[Ultrainferno]

I would say ot depends on the amp design. In some of my amps the rectifier is the biggest sound changer, in others the input tube and in the rest the power tubes. In the wa2 changing the recrifier hardly modifies the sound in example.

Most fun to roll are the power tubes and rectifiers for me though. So much choice!

 

[vasikgreif]

Hi everybody, newbie here. I've got HD650 for a long time, currently running them just thru some Pioneer receiver, and I hate the harshness, poor low end etc, so I would like to get the so praised about 339, to finally enjoy the headphones. 
 
I do have some questions, as it's quite difficult to read thru all the 157 pages here..
 
1) Is it possible to order 339 directly with some better tubes than the stock ones?
2) If so, what are the general recommendations? I live in Czech republic, and it's impossible to find a place here to A/B some of the tubes, and also I'm not the kind of guy who would like to spend too much time and money on gear
3) How often do the tubes need to be replaced?
4) I'm listening exclusively to FLAC, so I guess I'll also need a DAC later. Is there any recommendation for that?
5) Should I buy 339, or Bottlehead Crack OTL, which is considerably cheaper and recommended by many?
 
Thanks for help

 

[Xenophon]

1.  I take it you mean the LaFigaro 339 (same amp, they had to change the name due to a company split up).  You'd have to ask Yuking about the tubes but I don't see the advantage as it'll almost certainly be cheaper to purchase them in the EU and you don't risk damage and customs fees/taxes.
 
2. Very much depends on taste and how you like your sound, it's against your mantra but I'd recommend doing some research and reading the thread.  Prices range from 5 to 150 Eur/tube and nobody knows how much is 'too much' for you.  Start with something basic like the ubiquitous 6AS7G from RCA as driver tube for instance.
 
3.  Depends on the tube type (its construction, some ruggedised tubes kan last a very long time but note that sometimes if it's built like a tank, it also sounds like one) and how it's run + how good you take care of it (switching, handling...).  Compare it with a lightbulb (the old fashioned kind), numbers are all over the place, from 1000 to 10000 hours.  But unless you're really unlucky they don't break down catastrophically but just...fade away.
 
4.  You'll definitely need a dac.  Anything half decent with standard rebook output gain will do.  Budgets are once again all over the place
 
5.  Your call, depends also on how you like the sound.  Unless I'm mistaken you have to build the bottle head amps yourself.  Not terribly complicated but something to be taken into consideration.
 
If the above seems less than helpful, it's because there are lots and lots of options and in the end you have to decide what suits you best.  What's good for me might not be good for your musical tastes.
 
A new contender that was just reviewed and that I would SERIOUSLY consider as an alternative to the 339 if only for its versatility:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/722633/elekit-tu-8200-dx-headphone-speaker-amp-review
 
Out of interest, what Pioneer receiver are you using?  I own a vintage SX-1980, (from 1970) hope it's not one of that range/era because if those sound bad to you then there's a problem with your hearing imho.  On that note:  if you have an issue with the way ss amps sound then you should know that the DV / La Figaro amps (or at least the 337 that I own) sound very neutral, matter of fact it's been called one of the most ss like of tube amps (imo testament to their good quality).  Don't know about the 339.  But if you're looking for the typical 'lush', 'sweet' tube sound then it might be better to take a look at another brand.

 

[vasikgreif]

 

2. Very much depends on taste and how you like your sound, it's against your mantra but I'd recommend doing some research and reading the thread.  Prices range from 5 to 150 Eur/tube and nobody knows how much is 'too much' for you.  Start with something basic like the ubiquitous 6AS7G from RCA as driver tube for instance.
 

 
Hmmm, listening mostly to acoustic music / jazz, but also to timba / latin-jazz. I generally like clear, sweet highs, and also would like to get deep bottom - that's what I'm missing most on HD650 now.
 

 

3.  Depends on the tube type (its construction, some ruggedised tubes kan last a very long time but note that sometimes if it's built like a tank, it also sounds like one) and how it's run + how good you take care of it (switching, handling...).  Compare it with a lightbulb (the old fashioned kind), numbers are all over the place, from 1000 to 10000 hours.  But unless you're really unlucky they don't break down catastrophically but just...fade away.
 

 
OK, thanks

 

4.  You'll definitely need a dac.  Anything half decent with standard rebook output gain will do.  Budgets are once again all over the place
 

Was looking at this one: http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,rSeries,USB-DACs,irDAC.htm - good or bad idea?

 
 

If the above seems less than helpful, it's because there are lots and lots of options and in the end you have to decide what suits you best.  What's good for me might not be good for your musical tastes.
 

 
The problem is there's no place to compare the different amps here in CZ, and it's really difficult to pick something without any comparison...
 

A new contender that was just reviewed and that I would SERIOUSLY consider as an alternative to the 339 if only for its versatility:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/722633/elekit-tu-8200-dx-headphone-speaker-amp-review
 

 
Thanks, will look into this one also.
 
 

Out of interest, what Pioneer receiver are you using?  I own a vintage SX-1980, (from 1970) hope it's not one of that range/era because if those sound bad to you then there's a problem with your hearing imho.  On that note:  if you have an issue with the way ss amps sound then you should know that the DV / La Figaro amps (or at least the 337 that I own) sound very neutral, matter of fact it's been called one of the most ss like of tube amps (imo testament to their good quality).  Don't know about the 339.  But if you're looking for the typical 'lush', 'sweet' tube sound then it might be better to take a look at another brand.


 

 



Got this one: http://www.hifi-review.com/149815-pioneer-vsx-806rds.html, doesn't sound good at all...

 

[Xenophon]

For the DAC:  I never heard the Arcam, no doubt it'll do.  If you want it cheap, basic and no frills then take a look at the ODAC, you could get one with RCA outputs powered by USB here:  http://www.headnhifi.com/odac-rca
 
Understand that it's a basic device but at the price (about 120 EUR and they'll ship from France so no import duty) it can't be beaten.  I own one  (not by this builder) that's coupled to the O2 amp in the office and it does the job, trust me.  Just don't expect caviar at the price of a burger (then again, many audio outfits sell burgers priced like caviar...).  Check out the classifieds here, occasionally you can get one almost for free (but double check the seller feedback and ONLY use paypal commercial to pay, if the seller doesn't absorb the fee like he's supposed to then do so yourself, it's insurance).
 
I never heard the HD-650 but from what I understand from others it's already a quite smooth and warm-sounding headphone, if you want even more of that and more bass then I honestly can't give useful advice as I personally prefer a more neutral rendition.  It's a pity you can't compare because what you might ultimately be more happy with is a more 'tube' sounding amp than the DV.  But as I said, can't help you there, a HD-650 is already too much for me, let alone coupled to a warm/liquid sounding amp.

 

[Ville]

Hi guys!
 
My current combo comprises the HD650 and 339 with RCA 6AS7G and Telefunken EF800 tubes.
 
Especially when listening to some female singers, such as Diana Krall and Norah Jones, I feel that the vocals became slightly too forward and emphasised from the overall presentation.
 
Have been reading this thread for a while now and my thoughts are that I could give the 6SJ7GT mesh plates or 6J5 tubes a try. This would at least reduce the gain as far as my interpretation goes.
 
What would be your recommendation? All suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Ultrainferno]

I'd switch out the telefunken for some NOS Mullard's

 

[Ville]

  I'd switch out the telefunken for some NOS Mullard's

 
Mullard EF80?
 
How do these compare to the 6SJ7GT or 6J5?
 
The post #1757 in particular caught my eye:
 

   
I also found that Western 6AS7G have really good in the overall presentation and the best with the 339 to my ears, but what I have noticed and made me really poorer, is that GEC 6AS7G have such a 3D depth of sound that surpass the average 6AS7G... The sound has another dimension added to it, I really would love those tubes to be cheaper!
The pure triodes 6J5/L63 also beats both Tungsol 6ASJ7GT and EF800, the sound is more detailed, the separation of voices is more refined, you loose the more dynamic bass of the EF800, and the special midrange of the mesh 6SJ7GT...
6AS7G+EF800= high gain
6AS7G+mesh 6SJ7GT = medium gain
6AS7G+6J5= medium/low gain
 
Overall I found out that you adapt a lot to the sound you hear, and that you wanna hear, but tube Rolling is pretty fun game ^^!
YMMV.

 

[Ultrainferno]

EF80 Yes.
I do like the 6SJ7GT tubes but i don't think they would help you soften the treble

 

[MJS242]

   
Mullard EF80?
 
How do these compare to the 6SJ7GT or 6J5?
 
The post #1757 in particular caught my eye:
 

 
Be careful, you're talking about two different amps for the 6SJ7 and the 6J5.  
 
If you ordered via the website, you have the 6J4P, 6SJ7, 5693, 6Ж4С version.  The only people I know of that have the 6C5, 6J5, 6J5G, 6J5GT, L63 version are those that special ordered it from yuking or they converted their 6SJ7 to use the 6C5/6J5.  The 6SJ7 version is brighter, and the 6J5 version is warmer (that's not my opinion, but what the manufacturer has told me).  
 
I love both the EF80/EF86 (telefunken) and the 6SJ7GT (mesh plates) if you can find them.

 

[Ville]

  
Mullard EF80?
 
How do these compare to the 6SJ7GT or 6J5?
 
The post #1757 in particular caught my eye:
 

 
Be careful, you're talking about two different amps for the 6SJ7 and the 6J5.  
 
If you ordered via the website, you have the 6J4P, 6SJ7, 5693, 6Ж4С version.  The only people I know of that have the 6C5, 6J5, 6J5G, 6J5GT, L63 version are those that special ordered it from yuking or they converted their 6SJ7 to use the 6C5/6J5.  The 6SJ7 version is brighter, and the 6J5 version is warmer (that's not my opinion, but what the manufacturer has told me).  
 
I love both the EF80/EF86 (telefunken) and the 6SJ7GT (mesh plates) if you can find them.

Much appreciated for pointing that out.

MJS242, what would be the main differences between the Telefunken EF80 and 6SJ7GT mesh?

 

[MJS242]

EF80/EF86 are brighter, more airy and detailed sounding .  I like them with the HD 650's.  6SJ7GT are fuller and warmer.  I usually use the 6SJ7GT's with the T1's.  However, I think the 6J5 version is a better match for the T1's (according to yuking and I can see why if that is the less-bright version of the amp).  

 

[Ville]

I guess that leaves me with the Mullard EF80 or 6SJ7GT.
 
As a EF80, is Mullard the brighter one of the two set of tubes?

 

[Ultrainferno]

I find the 6sj7 a tad more bright

 

[MJS242]

Do take ultra's opinion over mine, he's a much more adept listener than I.  
 
I guess my question is... Why not both