Koss KSC75's. Dont Forget This Giant Killer in all the ''Hidden Gem'' Hype.
Jun 21, 2013 at 11:36 AM Post #151 of 1,442
Yes I agree that the ksc75 is Way beyond its price point. It's my 2nd favorite Portable. And I know about personal preference, I have no problem people putting ksc75 as their favorite.

But not thinking about value, I can name quite a few cans than out does the ksc75 in all categories. Comfort, isolation, build quality, durability, sound and etc.

I'm not saying that that it doesn't do things well, cuz it obviously does.

Now I'm not talking value but just talking music experience regardless of price.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 11:58 AM Post #152 of 1,442
... It's my 2nd favorite Portable.....


If this is the case, then how is it that those better products,

..cans than out does the ksc75 in all categories. Comfort, isolation, build quality, durability, sound and etc.....


aren't all favoured by you above the KSC75? Are you saying that despite having other headphones that you find better in every way you still prefer the KSC75? If this is the case then what is that quality that hasn't been defined but which so strongly affected your preference?
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 2:37 PM Post #153 of 1,442
Double post
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 2:37 PM Post #154 of 1,442
I said 2nd favorite portable. I prefer any of my full size cans to the ksc75.

We're not just comparing portables to portables but all types.... Full size, portable and iems (even speakers).

Out of my portable cans. They are my 2nd favorite.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 3:06 PM Post #156 of 1,442
I said 2nd favorite portable. I prefer any of my full size cans to the ksc75.

We're not just comparing portables to portables but all types.... Full size, portable and iems (even speakers).

Out of my portable cans. They are my 2nd favorite.


IEMs are not portable? Sennheiser Amperior, a lightweight, on ear model with inline mic, low impedance, high sensitivity is not a portable headphone?

If you have your own personal definitions of words it makes a meaningful conversation all but impossible. Clearly I haven't understood you and you haven't understood me so I'll just bow out here.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 8:32 PM Post #157 of 1,442
Preferences aren't subject to being right or wrong. When the important factor is personal preference then it doesn't hold that someone who prefers the cheap product is wrong, or has something wrong with them.

I have no idea what a $1000 dollar headphone might sound like but I do know that I like my Koss KSC75 a lot more than another headphone I own that cost ten times more, and another that cost about six times more. I bought the KSC75 only because it was so cheap that I could "throw away" the money on seeing what the fuss was about. It turns out that against my expectation I'm really pleased with it. If I had owned the KSC75 first and then spent ten times the price on something else only to find I liked it a lot less I would have been really annoyed.

With other headphones I've felt a bit dissatisfied, not exactly unhappy but still sure that I could have made a better choice, or that if I spend a bit more I can get a real improvement. That kind of curiosity can get expensive. It's nice to have something that clearly isn't going to be trumped by a near competitor and which can stand on its own merits without reference to price.

I think a big factor is having a really well balanced sound, which is something most budget headphones don't manage, and lots of more expensive ones don't do well either.

I found it quite entertaining to visit headphone.com and compare the frequency response graphs, starting with the Sennheiser HD800 as reference. It doesn't take long to realise that many cheap and midrange headphones make a mess of the higher frequencies. Of course the KSC75 don't achieve the evenness of the expensive Sennheisers but they do an awful lot better than many budget and midrange 'phones which tend to either fundamentally lack high frequency response or to have extreme peaks and troughs. It's interesting to see the KSC75 maintain a relatively even response all the way to 10000 Hz. Obviously there is more to how any audio product's sound than a frequency response curve but I think it does give a clue as to why the KSC75 sound very natural where many substantially more expensive headphones can sound dull or harsh. When you have a headphone that allows music to sound natural then any other headphone that doesn't achieve has very little appeal, and it doesn't matter if it has better bass response, or smoother sounding highs, or any other quality. If the balance isn't right any and all other good qualities don't count for much. And if the balance is right but the price is huge I'm also not that interested, being already quite content.


Again you hit the nail on the head. My more expensive headphones most definitely have better X characteristic than the koss 75's, and they should for over 10x the price. But overall, and I stress overall, the Kosses sound better; they excel at sounding extremely natural. Voices sound exactly like they would in a conversation, highs are not artifically exaggerated to add 'detail' which results in ear fatigue. What's the point of hearing every detail if it makes you wince and grind your teeth at your bleeding ears?

On another point, I feel your passion for frequency responce charts. A few tips I've learned is that a magazine did a spectrum analysis of music and found that 85% of music is within 250-2k hz. Not so coincidently every 'good' headphone has very little ripple in these areas. Additionally, the human ear is most sensitive to sounds in the 2k-5k region, so overly exaggerated FR in this region makes headphones sound terrible. That's why you usually see FR graphs for headphones dip at 2-5k hz and rise soon after 5k. If you like bass 100hz is very important as it gives bass its 'punch', and below 100hz gives 'extension', I.e. low bass. Ideally bass frequency responce should rise at and below 100hz to 20-32 hz if you love bass. High end detail after 10-12k really isnt extremely important and most people can't hear anything after 17k hz.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 9:00 PM Post #158 of 1,442
A few tips I've learned is that a magazine did a spectrum analysis of music and found that 85% of music is within 250-2k hz. Not so coincidently every 'good' headphone has very little ripple in these areas.


This square wave 500 Hz comparison is worth a look. Don't take it in isolation though because if you look at the 50 Hz plot comparison it isn't nearly so pretty.....

 
Jun 21, 2013 at 9:17 PM Post #159 of 1,442
IEMs are not portable? Sennheiser Amperior, a lightweight, on ear model with inline mic, low impedance, high sensitivity is not a portable headphone?

If you have your own personal definitions of words it makes a meaningful conversation all but impossible. Clearly I haven't understood you and you haven't understood me so I'll just bow out here.


Iems are iems, portable headphones are portable headphones. Maybe it's lost in translation but when someone says portable they don't usually include iems but yes iems are portable by definition of "portable".

So please don't try to get all technical, it's just general terms thats usually used.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 9:21 PM Post #160 of 1,442
Quote:
Iems are iems, portable headphones are portable headphones. Maybe it's lost in translation but when someone says portable they don't usually include iems but yes iems are portable by definition of "portable".

So please don't try to get all technical, it's just general terms thats usually used.

 
I don't buy that one, no matter how softly you walk it back.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 9:34 PM Post #161 of 1,442
Iems are iems, portable headphones are portable headphones. Maybe it's lost in translation but when someone says portable they don't usually include iems but yes iems are portable by definition of "portable".

So please don't try to get all technical, it's just general terms thats usually used.


There was no translation. Using common English words to mean exactly what they mean is not "getting all technical". Words carry meaning. If you prefer unstated and different meanings for commonly used words that is up to you but in doing so statements become so ambiguous that conversation is likely to be futile.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 9:49 PM Post #162 of 1,442
So let's get back to being fanbois...err I mean discussing the KSC75

I'll post this again as we got distracted:



If you need to squeal like a bieberphile just go ahead. Don't be ashamed. Yes, people will point and laugh but do it anyway, for the grateful amusement of your peers.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 9:58 PM Post #163 of 1,442
Nevermind, I see I've run into those annoying people who want to act like they are always right.

Seeing they haven't been on the forums long enough to get it, it's understandable.

To make you guys feels better I am wrong and you guys are always right. Your knowledge is astounding.
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 10:02 PM Post #164 of 1,442
I hate to add fuel to the fire but I gotta agree with Teke that IEMS are normally not considered portable, they're given their own category because comparing KSC75s to say the 8320s isn't at all fair; they're completely different and it would be comparing apples to oranges.
 
Also, if anybody wanted to see all the graphs for the 75s: http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Headphones&category=275&search_target=title&search_keyword=ksc&document_srl=9256
 
Jun 21, 2013 at 10:20 PM Post #165 of 1,442
I hate to add fuel to the fire but I gotta agree with Teke that IEMS are normally not considered portable, they're given their own category because comparing KSC75s to say the 8320s isn't at all fair; they're completely different and it would be comparing apples to oranges.

Also, if anybody wanted to see all the graphs for the 75s: http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Headphones&category=275&search_target=title&search_keyword=ksc&document_srl=9256


sarcasm

You're right. My Shure IEMs are so big and heavy that I now have ears that stretch down to my shoulders. And my earpad headphones are so crushingly heavy and enormous that there is a crease running over the top of my head from the headband. Also it's completely impossible to compare the sound made by one category of headphone to the sound made by another because they have nothing in common at all. :confused:

/sarcasm

Come on. Portable, it's an actual word with plain and commonly understood unambiguous uncontroversial meaning. It means it's easy to carry and in terms of headphones it means they also are easy to use while on the go. IEMs are portable. Clip ons are portable. Sennheiser Amperiors are portable. They have an inline microphone for your iPhone for Chr***ake! How is a product specifically designed for use with a phone not considered portable??? AAAAAAAAAGGGHHH.

Can we please stay on the Koss and anyone who feels their small/lightweight/foldable/designed-for-iphone/iem product is not a portable headphone just keep that world shattering revelation to yourself?
 

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