[scrypt]

I don't agree that short sentences equal good writing. There is nothing inherently wrong with serpentine syntax; long sentences can be beautiful and effective in ways that short sentences cannot. De Quincey and Henry James mastered the long sentence to great advantage -- though, admittedly, they did so too well too often.

Style is rhythm, therefore monotony's the enemy. I have the same problem with George Bernard Shaw as with Henry James: Too much of a good thing. James lulls you into a coma by dragging endless ethereal veils across your face, while Shaw pummels you with short phrases until you feel woozy and punch-drunk.

That's why Yeats's prose is often said to strike the perfect balance. He reels you in with a long and sinuous sentence, then caps the thought with a pithy and resonant aphorism: "We love only the perfect, and our dreams make all things perfect, that we may love them."

Incidently, being difficult to read isn't always a problem unless you're a journalist or popular novelist. The ideal of transparent prose is but one among many. Most poetry would not exist if brevity and clarity were the only acceptable stylistic considerations. The syntax of critic Walter Pater was so difficult that even scholars complained, yet his style was gorgeous. Oscar Wilde, prodigy of the short sentence, dubbed Pater an Epicurean and genius of English prose.

Another word people like to use instead of *transparent* is *objective*. The so-called objective style of the 80s was rejected in the 90s by florid writers like David Foster Wallace.
I'd argue that both styles have their place.

Another thing to keep in mind: English is not a perfect language and so cannot be written perfectly, as can Latin-based languages such as French, Italian and Spanish. Therefore it's best to write logically and be aware of the various conventions and tendencies in English rather than to observe some rigid and imposed idea of sentence length.

My pieces for various New York publications have been filled with long sentences and, so far, no editor has complained. My piece in the NY Press about Thomas Lovell Beddoes is an example of my less-than-pugilistic syntax: It would have been obscene to write pithy and punishing sentences about a Romantic poet.

Personally, I'm a fan of writing that is musical and logical. My favorite writing manual has always been _The Reader over Your Shoulder_, by Robert Graves and Alan Hodges.

I find it more important to have a sense of rhythm when writing than to simply keep things short. I want to feel the flow, as in in Melville -- that most oceanic of writers -- not tap out some Morse code sing-song.

Anyway.

No disrespect to anyone else's education or preference in manuals. I only wanted to point out there was some basis for Andrew's confusion, just as there were reasons for his teachers' emphasis on writing that was not breathless (read: short-winded).

And I do appreciate the list of recommendations by the earlier poster. It is always nice to discover a few more useful books.

 

[eric343]

Hehe, I don't mind long sentences, really; the more clauses, sub-clauses, and all that that they have the more impressed an English teacher gets - unless of course, you muck it up, which becomes exponentially easier and therefore more likely the longer the sentence gets, and you have to watch out for misplaced, dangling, two-way, or otherwise confused modifiers and pronoun/antecedent conflicts - believe it or not, they're surprisingly easy to do and you need to have someone else read over the essay in question because your brain will just fill in the correction and you won't notice it, but your English teacher will - though we generally don't care about that kind of really detailed anal-retentive stuff on the board, as long as it's written in English and is reasonably coherent (Terry Pratchett fans, the Bursar is NOT a good example here unless you have some dried frog pills) we generally don't mind too badly, and chances are you'll find your writing becomes more coherent the more Head-Fiying you do, since most people here tend to type or write reasonably well and it rubs off, I guess, since I think even Tuberoller is using spaces between the period and the beginning of the next sentence, and Scrypt's posts don't require a dictionary as much as they used to, though I don't laugh out loud as often - whether that's a benefit, I'm not sure, since I often read Head-Fi in the computer lab or library.

Whew.

 

[shivohum]

Thanks for the review, andrejzpw, and nice work on the amp!

 

[00940]

Quote:

Originally posted by scrypt Another thing to keep in mind: English is not a perfect language and so cannot be written perfectly, as can Latin-based languages such as French, Italian and Spanish.

Hooo, it could be an useful quote for my english teacher

 

[scrypt]

Actually, my writing hasn't changed. I simply don't pull out all the stops for this particular web board. Don't forget that we live in anti-intellectual times. There would be something criminal in my succumbing entirely to certain individuals' pressure to dumb things down.

But it's a testament to Head-fi's friendliness that I wrote here naturally and unguardedly in the first place.

Then, too, with the death of Tweertinelle, you have only Scrypt. And Tweertinelle is another aspect of my personality.

But you shouldn't praise the eradication of idiosyncrasies in a writer because, often, their personality is vanishing before your ears. People who criticize others' writing thoughtlessly often fail to realize they're stifling someone else's voice. Repeatedly typing "I don't understand them big words!" or "Damn, another trip to the Thesaurus!" is a form of anti-intellectual snobbery. I say, leave other people's writing alone unless they ask. Ridicule is unproductive. A lot of people here write badly, but I would only make their writing worse by pointing that out in public.

Head-fi posters are certainly literate, but I did grow up in the care of a lot of excellent (and famous) writers. Whose writing advice would you take, Katherine Dunn's or a very literate sixteen-year-old's (who had just bought a fresh set of headphones)? My aunt, who taught me poetic forms when I was a child, is a prize-winnning poet. I see published novelists all the time socially and critically. My best friend is also one of the best writers I know. An ex, whose legs are on the cover of my last book, translated Nietzsche's last letters for Amok Press and edited a literary magazine at the time when I knew her. Do you really think I need to come here for stylistic pointers?

The truth is, my posting here is a form of procrastination. I have writing projects I should be doing, ones that would be far more rewarding career-wise than discussing headphones with fellow enthusiasts, and yet I dawdle. If you truly loved me, you'd kick me the hell out of this place. (And now that you hate me for what I've said in this post, you probably will.)

Anyway. Enough about me. Please let's get back to Andrew's excellent amp (which I could never build) and informative review.

 

[andrzejpw]

Quote:

Please let's get back to Andrew's excellent amp

You mean Andrzej's, right?

I took the SATs last Saturday, there was a very interesting essay on grammer usage in the Reading comprehension part. Unfortunatly, I don't remember the author or title, but what the author basically said was that grammer is only a guideline. It shouldn't stifle or limit you in expressing your ideas.

 

[eric343]

Quote:

Originally posted by scrypt Whose writing advice would you take, Katherine Dunn's or a very literate sixteen-year-old's (who had just bought a fresh set of headphones)? My aunt, who taught me poetic forms when I was a child, is a prize-winnning poet. I see published novelists all the time socially and critically. My best friend is also one of the best writers I know. An ex, whose legs are on the cover of my last book, translated Nietzsche's last letters for Amok Press and edited a literary magazine at the time when I knew her. Do you really think I need to come here for stylistic pointers?

Quote:

But you shouldn't praise the eradication of idiosyncrasies in a writer because, often, their personality is vanishing before your ears.

Hrm

I suppose I simply wasn't thinking when I wrote that - I was thinking of examples where people's writing had changed, and automatically assumed that meant improved.
Because the thing is, I really enjoyed your 'Tweertinelle' posts, to the degree that I'd click through to a forum if I saw in the front page that you had last post in that forum, just to read the (almost always hilarious) commentary.
Quote:

People who criticize others' writing thoughtlessly often fail to realize they're stifling someone else's voice. Repeatedly typing "I don't understand them big words!" or "Damn, another trip to the Thesaurus!" is a form of anti-intellectual snobbery. I say, leave other people's writing alone unless they ask. Ridicule is unproductive. A lot of people here write badly, but I would only make their writing worse by pointing that out in public.

Well, I think that we didn't mean those comments seriously - I know I didn't mean to imply your writing is too intellectual or filled with words found usually only in thesauri, I just didn't have much better to say but wanted to say something funny because I was already laughing.

In any case, consider this a sincere apology.

Quote:

Head-fi posters are certainly literate, but I did grow up in the care of a lot of excellent (and famous) writers. Whose writing advice would you take, Katherine Dunn's or a very literate sixteen-year-old's (who had just bought a fresh set of headphones)?

That's fifteen year old, who's planning to buy a pair of headphones, my friend

Quote:

The truth is, my posting here is a form of procrastination. I have writing projects I should be doing, ones that would be far more rewarding career-wise than discussing headphones with fellow enthusiasts, and yet I dawdle. If you truly loved me, you'd kick me the hell out of this place.

Same here. I have finals to study for... See ya!

 

[scrypt]

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrzej You mean Andrzej's, right?

Southern Baptist Crinoles, I really did mean to type Andrzej before my western digits, et al., defenestrated themselves. Problem was, I received a call from a crony in mid-post and had to exit post haste. Seems said Mr. Buddie needed his Jaguar discs before jetting to Australia the next day. He was also leaving in an hour to enjoy a lewd interlude that night. I hadn't returned his discs in a month, so I wasn't in a position to object. I ran over to his digs, listened to Ritchie Hawtin with him, echoed his annoyance at friends' inability to understand why pro engineers and players would like minimal techno, then left for a rather less lewd interlude o' my own.

Quote:

Originally posted by eric343 I suppose I simply wasn't thinking when I wrote that - I was thinking of examples where people's writing had changed, and automatically assumed that meant improved. Because the thing is, I really enjoyed your 'Tweertinelle' posts, to the degree that I'd click through to a forum if I saw in the front page that you had last post in that forum, just to read the (almost always hilarious) commentary.

I, too, was typing hastily, or I wouldn't have invited certain drum-roll-on-chest-producing brassy-cravat-wearing statements into the cramped apartment that was my post (if you ken my cavern): The pompous list of accomplishments and writing friends, for example. And although I was fairly careful not to cast aspersions on talented teens, my parallel between K. Dunn and, say, Strapping Young Mr. Flasken, could be taken the wrong way and I'd normally have finessed that better. The people on my mother's side are mostly English and high school teachers and I hate saying anything condescending about the abilities of teenagers, who can be as brilliant as anyone else. I was only saying that gifted, non-competitive professional writers would be my first choice for feedback.

But even in the case of pros, you have to be careful. People tend to over-criticize whatever makes them feel threatened. And again, some writers are so gifted, quick or quirky that other writers' advice would only damage them in the long run.

Quote:

Well, I think that we didn't mean those comments seriously - I know I didn't mean to imply your writing is too intellectual or filled with words found usually only in thesauri, I just didn't have much better to say but wanted to say something funny because I was already laughing.

Eric, you and I have corresponded a bit, so I do think I understand your intentions. I have never been offended by anything you've said. I was merely prodding out that many *other* people on Head-fi give me a hard time about my vocabulary and do use the word thesaurus. I also get endearing but frustrating messages from kids who don't understand what I'm talking about. I'm fairly used to those.

And here's the other reason I often play it straight: People who don't know me on Head-fi sometimes misunderstand my joking tone and think I'm trying to insult them. That doesn't happen when I write articles or short stories, but it is something to avoid on web boards and in e-mails to relative strangers. My first exchange with MacDEF degenerated into a quote-lobbing tuff-off because he didn't understand (or I didn't make clear) he was being funned.

Anyway.

You and Andrzej are two of my favorite people in these parts (or fave parts of people), so I meant no roughage, Madam. And now I must return to my gender differentiation exams.

 

[Gariver]

Scrypt: Columbia University has the world's largest collection of Piranesi etchings. You must ask permission to view these. However, if you tell them you are doing research on Piranesi, you will be granted that permission. Just call CU Architecture Library for the details. It is worth the effort! Believe me, it is thrilling to have several Piranesis right in front of you! It is an experience you will never forget!

Andrzejpw: That sentence saying that grammar is only a guideline for the writer is true. However, I must add this: With the proper guidelines, your own writing style flourishes!

More info on Rudolf Flesch...

Rudolf Flesch, an Austrian lawyer, emmigrated to the US right after World War II. All he had when he arrived in New York City was his education. Within 5 years, he had a Columbia PhD, a prestigious position teaching at Columbia and a few best selling books. Thus, he achieved the American Dream of prestige, wealth and fame at an incredibly fast pace.

Flesch great idea was to use the Scientific Method on the books of the best writers of the English language. Who were these writers? Flesch studied writers that had either won the Pulitzer Prize or had acquired fame as novelists. Therefore, his writing system is "a posteriori" (after the fact) in nature! He does NOT impose his own style on his readers. What he recommends is a writing style that has been extracted from many great writers. That's why his books became bestsellers! To this day, no one has sold more books on writing than Rudolf Flesch. Nobody comes close.

 

[scrypt]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gariver Script: Columbia University has the world's largest collection of Piranesi etchings. You must ask permission to view these. However, if you tell them you are doing research on Piranesi, you will be granted that permission. Just call CU Architecture Library for the details. It is worth the effort! Believe me, it is thrilling to have several Piranesis right in front of you! It is an experience you will never forget!

Gariver: Always nice to meet a fellow Piranesi enthusiast. Perhaps I'll take you up on the Columbia collection (if I can get someone to pay me for an article on the subject). Thanks for the tip. I'm intending to go to Belgium next year to look at paintings by Fernand Khnopff.

I'd be amazed if your sense of beauty and culture were due solely to your studies at Columbia. Was your primary education in some other country than the States? If so, perhaps you were fortunate to have had the best of both worlds.

Perhaps you'd be interested in my essay in an anthology of writing about poetry: _An Exaltation of Forms_, ed. by Annie Finch (U. of Michigan Press). A lot of Pulitzer winners are in that collection and I take issue with one of them in my essay. But what I thought might interest you is the subject: musical rhythm versus the rhythm of written English.

My best friend always reassures me that my knowledge of classical composition is as important to my prose as thorough training in Latin, Greek and Spanish are to his. If that's true, perhaps you can relate. I discuss poetic meter and musical notation in depth in my essay.

The name is Scrypt, BTW, not Script. It's a pun on *script* and *crypt* and foregrounds the necropolis of language and the curse of the cursive.

And I do understand your advocacy of Columbia. One of the best editors I know has a degree in literature from there. His punctuation and usage are perhaps the best I've ever seen (by a working editor).

Still, it is worth noting that his writing can be rather difficult and long-winded (but in a good way).

Carry on. See you later.

And by the way: The prize I'd have liked to win was a young Roxanne Pulitzer.

 

[gdahl]

Scrypt,

I really enjoy your writing!

 

[Gariver]

Scrypt:

I just checked. Columbia's Avery Architectural and Fine Arts Library has 23 Piranesis (1720-1778). I got the info at the link below. That link also has Avery Library's address and telephone number. Now you have no excuses to go there and see the Piranesis, a highly recommended experience!

Avery Library is the world's largest architectural library. In its vaults there's a lot of very interesting stuff. It is one of the reasons I rave about Columbia so much. Do you want to look at original Frank Lloyd Wright plans? Avery has them. The question then is: Which one do you want to see? This, of course, floors me! Avery is simply loaded with stuff to see. It's an amazing place!!!

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/indiv/avery/about.html

On Columbia and NYC...
Columbia University is not a university per se. It is a grouping of graduate schools offering masters and doctorate degrees. The university itself is very, very small and in a little corner of the campus. Actually, Columbia was the first university to institute graduate courses with the appropiate degrees. That was a wonderful "first!" Needless to say, I did enjoy my three years at Columbia.

Why not? It's a West Side Story! I mean, there are many Puerto Ricans in Manhattan. So I could go to Puerto Rican restaurants, grocery stores, theaters, art galleries, record shops and nightclubs. I never lacked in that respect. Thus, I really feel at home in Nueva York. Oops...New York City, that is! It is the best big city in the world! Culture galore! Love it!

OK, Scrypt! You are curious! Unsatisfied curiosity is a burden for the mind. So I will comply with your request for a short bio. What follows will answer your "hows" and "whys."

Eduction: I studied in Puerto Rico and the USA, not Europe...
--Worcester Academy in MA (last 2 years of high school).
--John Carroll University--a small Jesuit university in Cleveland.
--Columbia--Master's in Architecture (3 years/125 credits for the degree).

BTW, Cole Porter, America's foremost composer, studied at Worcester Academy. So did the Warner Brothers of Hollywood fame.

On my parents and my neighbors...
Both of my parents were 1st in class, valedictorians at the University of Puerto Rico. They were both avid readers who associated themselves with like minded people. My father, a successful and charismatic trial lawyer, was knighted twice by Spain. So he was a magnet for all sorts of interesting people.

Thus, I grew up in a very intellectual neighborhood: Miramar, PR. I was surrounded by lawyers, doctors, artists, writers and university professors. Here's a few of my famous neighbors: Mrs Rosen, the grandaughter of Charles Darwin, Jose Ferrer, the actor who won an Oscar for Cyranno, and Juan Ramon Jimenez, Nobel Prize in Literature. Juan Ramon was my 1st writing teacher. "Don't try to be erudite in your writing. Simple sentences are the best!" Ha...just like Flesch! Anyway, I do recommend that you read his best book: Platero y yo (Platero and I). You will love it!

On Flesch again...
Here's a short bibliography of Flesch's books. I suggest that you buy the books in that order. If you can only buy one book, buy the 1st. It's been going strong for 50 years, and it will be around 100 years from now. It is indeed a classic!

The Classic Guide to Better Writing.
The Art of Readable Writing.
How to Write, Speak and Think More Effectively.
The Classic Guide to Concise Writing.

Postscript...
I got to travel to Europe many, many times, and I did learn quite a bit on those trips. esp with regards to architecture and art. I always flew on Trans World Airlines with Triple-A tickets. For example, I used to pay only $243.00 for round trip tickets from Puerto Rico to Paris via NYC. Amazingly cheap! Moral of the story: It pays to befriend people that work for the airlines! Ha!

Good luck with all this info!