[sphinxvc]

@ OP, what's your philosophy on dacs?  Have you ever tried a dac other than the one in your sound card?  

 

[iHasCake]

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by disastermouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Wait....you're comparing these cans with a $50 amp that no one much seems to like and lacks in obvious ways?
 
Makes the rest of the review a fail.  Sorry.

wait?  so you made you own review with these phones with an amp of your choice and you have the same taste in audio flavor as sugarkang?  is that what you're saying?  link pls?

 
i could have sworn sugarkang posted somewhere that he created this review and warned about his personal bias and taste and preferred equipment somewhere in this thread...

 

[disastermouse]

Quote:

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by disastermouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Wait....you're comparing these cans with a $50 amp that no one much seems to like and lacks in obvious ways?
 
Makes the rest of the review a fail.  Sorry.

wait?  so you made you own review with these phones with an amp of your choice and you have the same taste in audio flavor as sugarkang?  is that what you're saying?  link pls?

 
i could have sworn sugarkang posted somewhere that he created this review and warned about his personal bias and taste and preferred equipment somewhere in this thread...

Yeah, he did.  But his preferences and weird Amp Atheism/Agnosticism is so not useful to most of the community - including me.  Most of us are not amp atheist/agnostic - so I s'pect his review is a fail for most of us.
 
 

 

[ClassicThunder]

Point being there needs to be a huge red disclaimer saying that none of the stuff is properly driven. Instad of claiming that he's got a $50 amp that is equivilent to all your silly elitists $200+ amps.
 
Quote:

Quote:

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by disastermouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Wait....you're comparing these cans with a $50 amp that no one much seems to like and lacks in obvious ways?
 
Makes the rest of the review a fail.  Sorry.

wait?  so you made you own review with these phones with an amp of your choice and you have the same taste in audio flavor as sugarkang?  is that what you're saying?  link pls?

 
i could have sworn sugarkang posted somewhere that he created this review and warned about his personal bias and taste and preferred equipment somewhere in this thread...

Yeah, he did.  But his preferences and weird Amp Atheism/Agnosticism is so not useful to most of the community - including me.  Most of us are not amp atheist/agnostic - so I s'pect his review is a fail for most of us.
 
 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

i could have sworn sugarkang posted somewhere that he created this review and warned about his personal bias and taste and preferred equipment somewhere in this thread...

I agree that he warned us.  However, I think a dash of humility would be nice.  Tyler Durden also said you are not your $50 amp and it is not infallible.  I don't think there's anything agnostic about any of what's been said so far given that OP has been telling people who don't "believe" to get lost.  =/
 
Sounds more like an organized religion.
 
But I'm enjoying the way the review's being written.   "More cowbell"   =D
 
I think the whole Fight Club reference was perfect for Head-fi...
 
"And I wasn't the only slave to my nesting instinct.  The people who used to sit in the bathroom with pornography, now they sit in their bathroom with their laptop on Head-fi."  - Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 3
 
"You buy an amp.  You tell yourself, this is the last amp I will ever need in my life.  Buy the amp, then for a couple years you're satisfied that no matter what goes wrong, at least you've got your amp issue handled.  Then the right set of headphones.  Then the perfect DAC.  The cables.  The power supply.  Then you're trapped in your lovely nest, and the things you used to own, now they own you.  -  Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 5
 

 

[sugarkang]

I'm a broken record at this point.  Quick summary:
1. I am the minority, ergo, you are the majority.  Ergo, this thread is not relevant for you. 
2. Bolsters my original point about price and quality.  $50 amp is bad because it's $50?  That's called a "tautology."
3. No need to be sorry about not liking/trusting/believing my review.  That was well expected and anticipated.  What you and other amp believers should do is read the disclaimer slowly and carefully next time. 
 
Lots of reading comprehension failure going on here.  I understand the need to skim things; we're busy people and maybe you missed it.  Go and read again, or don't.  But if you don't read it, please don't bring up points that I've already addressed.
 
Quote:

Wait....you're comparing these cans with a $50 amp that no one much seems to like and lacks in obvious ways?
 
Makes the rest of the review a fail.  Sorry.

 
 
Prior to this, I owned a Chaintech 710 which had the Wolfson DAC in it.  As far as I know, people still like that card with that DAC even today.  That particular card was purchased to avoid the non-neutral audio outputs from a lot of soundcards being made at the time (2005 or 2006).  I can't A/B that against my Asus because that card is in another computer which is in another country. 
 
My Asus DAC is good.  Here's how I know it's good.  I can compare the lineout on my iPod versus the sound from my ASUS.  The iPod lineout is also a DAC, so don't forget that.  Unless anyone wants to start crapping all over the iPod lineout.... Anyone?   Didn't think so. 
 
I don't really care what other people say unless I can duplicate results myself.  That's called peer review.  It's very odd that I have to defend my position of:  "I don't hear the difference."  Usually, one must prove the existence of something.  Instead, I am asked to prove the non-existence of something.  This is the line of reasoning of faith based healers. 
 
Quote:

@ OP, what's your philosophy on dacs?  Have you ever tried a dac other than the one in your sound card?  

Oh I know all about the vagaries of consumerism.  Mind you, I've been away for 4 years.  After this weekend, I suspect I'll be gone for quite some time again.  I just make purchasing decisions with an unhealthy amount of research.  Once I'm done though, I'm done.

 
Quote:

"You buy an amp.  You tell yourself, this is the last amp I will ever need in my life.  Buy the amp, then for a couple years you're satisfied that no matter what goes wrong, at least you've got your amp issue handled.  Then the right set of headphones.  Then the perfect DAC.  The cables.  The power supply.  Then you're trapped in your lovely nest, and the things you used to own, now they own you.  -  Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 5
 

 

[sugarkang]

Denon rock review up.

 

[Shike]

Quote:

I don't really care what other people say unless I can duplicate results myself. That's called peer review. It's very odd that I have to defend my position of: "I don't hear the difference." Usually, one must prove the existence of something. Instead, I am asked to prove the non-existence of something. This is the line of reasoning of faith based healers.

Yet when I did you got angry and red in the face trying to shout me down without even reading what was wrote.  Even worse you proceed to put paragraphs of words in other peoples' mouths (at least mine).  Heck, I even ran the numbers and found the error which wasn't that great so probably wouldn't be audible unless under scrutiny -- you would know that if you took the time to read.
 
Tell me if you actually get to this sentence*
 
@imademymark
 
At least you read my posts and understood where I was coming from.  I was just saying that the amp may have caused FR error and could have lead to difference in results/perceptions and he went off his rocker.

 

[bisayaboi]

I prefer the Sennheiser mids in my guitar rock more than my bright treble DT880.
 
I enjoy hearing every natural bit, detail, and attack of the guitar with my HD650. I couldn't do that with my DT880. I hear emphasis on cymbals (treble) which honestly does nothing for me.
 
Also great review. I have gained more interest in Denon's now.
 

 

[sugarkang]

This is my last post to you.  Read carefully.  It's very hard for me try and battle everyone disagreeing with me.  If you've noticed, you are not the only one.  And if you go back to my very first post, I said that this thread is for people with my biases, my belief that amps don't matter.
 
Yet, you keep coming in talking about how amps matter.  How much clearer do I need to be?  Amp differences should be clearest when the amps are crappiest.  That means the biggest difference should be audible between my FiiO E5 and my Asus Xonar.  Difference perceptible?  None. 
 
The problem with all your engineering principles is that you didn't bother to check whether you personally can hear the differences with your own ears.  Do you hate double blind testing?  How about YOU buy this crappy amp from Amazon and compare it with ANY amp you have and double blind test yourself.  Why should I buy some stupid expensive amp and test something when I'm not trying to prove anything?  YOU SHOULD HAVE TO PROVE THE DIFFERENCE, NOT ME.  Come back and post your results.  Put your money where your mouth is.  If you can tell a difference, great.  I didn't say there's no difference.  I said there's no difference to me and this review is for people who also feel there's no difference.  I said that I am in the minority, but captain obvious a few posts back deemed it necessary to chime in.
 
I am not angry and I did not get "red faced."  I do find it perplexing at how you people fail time and again at basic reading comprehension though. 
 
 
Quote:

Yet when I did you got angry and red in the face trying to shout me down without even reading what was wrote.  Even worse you proceed to put paragraphs of words in other peoples' mouths (at least mine).  Heck, I even ran the numbers and found the error which wasn't that great so probably wouldn't be audible unless under scrutiny -- you would know that if you took the time to read.
 
Tell me if you actually get to this sentence*

 

[ozron]

I'm loving this thread so far.  I understand how the OP feels, even though I am not a believer.  However I am willing to listen to and consider other points of view.  Interesting how most people feel a need to convert everyone to their view or way of thinking rather than being more open minded and considerate of diversity.  Kind of like the christian missionaries feeling a need to convert the "savages" to christianity...
 
Anyway, looking forward to the rest of the review.  Bring it on!
 
BTW I have a DT-880 (600Ω) and am loving it with my new expensive Audio-GD DAC & amplifier.  

 

[sugarkang]

I think we are in agreement.  After all, I had to EQ the DT-880 down.  This is a problem with that entire Beyer line.  But did you notice that when you roll off the top end, it's pretty similar to the HD-650.  In fact, at bleeding loud levels, I can't tell the difference between the cans.  However, at sort of "comfortable" volume levels, the DT-880 gives a more Grado type feel. 
 
Anyway, the TL;DR version is that I like the DT-880 just a tad more, but the HD-650 doesn't need EQing at all, so it wins. 
 

 
Quote:

I prefer the Sennheiser mids in my guitar rock more than my bright treble DT880.
 
I enjoy hearing every natural bit, detail, and attack of the guitar with my HD650. I couldn't do that with my DT880. I hear emphasis on cymbals (treble) which honestly does nothing for me.
 
Also great review. I have gained more interest in Denon's now.
 

 

[Shike]

EDIT:
 
This is my absolute last response towards you.  I've decided to just skip it and add you to ignore for both our sakes.
-----------------------------
Quote:

This is my last post to you. 
 
Then why should I bother responding when you ask me to post my results?
 
Read carefully.  It's very hard for me try and battle everyone disagreeing with me.  If you've noticed, you are not the only one.  And if you go back to my very first post, I said that this thread is for people with my biases, my belief that amps don't matter.
 
That's not what you said though: you said they do matter, but you need not spend "more than $50 to achieve this", but you're factually wrong if you're going for a wire with gain approach which is what you try (read: struggle) to portrait.  This means that the amp can't clip and must have a low output impedance.  The best case scenario is that you "may" achieve this for under $50 like with the FiiO and higher sensitivity headphones or that the headphones can tolerate the output impedance with minimal deviation (if you read post #24 we wouldn't be having this conversation BTW).
 
Yet, you keep coming in talking about how amps matter.  How much clearer do I need to be?  Amp differences should be clearest when the amps are crappiest.  That means the biggest difference should be audible between my FiiO E5 and my Asus Xonar.  Difference perceptible?  None. 
 
Surprisingly, the FiiO has lower output impedance so wouldn't suffer irregularities.  The only thing you have to worry about is clipping really with the FiiO: no clipping no issue.  So in some cases the FiiO will be BETTER than the Art.
 
Oh, but that goes against your assumption that I suggest $1K amps. 

 
The problem with all your engineering principles is that you didn't bother to check whether you personally can hear the differences with your own ears.  Do you hate double blind testing?  How about YOU buy this crappy amp from Amazon and compare it with ANY amp you have and double blind test yourself.
 
I've done DBT, and while 1dB error is hard to hear it can be done.  Once again, it's obvious you didn't read my posts fully, or have a severe lack of comprehension way past those you criticize.
 
Why should I buy some stupid expensive amp and test something when I'm not trying to prove anything?  YOU SHOULD HAVE TO PROVE THE DIFFERENCE, NOT ME.  Come back and post your results.  Put your money where your mouth is.  If you can tell a difference, great.
 
I've done various DBTs in the past and passed them with statistically significant results.  Why are you so angry about this?
 
  I didn't say there's no difference.  I said there's no difference to me and this review is for people who also feel there's no difference.  I said that I am in the minority, but captain obvious a few posts back deemed it necessary to chime in.
 
FEELING doesn't make it true or factual.  I "feel" the sky is falling today isn't a valid opinion or position to hold.
 
I am not angry and I did not get "red faced."  I do find it perplexing at how you people fail time and again at basic reading comprehension though. 
 
It's obvious you don't even make it to the end of a persons post without making sweeping generalizations and oft arrogant claims as if you know the other person's stance and what they have or have not done in terms of testing.  As such I find you a poor judge of whether our comprehension is sufficient when your attention span leaves much to be desired.
 
Nice try though.

Responses in bold.  I imagine your next post will finally have me drop you on ignore permanently -- nothing to do with your views, but rather your behavior as you're quite frankly arrogant, presumptuous, and factually wrong.

 

[Shike]

Quote:

I'm loving this thread so far.  I understand how the OP feels, even though I am not a believer.  However I am willing to listen to and consider other points of view.  Interesting how most people feel a need to convert everyone to their view or way of thinking rather than being more open minded and considerate of diversity.  Kind of like the christian missionaries feeling a need to convert the "savages" to christianity...
 
Anyway, looking forward to the rest of the review.  Bring it on!

You have this backward.
 
His position is equivalent to the Earth being flat and the sun orbiting it.  Whenever someone shows evidence contrary he screams he's 'free to believe what he wants, we have no evidence, our evidence doesn't show we can hear it, if you can hear it it doesn't matter to me so go away, you all suck and can't read' -- something to that extent.  That's the exact type of attitude he's presented this entire thread from his responses to those that dare question his doctrine in any form or fashion.
 
Sad part of all of this is, had he read post #24 all the way through we'd probably be done with this conversation -- but it seems he doesn't even read a post in its entirety.  Demands respect -- lacks any for others.

 

[Trysaeder]

Someone's calling someone else arrogant and factually wrong.
 
Since it's so easy to measure the difference that amps make on headphones, and it is widely accepted to be 'factually correct', show some.