[willsw]

  For those of us sitting on the sideline, would be helpful to include some pricing information for the full-nelson package - seems we are about to read about.
Regardless, still excited to read impressions!

 
I believe Ben mentioned $3000-$4000 in an email to me regarding the full package - I think this includes the initial $1100 for a standard amp, but I'm not sure. This isn't for-sure info, just what I believe he was referring to. That's also the price range we're shooting for with our next product (not a super MicroZOTL2), though some critical listening tests will determine whether we'll be near the low end or high end of that range. David might have pulled off some magic for this one. And that's all I'll say about that, for a while. 

 

[bazelio]

 

  For those of us sitting on the sideline, would be helpful to include some pricing information for the full-nelson package - seems we are about to read about.
Regardless, still excited to read impressions!

 
I believe Ben mentioned $3000-$4000 in an email to me regarding the full package - I think this includes the initial $1100 for a standard amp, but I'm not sure. This isn't for-sure info, just what I believe he was referring to. That's also the price range we're shooting for with our next product (not a super MicroZOTL2), though some critical listening tests will determine whether we'll be near the low end or high end of that range. David might have pulled off some magic for this one. And that's all I'll say about that, for a while. 

 
 
Hi Will.  Why would listening tests determine product price?

 

[doctorjazz]

My understanding is, it is still in the "testing, 1-2-3" stage. Ben is not sure how much of a change the different upgrades will make, say, the potentiometer may make a huge difference, worth doing, some capacitors that seem worthwhile, may not pan out to be that noticeable, or something like that. He's looking not just to replace EVERYTHING, but to get feedback along the way on what makes a big difference, what change is a very small difference, what isn't noticeable at all, and decide what's worthwhile doing. That is why he's making changes sequentially, and stopping at the different stages and having DrBlue do a listening assessment. Or, at least that's what i get from his posts here earlier (don't have this direct from him).

 

[jelt2359]

Hi Will.  Why would listening tests determine product price?

I thought he meant "Low" or "high end" of being in the range of a Super mzotl2.

That being said I do prefer the sound to determine price rather than costs, because that aligns more closely with what I value. With costs- sometimes you're paying more for the fancy faceplate or the "incredible build quality" than the sound.

 

[willsw]

   
 
Hi Will.  Why would listening tests determine product price?

 
It would determine which circuit we would use, one of which may sound as good or better than the other and require fewer parts and less labor. If it does not, though, we'll want to go with the better sounding, if more expensive, solution. And if that doesn't sound good enough, we'll figure out another route.
 
If the best sound is less expensive, we're happier because we can price it lower. 
 
Regarding DoctorJazz's explanation, I think that essentially applies to what we're doing, though is a more accurate description of what Ben is doing. 

 

[zachawry]

   
 
Hi Will.  Why would listening tests determine product price?

Why wouldn't they? 
 

 

 

[willsw]

After in-house and out-of-house testing, we've decided that it's worthwhile to offer the current production Genalex Gold Lion 12AT7 as an upgrade available at ordering and available to current MicroZOTL2 owners at a price equivalent to the option having been available when they ordered their amps. I've found the Gold Lions to be less bright and feel a bit more detailed than the Tung-sols, and we're now using all Genalex Gold Lion tubes in our ZOTL10 (EL-84s, 12AT7s, 12AU7s) and will soon use them for the 12AU7 and 12AX7 spots in the ZOTL40.
 
I'll send an email alert and post here when we have the tubes in stock and the option up on the website. We're also waiting on the boards in order to be able to offer the closed-circuit headphone jack, that will disconnect the speaker and preamp outputs when a headphone is plugged in. We made it retrofittable, so if you're comfortable soldering we can send you the parts, or you can ship your amp back to us for installation, if you'd like to change out your locking jack. I'm personally very excited to leave my speakers hooked up.

 

[drbluenewmexico]

My understanding is, it is still in the "testing, 1-2-3" stage. Ben is not sure how much of a change the different upgrades will make, say, the potentiometer may make a huge difference, worth doing, some capacitors that seem worthwhile, may not pan out to be that noticeable, or something like that. He's looking not just to replace EVERYTHING, but to get feedback along the way on what makes a big difference, what change is a very small difference, what isn't noticeable at all, and decide what's worthwhile doing. That is why he's making changes sequentially, and stopping at the different stages and having DrBlue do a listening assessment. Or, at least that's what i get from his posts here earlier (don't have this direct from him).

thats essentially correct, IMHO...

 

[zachawry]

  After in-house and out-of-house testing, we've decided that it's worthwhile to offer the current production Genalex Gold Lion 12AT7 as an upgrade available at ordering and available to current MicroZOTL2 owners at a price equivalent to the option having been available when they ordered their amps. I've found the Gold Lions to be less bright and feel a bit more detailed than the Tung-sols, and we're now using all Genalex Gold Lion tubes in our ZOTL10 (EL-84s, 12AT7s, 12AU7s) and will soon use them for the 12AU7 and 12AX7 spots in the ZOTL40.
 
I'll send an email alert and post here when we have the tubes in stock and the option up on the website. We're also waiting on the boards in order to be able to offer the closed-circuit headphone jack, that will disconnect the speaker and preamp outputs when a headphone is plugged in. We made it retrofittable, so if you're comfortable soldering we can send you the parts, or you can ship your amp back to us for installation, if you'd like to change out your locking jack. I'm personally very excited to leave my speakers hooked up.

That's great to hear. You should totally play up the fact that you can use the same setup for either headphones or speakers. 
 
I'm not sure if it's worth it for me to ship all the way back to and from Japan, though. 
 
(Also, I appreciate your solution for avoiding saying "outhouse testing". 

 )

 

[doctorjazz]

What's wrong with "outhouse testing"? Do my best work...

 

[willsw]

 
That's great to hear. You should totally play up the fact that you can use the same setup for either headphones or speakers. 
 
I'm not sure if it's worth it for me to ship all the way back to and from Japan, though. 
 
(Also, I appreciate your solution for avoiding saying "outhouse testing". 

 )

 
 

What's wrong with "outhouse testing"? Do my best work...

 
 
There was definitely outhouse testing involved. What else are headphone extension cords for?

 

[Bu11dog]

  After in-house and out-of-house testing, we've decided that it's worthwhile to offer the current production Genalex Gold Lion 12AT7 as an upgrade available at ordering and available to current MicroZOTL2 owners at a price equivalent to the option having been available when they ordered their amps. I've found the Gold Lions to be less bright and feel a bit more detailed than the Tung-sols, and we're now using all Genalex Gold Lion tubes in our ZOTL10 (EL-84s, 12AT7s, 12AU7s) and will soon use them for the 12AU7 and 12AX7 spots in the ZOTL40.
 
I'll send an email alert and post here when we have the tubes in stock and the option up on the website. We're also waiting on the boards in order to be able to offer the closed-circuit headphone jack, that will disconnect the speaker and preamp outputs when a headphone is plugged in. We made it retrofittable, so if you're comfortable soldering we can send you the parts, or you can ship your amp back to us for installation, if you'd like to change out your locking jack. I'm personally very excited to leave my speakers hooked up.

This is great news, I have been waiting for the closed-circuit headphone jack.  Please let us know when this will be available.

 

[doctorjazz]

Will this be off much benefit if you only use ZOTL as a headphone amp?

 

[willsw]

Will this be off much benefit if you only use ZOTL as a headphone amp?

Not unless you hate the locking mechanism or the red tab. The locking jack is of slightly more robust build (neither jack is likely to fail in our lifetime), but, no, all you'd gain is having a jack that looked different and didn't lock.

 

[jamato8]

Not unless you hate the locking mechanism or the red tab. The locking jack is of slightly more robust build (neither jack is likely to fail in our lifetime), but, no, all you'd gain is having a jack that looked different and didn't lock.

Maybe he meant the wiring option. Less wire less RF and EMI. I have used the locking jacks myself in the past but decided I don't like them. They are just an extra step and sometimes I have accidentally pulled on the cable, getting up and with a regular socket, the jack pull out, of course this doesn't happen with the locking.