren't far behind and with EQ the EarPower EP-10 Plus is also in that category.  As I always say about headphones vs. IEMs, the main presentation differences consists of more space from the headphones with better coherence in the head with IEMs.  The size of the presentation is not that far off compared with the high end headphones I have heard.

 

[Mython]

   ^
   

 

[Mini0510]

Quote:

 

The TS842 is probably the closest match, but it is more like the FX500 than the 700.  The JH16 also shares a similar sound signature.  The LS8 is also similar, but warmer, much more liquid, but the bass is not quite as visceral.  I believe the NT-6 Pro also has a similar sound signature, but I have to get it before I know for sure. If the TS842 isn't a good choice for you based on the review, Rooth does have a dynamic/BA hybrid, but I am not sure how it sound

 
If I'm going to buy a custom, its going to be around $1000.
1. But LS8 has more treble presence and more extended treble than the JH16 right?
2. does LS8 have as much bass as FX700?
3. how are JH16 and LS8 different?
 
 

 

[Kanashimu]

Quote:

 

The TS842 is probably the closest match, but it is more like the FX500 than the 700.  The JH16 also shares a similar sound signature.  The LS8 is also similar, but warmer, much more liquid, but the bass is not quite as visceral.  I believe the NT-6 Pro also has a similar sound signature, but I have to get it before I know for sure. If the TS842 isn't a good choice for you based on the review, Rooth does have a dynamic/BA hybrid, but I am not sure how it sounds.
 

I have only had one CIEM that has had a somewhat loose fit, so I don't have a lot of experience.  The biggest differences by far are in the bass region with extension and weight greatly increasing, but the better seal you have the better everything comes together.
 
I did have the Miracle demo at the same time as a Miracle made for someone else's ears, and the real thing, even though it wasn't made for my ears had more detail and much better spatial qualities for whatever reason.  I was using silicone tips with both.
 
The EM4 and SA-43 compete with the LCD-2, but note that they have different strengths/weaknesses.  The NT6 and SE 5-way are superior, but again different strengths and weaknesses and the NT6 has a very different sound signature.  The LS8, UERM, and JH16 aren't far behind and with EQ the EarPower EP-10 Plus is also in that category.  As I always say about headphones vs. IEMs, the main presentation differences consists of more space from the headphones with better coherence in the head with IEMs.  The size of the presentation is not that far off compared with the high end headphones I have heard.

 
Thanks, that was quite helpful.
 
Where would you put the Miracles then, or would you say its difficult to answer without getting one custom molded for you?

I'm so torn between trying something else like the NT6 or ES5 or getting a refit. I'm rather worried that if I try something new, I'll run into different problems that the Miracles do not have even if I get a good fit.


I guess the issue is at home. The Miracle seems to be sonically better than my HE-500s on about every level (except maybe soundstage, where the HE-500 is bigger but the Miracle is more natural and precise) except that I reach for the HE-500 every time because it is simply more reliable. The Miracle is like a flighty girlfriend.. gotta treat her with care, pamper her and be incredibly nice so that she'll sing for you. Every facial movement can make me lose seal and cause the sound to be awkward. I want a single CIEM I can live with so I can just sell the HE-500 and have a nice extra chunk of money, which could go into a better DAP or something.
 
I also get the impression that UM doesn't try to mold their IEMs to fit especially firm. They're opposed to long tips for one.
 
Bah, decisions decisions..

 

[average_joe]

The Aurisonics impression kit arrived today.  It is a very complete kit that includes three impression mixing kits, oto dams (blocks), an oto probe light for checking the ear before the impression, and a plunger for injecting the impression material.  Also included is a letter from Dale and an instructional booklet resulting in a very well thought out kit.
 
  
   
click on the pictures to enlarge
 
Quote:

 
If I'm going to buy a custom, its going to be around $1000.
1. But LS8 has more treble presence and more extended treble than the JH16 right?
2. does LS8 have as much bass as FX700?
3. how are JH16 and LS8 different?

1. The upper midrange/lower treble peak is larger with the LS8, but the LS8 is smoother so it can get away with it.  Yes, the treble is more extended with the LS8.  The JH16 treble is extended, but there is a dropout point before the treble comes back.
2. I am not sure since I haven't compared the two, but I would say no, not as much sub-bass
3. I compare the two in my JH16 review.
 
Quote:

Thanks, that was quite helpful.
 
Where would you put the Miracles then, or would you say its difficult to answer without getting one custom molded for you?

I'm so torn between trying something else like the NT6 or ES5 or getting a refit. I'm rather worried that if I try something new, I'll run into different problems that the Miracles do not have even if I get a good fit.


I guess the issue is at home. The Miracle seems to be sonically better than my HE-500s on about every level (except maybe soundstage, where the HE-500 is bigger but the Miracle is more natural and precise) except that I reach for the HE-500 every time because it is simply more reliable. The Miracle is like a flighty girlfriend.. gotta treat her with care, pamper her and be incredibly nice so that she'll sing for you. Every facial movement can make me lose seal and cause the sound to be awkward. I want a single CIEM I can live with so I can just sell the HE-500 and have a nice extra chunk of money, which could go into a better DAP or something.
 
I also get the impression that UM doesn't try to mold their IEMs to fit especially firm. They're opposed to long tips for one.
 
Bah, decisions decisions..

I can't say where the Miracles really perform in the grand scheme of things without having them customized for my ears.  And a refit would be cheaper.  I haven't heard the ES5, but the NT-6 should be a good deal different than the Miracle or ES5, more like the UERM.
 
Good luck with your decision.

 

[Mini0510]

Quote:

1. The upper midrange/lower treble peak is larger with the LS8, but the LS8 is smoother so it can get away with it.  Yes, the treble is more extended with the LS8.  The JH16 treble is extended, but there is a dropout point before the treble comes back.
2. I am not sure since I haven't compared the two, but I would say no, not as much sub-bass
3. I compare the two in my JH16 review.

 
So LS8 and FX700 are similar in some ways. In which ways are they similar and which ways are they different?
 
and for the impression kit, can that be used for other custom IEM companies? Would you recommend making the impressions on your own or go to a audiologist?
Im just not sure which audiologist is experienced in Toronto.

 

[Jzbass25]

Hey, I figured this thread may have some people in it that can help. I am deciding on getting some tf10's and reshelling or getting some clear tune cm-200's. Anyone have any opinions on either option? I live in orlando florida btw and it seems like there are a good amount of custom iem companies in this city. In-Earz is only about 15 minutes away from me and they'll do free impressions for a custom remold if I come on down.
 
Also amazing reviews and structure to your review average joe! You are lucky to have some amazing gear, I can only wish my name, Joe, would somehow get me the same collection of headphones haha.

 

[Metalboy]

This looks interesting. Seems to be a 14 driver custom iem that costs a little over 2000$

 
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=1102ckPy.3-41Vk6.h-20zgNf&id=13678015231&

 

[Heret1c]

Quote:

This looks interesting. Seems to be a 14 driver custom iem that costs a little over 2000$

 
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=1102ckPy.3-41Vk6.h-20zgNf&id=13678015231&

Good grief!

 

[piotrus-g]

Quote:

Good grief!

x2