[yong_shun]

The new LG G6 and V30 attracted lots of audiophiles with their ESS Quad Dac which able to decode up to 32 bit bitrate.

I am using a LG G6 with Campfire Audio Nova, a low impedance and high sensitivity IEM. When I plugged it into the phone, the Hi-Fi status appeared as "normal device".

I am wondering will the performance of the DAC alter when the Hi-Fi status is switched to "High Impedance Device" or just solely change of the amplifier power... If yes, is IE match from Ifi audio a good choice to trigger the high impedance mode?

I wish to know more about noise floor too. Very interested in audio and sound science

Haunted by this myth for so long and wish to get impressed by some experts.

 

[artpiggo]

Instead of creating a new thread. You can go ask in LG V30 thread. This topic is often discussed. There is a trick to trigger aux mode/high impedance you can find.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lg-v30.858933/page-200

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/

 

[ProtegeManiac]

The new LG G6 and V30 attracted lots of audiophiles with their ESS Quad Dac which able to decode up to 32 bit bitrate.

I am using a LG G6 with Campfire Audio Nova, a low impedance and high sensitivity IEM. When I plugged it into the phone, the Hi-Fi status appeared as "normal device".

I am wondering will the performance of the DAC alter when the Hi-Fi status is switched to "High Impedance Device" or just solely change of the amplifier power...

If you go into GSM Arena's measurements of the V30, stereo crosstalk, THD, and SNR are actually slightly worse off with Quad DAC. People are either thinking louder (though without clipping, nor piling on a lot of audible distortion) = better, or their headphones just need that extra power that it offsets the other specs. Chances are it works series+parallel (one whole audio chip further amped by the amp stage of one other chip on each channel) or worse, all four in series (using only the amp side of the second to fourth chips), which explains the lower Crosstalk performance.

https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_v30-review-1657p7.php

If yes, is IE match from Ifi audio a good choice to trigger the high impedance mode?

Why pay for that and have a clunky adapter when you can root the phone and just set High Impedance (high battery consumption) Mode as default? The single DAC operation is just kind of like how even gas guzzling tax-charged supercars have an economy mode for city street driving, except while that doesn't help Porsche the way VW cheated with diesel tests, LG gets to have people who don't really know SQ and only smartphones get phones to test without getting crap battery life running four audio chips.

Basically, you're better off rooting the phone for free, then spending the money on a battery case or a power bank to (over)compensate for the Quad DAC battery consumption (ie it's not like it will reduce mixed use battery life to 25%).

 

[yong_shun]

Please correct me if I was wrong:

1. When the phone is running at "Normal Device Mode", only one of the four audio chip is running and when it is switched to "High Impedance Mode", all four audio chips are running together (in series). That's why the performance in "High Impedance Mode" actually dropped instead of improve. The overall performance will not be improved if I was to use a low impedance and high sensitivity IEM. The amplification actually amplifies all the noise because the series set up and my IEM able to pick up due to the high sensitivity?

2. If I was to root my phone and set "High Impedance Mode" as default, wouldn't it be too powerful for low impedance and high sensitivity IEMs such as my Campfire Audio Nova?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

1. When the phone is running at "Normal Device Mode", only one of the four audio chip is running and when it is switched to "High Impedance Mode", all four audio chips are running together (in series). That's why the performance in "High Impedance Mode" actually dropped instead of improve. The overall performance will not be improved if I was to use a low impedance and high sensitivity IEM. The amplification actually amplifies all the noise because the series set up and my IEM able to pick up due to the high sensitivity?

That's just my guess. But just note that the THD+N performance decrease might not necessarily be that audible to you compared to the increase in power, although crosstalk oddly enough takes enough of a hit with headphones vs using it as a line out, which suggests that all four are in series and not two in series running parallel, in which case Quad DAC should possibly have less of a penalty in running headphones vs normal mode compared to the higher channel separation when used as a line out.

Unless what's happening is it detects the high impedance input and activates Quad DAC, but again Quad DAC isn't better than normal mode when driving headphones.

In any case, if you were thinking of buying the LG just for the Quad DAC, I'd tell you that the single DAC performance is good enough, and wiht high sensitivity IEMs you could probably get away with any other smartphone with comparable audio chip performance. If you already have the V30 and know how to root Androids, try it and see if you like the sound and you can live with the negative effect on battery life.

2. If I was to root my phone and set "High Impedance Mode" as default, wouldn't it be too powerful for low impedance and high sensitivity IEMs such as my Campfire Audio Nova?

If you're thinking it might wreck the IEM, not exactly. If it's sending enough power to get it to hit its excursion limits (and not from clipping) you'd have turned the volume down since it will already hurt your ears. Just that again note that this isn't like with a headphone and you go from a laptop's headphone output to pouring 500mW of very clean power (vs the laptop's dirty 10mW) from an NFB-11 or similar.

 

[maxxevv]

Just use a jack extension / angle adaptor.

i) Plug it into handphone jack without the earphone / headphone.
It will activate the "external device" or Aux mode.
ii) Plug in your desired earphone / headphone to the extension/ adaptor.
You are good to go.

I've tested this on the Hifiman Sundara, Aeon Open / Closed and will power these low impedance, low sensitivity planars to levels beyond what my ears will comfortably listen to.

No software hacks required.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I've tested this on the Hifiman Sundara, Aeon Open / Closed and will power these low impedance, low sensitivity planars to levels beyond what my ears will comfortably listen to.

No software hacks required.

Problem is if you walk around with it using an IEM that extension cable is still just another unwieldy dongle, like a Lightning to 3.5mm cable. Which is why the software hack is something others do than join the dongle crowd.

Just use a jack extension / angle adaptor.

i) Plug it into handphone jack without the earphone / headphone.
It will activate the "external device" or Aux mode.
ii) Plug in your desired earphone / headphone to the extension/ adaptor.
You are good to go.

So it doesn't need an impedance altering cable that has some kind of capacitor on it?

Does it work if I plug in IEM cables with the shells not hooked up, and then hook up the shells on the MMCX/2pin ends? Which gets around the dongle requirement.

It will activate the "external device" or Aux mode.

So it's basically just plugging a headphone into the line out of a DAC? Not the headphone amp output designed for handling the dynamic load of a transducer instead of an amp input stage?

 

[maxxevv]

You seem more interested in picking holes in others suggestions than actually trying it out.

Here's how it looks like with a straight comnector into an angle adaptor.

No impedance or additional stuff required.

You can do that too. But try doing that to your precious MMCX / 2-pin connectors 3 times a day for a month and see what happens to them.

Its states 'external device' mode. What happens internally within the phone is purely your speculation here. I don't know if it does any of that. I'm very sure you don't either.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

You seem more interested in picking holes in others suggestions than actually trying it out.

1. Why are people so sensitive whenever they get anything short of an applause.

2. I don't have one, I just borrow one once in a while because I still consider it a reference, Quad DAC or not, so I can't just "try it out," not until my cousin and I are in the same place. I would have tried it out already if I had it, but as it is I'm sticking with my Note4 until it breaks, since the sound quality is pretty much identical at safe listening levels, unlike my old, crap SGS3.

Here's how it looks like with a straight comnector into an angle adaptor.

No impedance or additional stuff required.

Alright, at least no pigtail cables involved.

You can do that too. But try doing that to your precious MMCX / 2-pin connectors 3 times a day for a month and see what happens to them.

I was thinking of the other kind of connector in case I get something like Livewires. Or maybe closed circumaurals on TRS connectors at the cups if the sensitivity is around 96dB/1mW or higher.

Its states 'external device' mode. What happens internally within the phone is purely your speculation here. I don't know if it does any of that. I'm very sure you don't either.

I don't, but you said it's called "Aux Mode," so FYI, that suggests the phone expects a line input jack at the other end of the cable.

 

[RockStar2005]

That's just my guess. But just note that the THD+N performance decrease might not necessarily be that audible to you compared to the increase in power, although crosstalk oddly enough takes enough of a hit with headphones vs using it as a line out, which suggests that all four are in series and not two in series running parallel, in which case Quad DAC should possibly have less of a penalty in running headphones vs normal mode compared to the higher channel separation when used as a line out.

Unless what's happening is it detects the high impedance input and activates Quad DAC, but again Quad DAC isn't better than normal mode when driving headphones.

In any case, if you were thinking of buying the LG just for the Quad DAC, I'd tell you that the single DAC performance is good enough, and wiht high sensitivity IEMs you could probably get away with any other smartphone with comparable audio chip performance. If you already have the V30 and know how to root Androids, try it and see if you like the sound and you can live with the negative effect on battery life.




If you're thinking it might wreck the IEM, not exactly. If it's sending enough power to get it to hit its excursion limits (and not from clipping) you'd have turned the volume down since it will already hurt your ears. Just that again note that this isn't like with a headphone and you go from a laptop's headphone output to pouring 500mW of very clean power (vs the laptop's dirty 10mW) from an NFB-11 or similar.

Hey Protege, what's up?

Quick question. Didn't see my question mentioned, so I'm gonna ask you directly: I know HIM being enabled means ALL FOUR of the Quad DACs are utilized, and when it's in Normal Mode it's just the one DAC. But what about Aux Mode?! Are all four DACs utilized in Aux Mode, or just the one still?

Thanks. Hope all is well with you!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quick question. Didn't see my question mentioned, so I'm gonna ask you directly: I know HIM being enabled means ALL FOUR of the Quad DACs are utilized, and when it's in Normal Mode it's just the one DAC. But what about Aux Mode?! Are all four DACs utilized in Aux Mode, or just the one still?

Not sure about that. Technically, unless Aux Mode was programmed very differently, then high impedance mode will activate once it sees a load impedance like an amp input, since they're typically around 1000ohms or higher (or a little lower). But if you look at the GSMArena review they have line out measurements with Quad DAC HIM on and off. Which is kind of weird if Aux Mode has a different setting that's supposed to bypass the amplification stage on the chips; unless it doesn't work like multi-DAC circuits where, if they work in series or parallel+series (ie two in each channel) where the latter chips in one chain are just doing error correction (which hasn't been an effective method since DAC chips got better; ie, this is why you see NOS DACs with 4 to 8 Philips chips in series, but at most more modern chips have one per channel).

 

[RockStar2005]

Not sure about that. Technically, unless Aux Mode was programmed very differently, then high impedance mode will activate once it sees a load impedance like an amp input, since they're typically around 1000ohms or higher (or a little lower). But if you look at the GSMArena review they have line out measurements with Quad DAC HIM on and off. Which is kind of weird if Aux Mode has a different setting that's supposed to bypass the amplification stage on the chips; unless it doesn't work like multi-DAC circuits where, if they work in series or parallel+series (ie two in each channel) where the latter chips in one chain are just doing error correction (which hasn't been an effective method since DAC chips got better; ie, this is why you see NOS DACs with 4 to 8 Philips chips in series, but at most more modern chips have one per channel).

Hmm ok. Thx for getting back to me!

I'm using 32 ohm Bowers & Wilkins P7 (wired) headphones, HOWEVER, I always do the trick with the 3.5mm male to 3.5mm female adapter, which "tricks" the phone into going into Aux mode. So basically my V30 is thinking I'm plugging in a 50+ ohm headphone.

So is there any way to find out for sure, besides asking LG? lol

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So is there any way to find out for sure, besides asking LG? lol

I'm not really sure about that. Personally, if it sounds good with a given headphone or IEM, then I wouldn't really worry about how exactly it works.

 

[RockStar2005]

I'm not really sure about that. Personally, if it sounds good with a given headphone or IEM, then I wouldn't really worry about how exactly it works.

Ok thanks!

 

[RockStar2005]

I'm not really sure about that. Personally, if it sounds good with a given headphone or IEM, then I wouldn't really worry about how exactly it works.

I'd asked around elsewhere as well, and it appears that you get all 4 DACs and/or "pipelines" regardless of the mode.

See here. Very awesome news!!