[x RELIC x]

Wasn't sure if you've considered and / or heard it. Good to know, and apologies for missing the info earlier.

 

[somestranger26]

  It's amusing to me how often this one comes up.  I should put a counter on the first page: "(0) Days since the Master 7 has been requested."

You should. I don't think the M7 competes with most of the DACs on your list to begin with and in Purrin's thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff) he has Yggdrasil listed as significantly better than M7.
 
I have an M11 which shouldn't be too far off from the M7 and my 250-hours-not-fully-burnt-in DirectStream already stomps the M11 in pretty much every category.
 
I think Audio-GD is much stronger with their amps than their digital components. They need to move on already from the PCM1704UK chips.

 

[Torq]

Wasn't sure if you've considered and / or heard it. Good to know, and apologies for missing the info earlier.

It's all good!
 
It doesn't bother me when things get re-asked for - there's no way to keep up with a thread beyond a few pages.  I just find it amusing that that's the DAC that keeps being requested.

 

[artur9]

@Torq, congrats on the engagement.
 
Personally, I'm still hoping you'll get to try the AQUA La Scala.  But I also like the list you have.

 

[Torq]

  @Torq, congrats on the engagement.
 
Personally, I'm still hoping you'll get to try the AQUA La Scala.  But I also like the list you have.

I may, but it won't be the "current" Mk II model.
 
I heard a rumor that there's going to be a Mk III, or some other update to the Mk II, so I just put the Mk II on indefinite hold until that resolves.
 
Should happen as soon as I get back form my trip - already in contact with the dealer who has been wonderfully responsive and proactive.

 

[x RELIC x]

It's all good!

It doesn't bother me when things get re-asked for - there's no way to keep up with a thread beyond a few pages.  I just find it amusing that that's the DAC that keeps being requested.

Actually, I am not interested in the Master 7 personally. I was just wondering if you compared it for your sake given the comparative price to Yggy. More curiosity for your take on it is all, which you've pretty much covered, lol.

 

[Torq]

Actually, I am not interested in the Master 7 personally. I was just wondering if you compared it for your sake given the comparative price to Yggy. More curiosity for your take on it is all, which you've pretty much covered, lol.

 

 
It's a good DAC and most people shopping in that realm should consider it, though I don't think it approaches Yggdrasil performance.
 
Not really to my taste, as you've found ... and my issues stem mostly from how I find the PCM-1704 (in various implementations) and low-frequency reproduction.  There's something not quite right about it.  A lack of articulation, or wooliness, or softness or ... well ... something that just doesn't sit right.  I didn't have that issue with the 1702.  Might just be me.  But as musical as it sounds, I tend to find the bass issue distracting to the point of it impairing my enjoyment of the music.
 
I'd take a Burr Brown PCM-56 or 63, Wolfson 8741, ESS 90XX series, various AD parts or the AKM 4396 or 4490 (though I'm progressively less enthused with the whole "Velvet Sound" thing ... excepting in the Bifrost "4490" for some reason that I can't begin to explain).
 
I just have issues with some DAC ICs it seems.  Can't just be down to the chip, since implementation can change a lot of things, but the number of things you can vary in implementation while still making the chip actually work are not as varied as might be ideal (it's requirements and characteristics don't change).  The PCM-1704, CS 4398, TDA 1543 and a good number of earlier ESS/Sabre solutions are generally on my bad side.
 
Though, oddly, when the Marantz CD 65 landed, was back in the, oh, must be late eighties, and especially the CD 65 II SE, I absolutely loved the thing, and that was, as I recall, a TDA1541A IC.  Absolute giant killer of a CD player.  I might have to get track a working unit down for the purposes of raw nostalgia!

 

[landroni]

 
 
Not really to my taste, as you've found ... and my issues stem mostly from how I find the PCM-1704 (in various implementations) and low-frequency reproduction.  There's something not quite right about it.  A lack of articulation, or wooliness, or softness or ... well ... something that just doesn't sit right.  I didn't have that issue with the 1702.  Might just be me.  But as musical as it sounds, I tend to find the bass issue distracting to the point of it impairing my enjoyment of the music.

 
I'd take a Burr Brown PCM-56 or 63, Wolfson 8741, ESS 90XX series, various AD parts or the AKM 4396 or 4490 (though I'm progressively less enthused with the whole "Velvet Sound" thing ... excepting in the Bifrost "4490" for some reason that I can't begin to explain).

Not just you... @Baldr as well.
 
It would seem the PCM1704 was one of the factors that drove Mike out of the DAC business in the 90s:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/3330#post_10976190

Even the new multibit PCM1704 DAC sounded like ass compared to the PCM63. It was time to get out of the DAC business.

 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff/2400#post_11291298

Back in the Theta days, the PCM1704 was the last of the Burr-Brown, designed for audio multibit DACs to appear. I remember waiting with the expectation that this would be indeed a new improvement not only in specs but in sound on the PCM56-PCM58-PCM61-PCM63 evolution chain that I had been working with for the last several years.
 
Was I surprised when I realized, after I'd built a proto, that the PCM1704 sounded like ass compared to its evolutionary ancestors. When I worked with Burr-Brown engineers back in the days before the TI acquisition, they genuinely gave a schiit about audio as reproducing good sound. After the acquisition, they became much less accessible in a larger TI corporate world.

 
I would expect that in prototyping Mike had the chance to control for a sufficient range of factors to form an informed opinion on the D/A chip...

 

[landroni]

  Though, oddly, when the Marantz CD 65 landed, was back in the, oh, must be late eighties, and especially the CD 65 II SE, I absolutely loved the thing, and that was, as I recall, a TDA1541A IC.  Absolute giant killer of a CD player.  I might have to get track a working unit down for the purposes of raw nostalgia!

Are you aware of any TDA1541 DACs still in production? There are quite a few TDA1543, but now I'm getting more curious on the higher-end sibling...

 

[Articnoise]

 
I may, but it won't be the "current" Mk II model.
 
I heard a rumor that there's going to be a Mk III, or some other update to the Mk II, so I just put the Mk II on indefinite hold until that resolves.
 
Should happen as soon as I get back form my trip - already in contact with the dealer who has been wonderfully responsive and proactive.

 

Aqua Audio La Scala II use Burr-Brown PCM -1704K.

 

[Sunya]

  The PCM-1704, CS 4398, TDA 1543 and a good number of earlier ESS/Sabre solutions are generally on my bad side.

 
Would like to read what you think of the Primare DAC30 ($3k MSRP) if you could audition one; it uses the CS4398 for conversion.
 
https://vanaltd.com/collections/primare/products/dac30-high-resolution-dac
 
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/primare-dac30-digital-to-analogue-converter/
 
http://www.stereolife.eu/reviews/item/964-primare-dac30

 

[sheldaze]

I may, but it won't be the "current" Mk II model.
 
I heard a rumor that there's going to be a Mk III, or some other update to the Mk II, so I just put the Mk II on indefinite hold until that resolves.
 
Should happen as soon as I get back form my trip - already in contact with the dealer who has been wonderfully responsive and proactive.

I was able to hear Aqua La Voce at a recent convention, in one of the speaker rooms hosted by a local vendor. The vendor confirmed that both the Aqua La Scala and eventually the Aqua La Voce will have new custom DAC chips. Simply put, they cannot continue to sell the off-shelf chip once supplies run out. Looking to the future, Aqua Acoustic already planned this upgrade. And they have reported (the vendor, if you believe him, actually heard it himself) the new chip to be a considerable step up in performance.

 

[artur9]

   

Aqua Audio La Scala II use Burr-Brown PCM -1704K.

IIRC, Aqua actually lets you choose from 3 chips for La Voce
 

- cod. D104 - Burr Brown PCM1704 (2 dac) - sign magnitude R2R ladder DAC 24bit / 192 kHz

- cod. D101 - Philips TDA1541A - R2R 16 bit / 96 kHz (R1, S1 grade selection on request)

- cod. D165 - Analog Devices AD1865 - R2R 18 bit / 192 kHz
 

 

[sheldaze]

Could be. And I do not recall the name of the new chip. I'm sure we'll find out more in time, though perhaps too late for this comparison?
Key point was its reliance on the 1704 chip should be a non-issue in the near future.

 

[ScubadudeSA]

Interesting read, thank you!  But no Wadia?  I would imagine some of their models would fit the bill?