[Giogio]

With quite a lot of hours listening now and some A/B comparisons on a number of varied test tracks I feel my initial impressions were pretty justified. Soundstage is definitely smaller on the AKG'S probably due to the shorter distance between ear and driver (one of the reasons the UE9000 look so goofy on my head-they stick out so far!) Bass is much tighter and less boomy on the AKG'S but is still more than adequate (how anyone could describe them as bass light is quite bewildering to me?) The only feasible explanation I can come up with is fit which like the K550's is essential for decent bass response. The treble and detail retrieval at the top end is superior to the UE9000 but this comes at a bit of a cost in the midrange. A good example if this would be Adele's vocals which sound a bit flat and one dimensional with the AKG'S in comparison to the UE9000 on which every breath and sinew of her vocal chords seem evident (More like listening to her sing live in a small intimate gig than hearing a recording. This wasn't apparent with all vocals though. The Kings of Leon "pickup truck" seemed to benefit from the higher resolution at the top end with the subtle cracks and raspiness of his voice. Anyway, I'm definitely considering these as a replacement to my UE9000 at the moment. Watch this space.
Edit: Just a couple of other things I forgot in my original post. The AKG'S sound almost the same when wired which is not true of the UE9000 which are like two different headphones imo. This has been observed as a positive by many UE9000 users as the sound wired is described as more audiophile (ie to have a flatter frequency response) However, to me listening wired to Bluetooth headphones seems to invalidate the whole reason for buying them (in my case on the go convenience). I suppose if they were your only headphones it might be nice to listen wored through an amp at home for a different experience. The controls on the UE9000 are also superior to the AKG as they operate perfectly with my Android phone including double and triple click to forward and backward skip tracks. The AKG do not have this feature which means taking out your phone to skip track (a major oversight on AKG'S part if you ask me) I also miss the listen over feature of the UE9000 which pauses the music and opens the mics at the press of a button in order to hear a person speaking. WhY more headphone manufacturers don't include this evades me as I find it a right pita to remove the headphones or pause the music when someone talks to you.

I have described them as one of the more bass lacking BT headphones on the market.
I may be a bit basshead.
Or may have been influenced by the other BT Headphones I was comparing them with, side by side.
The UE, I think, I got them later, so I do not think I have compared them side by side with the AKG, but the Fidelio M2BT yes for sure.
And the Fidelio I have compared them side by side with the UE and found them almost identical sounding, almost a clone of the UE, but with more highs (which are not of the quality of the AKG anyway).
Maybe the bass of the Fidelio is a tiny bit less powerful than the UE, eventually.
So, having the Fidelio (or UE) side by side with the AKG, I felt that the AKG had no bass at all.
I suppose that it may also depend on which music you listen to?
DO you test them with Techno, EDM, Heavy bassed Hip Hop, Dubstep, Hard Style?
Because when I want to test headphones on the low frequencies I use mostly that kind of music, and I felt that listening to that kind of bass oriented music with the Akg was like reading a recipe when you are hungry.
I had to imagine the bass, I could not FEEL it.
 
So, I never said the AKG are bad.
But the first thing I have thought when you wanted them as replacement for the UE was that you were trying to replace a pornostar with a shy teacher of history, and I was afraid you could not enjoy.
Or, on another kind of example, you were trying to replace pizza with sushi.
Both are good, but, they have just nothing to do with each other and when I crave for pizza I cannot be satisfied with sushi.
 
So, you are surpised that anybody could describe the AKG as bass lacking.
I am surprised that you can seriously find them a substitute of the completely different sounding UE9000.
 
SO I am curious now: which music do you listen to, and, do you tend to leave the EQ flat, or do you boost something?

 

[lawrecedent]

I have described them as one of the more bass lacking BT headphones on the market.
I may be a bit basshead.
Or may have been influenced by the other BT Headphones I was comparing them with, side by side.
The UE, I think, I got them later, so I do not think I have compared them side by side with the AKG, but the Fidelio M2BT yes for sure.
And the Fidelio I have compared them side by side with the UE and found them almost identical sounding, almost a clone of the UE, but with more highs (which are not of the quality of the AKG anyway).
Maybe the bass of the Fidelio is a tiny bit less powerful than the UE, eventually.
So, having the Fidelio (or UE) side by side with the AKG, I felt that the AKG had no bass at all.
I suppose that it may also depend on which music you listen to?
DO you test them with Techno, EDM, Heavy bassed Hip Hop, Dubstep, Hard Style?
Because when I want to test headphones on the low frequencies I use mostly that kind of music, and I felt that listening to that kind of bass oriented music with the Akg was like reading a recipe when you are hungry.
I had to imagine the bass, I could not FEEL it.

So, I never said the AKG are bad.
But the first thing I have thought when you wanted them as replacement for the UE was that you were trying to replace a pornostar with a shy teacher of history, and I was afraid you could not enjoy.
Or, on another kind of example, you were trying to replace pizza with sushi.
Both are good, but, they have just nothing to do with each other and when I crave for pizza I cannot be satisfied with sushi.

So, you are surpised that anybody could describe the AKG as bass lacking.
I am surprised that you can seriously find them a substitute of the completely different sounding UE9000.

SO I am curious now: which music do you listen to, and, do you tend to leave the EQ flat, or do you boost something?

I'm not a huge fan of modern EDM but did A/B test them with a few tracks that I would consider bass heavy such as Gorillaz "Stylo" and "Feel good inc"
Missy Elliott "Bomb intro/pass the dutch" and The Beastie Boys "make some noise" and " triple trouble" and Katy B "Katy on a mission". With all these tracks the bass is very prominent but crucially does not bleed into the mids (get boomy) in anyway On the AKG'S.

 

[Giogio]

I'm not a huge fan of modern EDM but did A/B test them with a few tracks that I would consider bass heavy such as Gorillaz "Stylo" and "Feel good inc"
Missy Elliott "Bomb intro/pass the dutch" and The Beastie Boys "make some noise" and " triple trouble" and Katy B "Katy on a mission". With all these tracks the bass is very prominent but crucially does not bleed into the mids (get boomy) in anyway On the AKG'S.

about the quality of the bass of the AKG I agree, it was clean, precise, controlled.
But, about the extension of it, quantitatively in the spectrum of frequency, and in the possibility of boosting its loudness increasing the db with an EQ to make dubstep sound like dubstep is supposed to sound, the Akg suck to me.
The bass is very limited to the mid bass and upper bass, but lacks almost completely sub bass (which is exactly where the UE excel).
And one thing I remember that shocked me was that in that moment I had the Samsung Level over with me too, which also for me lack bass a lot, specially out of the box. But at least with the Samsung I could EQ them till reaching a decent loudness of bass. The extention was not so big, sub bass was also poor, and the punch was not very good. But the loudness was better.
While in the AKG I was boosting the EQ at max, +15db, and NOTHING was happening. It was like if the EQ was off.
 
Now, in my opinion, a good headphone should be able to be boosted in loudness without distortion, and should be well extended in the range of frequency and be able to render well all.
The AKG have a hole in the sub bass and a hole in the mids and low mids (which makes them a bit cold), and a limit in the loudness potential.
 
This is how I remember them.
What are your  thoughts?

 

[lawrecedent]

I never eq anything to try and be as faithful to the original recording as possible which is probably why we differ in our opinions over bass quantity. The sub bass is definitely deeper on the UE9000 and overall I think I do prefer their sound. However, I'm thinking, probably not enough to keep them as the AKG just seem like a much better looking portable package.

 

[Giogio]

I of course respect your opinion, which is not only yours because many people also think like that, but I disagree.
Everybody has got different psychoacustic characteristics, and perceive the same sound differently. On top of that, each headphone is very different in the quantitative (sound signature) and qualitative (sound quality) rendering of sound/frequencies.
And each source also.
And, then also the encoding of the file changes things (unless you only use max quality mp3 or flac).
But putting aside the kind of file used, just even the headphone used will change the sound of that song. So, which headphone is giving the REAL sound which the producers of that song have worked on?
A balanced one? No. Not for hip hop, not for techno, not for dubstep.
A v-shaped? A warm?
None.
Because no single headphone (as far as I know) can, without EQ, bring to life every kind of music as it is supposed to sound.
Without considering detail and soundstage.
But also without talking of genres, even concentrating on ONE single song, each Headphone will make it sound completely different. Even among the "neutral" headphones there are not two who will give the same sound.
And then, your ears. Same song, same headphone, two people. They ear different things.
So, EQ is good to tune headphones to your ears, very important imo.
And to tune it to make it able to reproduce better the different kind of music.
 
Said this, if you find one headphone which you think it can, without EQ, reproduce every kind of music exactly the way its composers wanted it to sound, please let me know.
 
AH, edit: how do you find the loudness? Because I remember that the AKG were not able to get loud as most other can.
Which in some situation can be a problem, considering that they do not isolate well.
And also because such big drivers need more volume to get lively.

 

[lawrecedent]

I find the v

I of course respect your opinion, which is not only yours because many people also think like that, but I disagree.
Everybody has got different psychoacustic characteristics, and perceive the same sound differently. On top of that, each headphone is very different in the quantitative (sound signature) and qualitative (sound quality) rendering of sound/frequencies.
And each source also.
And, then also the encoding of the file changes things (unless you only use max quality mp3 or flac).
But putting aside the kind of file used, just even the headphone used will change the sound of that song. So, which headphone is giving the REAL sound which the producers of that song have worked on?
A balanced one? No. Not for hip hop, not for techno, not for dubstep.
A v-shaped? A warm?
None.
Because no single headphone (as far as I know) can, without EQ, bring to life every kind of music as it is supposed to sound.
Without considering detail and soundstage.
But also without talking of genres, even concentrating on ONE single song, each Headphone will make it sound completely different. Even among the "neutral" headphones there are not two who will give the same sound.
And then, your ears. Same song, same headphone, two people. They ear different things.
So, EQ is good to tune headphones to your ears, very important imo.
And to tune it to make it able to reproduce better the different kind of music.

Said this, if you find one headphone which you think it can, without EQ, reproduce every kind of music exactly the way its composers wanted it to sound, please let me know.

AH, edit: how do you find the loudness? Because I remember that the AKG were not able to get loud as most other can.
Which in some situation can be a problem, considering that they do not isolate well.
And also because such big drivers need more volume to get lively.

I just don't find eq on my phone very effective. I have tried to overcome sound limitations in some cans but have never been satisfied with the results. I guess at the moment I don't really have any bass monster phones so have become much more accustomed to a tight controlled bass sound over a club type sound. Dont get me wrong, I used to love throbbing bass but I guess my tastes have changed over time. My current home setup is the Sennheiser HD700 which are not a pounding Bass centric listen. By far and away the bassiest headphones I ever owned where the Audio Technica ATH-WS99. They had an insane amount of bass but still reveled plenty of detail at the top end. Definitely worth a shot if that's your bag.
The volume gets plenty loud enough with the AKG'S through Note 3. I felt at full volume that I wouldn't want to be listening for too long without damaging my hearing.

 

[Giogio]

It's funny that you mention the ATH-WS99.
Because I wanted to suggest you trying the ATH-WS99BT.
Which are my favourite BT Headphone in this moment.
If you already like the wired version (which I have never tried) the chances that you will like its BT version are big.
For my tastes the BT version needs some subtractive EQ on low mids.
And this is another thing I wanted to ask you: which phone do you have and which player do you use?
And which kind of EQ settings do you try?
I have an Android phone where I use Neutron as player, and although its 4 band Parametric EQ is a bit limited in possibilities compared to a more band EQ, at least it is Parametric and if you learn how to use it it gives great results.
And the quality of sound of Neutron is impressive.
But something which I have learned lately (and which works better if you have loud headphones and a player with good quality and with a gain control) is that the subtractive EQ works better than boosting.
So, if you miss more highs, try to reduce all the rest before boosting highs.
Or find a compromise, boost less highs and reduce a bit the rest (which is what I do).
 
Seriously, get a ATH-WS99BT. The bass is impressive, and as you said, it is unbelievable how good they perform in all frequencies while the Bass is boosted (yes, I boost the bass in them too, a bit for normal music, and a lot for dubstep).
Really good hardware and design.
The UE and Fidelio are also able to still give good mids and highs when the bass is boosted. The H8 too.
But the ATH lead the way.

 

[Giogio]

May I ask you a favor?
Could you measure the earpads of the AKG, in mm, outer and inner diameter, and thickness?
Somebody told me 23mm thick but then somebody else told me 3/4" which is 19mm.
Because, as we are talking of the ATH, the problem there is the thin pads, given that the driver has a pronounced dome form which protrudes 8mm from the driver borders, and the earpads are only 20mm thick, so that the ears have only 12mm space and most people have the ears touching the drivers.
Me too.
So I am desperately looking for replacements pads, and before I surrender to buying the oval Hm5 I would like to find a round one.
But must be max 85mm large (80 better), min 45 inside, and min 23mm thick (25 or more is better).

 

[lawrecedent]

May I ask you a favor?
Could you measure the earpads of the AKG, in mm, outer and inner diameter, and thickness?
Somebody told me 23mm thick but then somebody else told me 3/4" which is 19mm.
Because, as we are talking of the ATH, the problem there is the thin pads, given that the driver has a pronounced dome form which protrudes 8mm from the driver borders, and the earpads are only 20mm thick, so that the ears have only 12mm space and most people have the ears touching the drivers.
Me too.
So I am desperately looking for replacements pads, and before I surrender to buying the oval Hm5 I would like to find a round one.
But must be max 85mm large (80 better), min 45 inside, and min 23mm thick (25 or more is better).

Outer diameter 90mm, inner 55mm, depth 20mm, thickness 17mm.

 

[Giogio]

Outer diameter 90mm, inner 55mm, depth 20mm, thickness 17mm.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Oh man...
I am so sad.
I was so much hoping they were at least 23mm!
Damn it.
But, anyway, what is that you call depth and what thickness?

 

[lawrecedent]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Oh man...
I am so sad.
I was so much hoping they were at least 23mm!
Damn it.
But, anyway, what is that you call depth and what thickness?

Depth is measured inside the cup from the driver to the top of the pad. Thickness is measured across the pad (the differnce between the internal and external diameters).