[BRCMRGN]

Actually all JH iems are one and the same, differences are in our head. Actually maybe all iems on the planet are the same, it's a conspiracy.

This would explain a great many things.

 

[tumburu]

  tumburu,
 
Looks like your coming around to my personal experience my friend! This is a good thing... 
 
Now if you spend about 100 hours or so "burning-in" your Layla's rather then just ASSUMING that the burn-in process is some bull S*iT which "implies" directly to me and my 30 years of actual audio experience in this field is a joke!  Specifically your quote was :"not to mention other 'imaginations'), mind is very powerful, and it can fool you so easily. Look at the clinical tests of so many drugs and substances; the placebo lot always has significant results, even they don't receive an actual working drug." 
 
My point is don't ASSUME this if you actually haven't spent the time burning-in these earpieces you really can't render your very insulting point of view.
-Speed 

 
I'm equalizing headphones since I started using them in audio work. It doesn't mean that if you use the eq on the AK player we're doing the same thing. I didn't hear an AK player yet but at those specifications I seriously doubt they have a screwed FR. Even our phones and tablets have a pretty linear response. But, since I didn't hear the actual thing you can say anything. Anyway, I do my living eq-ing stuff so I really know when somebody knows what they are doing and the degree of experience an eq setting shows.
 
My corrections are very specific and efficiently treating the particular problems Layla has in the midrange and in the treble. They speak by themselves and anybody who has a proper parametric eq can check them. If you want to discuss further please use the pm, I don't want to bore anybody further with this.
 
All the best!

 

[goodvibes]

So I listened to the Angie again today. Plenty of mid presence. Played with the bass control for less than a minute on a AK240 with a song I know well. I settled with the long groove aiming just below 12 o'clock. If anything, the mids were more forward than back this time but there are still listening variables here. They're good and very close to right. First hours of the Axpona show and they may not yet have had much run time. Kind of sounded that way. Had my JH13fp with me to compare and I still like them enough to not warrant changing. What I heard the 1st time had me think them better but still not enough to change. This time it was closer but with slightly different presentations. If there's a house sound, these can't both exhibit it. Buying new would have me spending more critical time. I think once things get as good as jh13s, Angies and some others, the source becomes more of a bottleneck anyway, at least when discussing DAPs.

 

[Mimouille]

tumburu,

Looks like your coming around to my personal experience my friend! This is a good thing... 

Now if you spend about 100 hours or so "burning-in" your Layla's rather then just ASSUMING that the burn-in process is some bull S*iT which "implies" directly to me and my 30 years of actual audio experience in this field is a joke!  Specifically your quote was :"not to mention other 'imaginations'), mind is very powerful, and it can fool you so easily. Look at the clinical tests of so many drugs and substances; the placebo lot always has significant results, even they don't receive an actual working drug." 

My point is don't ASSUME this if you actually haven't spent the time burning-in these earpieces you really can't render your very insulting point of view.
-Speed 

Iem makers say burn in is your imagination. But whatever works for you.

 

[goodvibes]

That's actually not true. BA makers say the specs don't change. That's a very different statement. I'm just against questioning what another actually hears. 
 
If I were a maker of IEMs, I'd avoid the subject at all costs because of the negative feedback by some that insist on setting everyone straight. I wouldn't want 'snake oil' or 'it's to make you keep it until you get used to it or can't return it' type comments associated with my product.

 

[tumburu]

There will be a 3rd eq session (hopefully the last one) of the Layla today. Starting to actually work with them made obvious that the settings need to be refined further. 

 

[cheznous]

Like this combination. Cowon P1 and Carot One. Also works well with Fostex HP V1. Actually prefer it to AK240 with and without Chord Hugo.
Early days but very addictive. Been listening for six hours a day since Thursday.
Will admit they surpass my expectations and indeed my Shure 846,Westone W60 and FAD Fi Ba SS.

 

[FullCircle]

  That's actually not true. BA makers say the specs don't change. That's a very different statement. I'm just against questioning what another actually hears. 
 
If I were a maker of IEMs, I'd avoid the subject at all costs because of the negative feedback by some that insist on setting everyone straight. I wouldn't want 'snake oil' or 'it's to make you keep it until you get used to it or can't return it' type comments associated with my product.

 
 

 

[goodvibes]

It's a shame really. Regardless of how you feel about things like this, file types, HiDef etc. it becomes difficult to be open or as helpful to your constituents. I guess we'll have to settle for you guys making great things like the K10 and Angie.

 

[angelom]

So I listened to the Angie again today. Plenty of mid presence. Played with the bass control for less than a minute on a AK240 with a song I know well. I settled with the long groove aiming just below 12 o'clock. If anything, the mids were more forward than back this time but there are still listening variables here. They're good and very close to right. First hours of the Axpona show and they may not yet have had much run time. Kind of sounded that way. Had my JH13fp with me to compare and I still like them enough to not warrant changing. What I heard the 1st time had me think them better but still not enough to change. This time it was closer but with slightly different presentations. If there's a house sound, these can't both exhibit it. Buying new would have me spending more critical time. I think once things get as good as jh13s, Angies and some others, the source becomes more of a bottleneck anyway, at least when discussing DAPs.

Hello goodvibes again.

Thank you for second impressions of Angie. I'm happy you saying mids are good in your opinion. I have one question, I know you have jh13pf custom but if you not have jh13pf and listen this 2 iems in shop for first time, do you choose jh13pf or Angie? Why? I see many times jh13pf is very very good iem but not exactly neutral or reference.

 

[Jap]

   
I was thinking the same thing.
 
OTOTH I have some good news (if I can say that). I gave it another shot with the eq and the results are so much better. But I had to really take my time and do it, compare the sound with my speakers on the way, until I got the sound pretty close to them. The more I compensated the response to sound even in the headphones, the more it sounded closer to the speakers. I have to say, I'm relieved now and I have the feeling I have a completely different set of IEMs, everything is so much better. But it took 9 bands of very surgical eq to achieve that.
 
I even copied to some point the settings on my phone (on the Accudio app, which has enough bands) and the sound is impressive even from the phone. The music is so much more enjoyable, now, but it's a pity they don't sound like this in the first place and it you need a very good eq and eq skills to do it. But at least I can use them now. Until something better (that can sound like the eq'd Layla) comes out, I'm not selling them.
 
I'd post a screenshot for you to have an idea what it takes to make them reference sounding (it's a bit shocking), but it seems I can't attach pictures to my post.

 
Many belated thanks for your detailed review. I was having some nasty computer systems issues I had to resolve and have not gotten around to catching up to this forum until now. I am so glad you were able to equalize the IEM to your satisfaction. Perhaps you can offer to send JHA your equalization notes for a hefty consulting fee.

As a lover of phones that serve as monitors, it is very disappointing to see your report that the IEM was not up to snuff from a professional viewpoint.
 
I take it you feel you can work with your EQ-modified Layla's now? Has the sound characteristics changed substantially from your earlier review?
 
I feel especially grateful to you and other professional sound engineers who have taken the time to provide honest, detailed reviews. I wonder, though, if many who are excited by the hype this IEM would like a true reference sound. I know many really prefer colored phones|IEM's and may be fooling themselves and raping theor wallets/purses if they plunge their hard-earned bucks for a sound they may find boring.

 

[tumburu]

The result is indeed substantially different after applying those eq settings. IMO they sound a lot better now even simply for listening to music, because everything sounds so much better and interesting. Some posters commented the uninteresting sound these have, bringing the mids up brings all the music up, because after all the mids is where the music lives.
 
There's still some work to do yet, because I feel the response still needs to be improved, but ATM I would be confident eq-ing the low end with them. The low mids also sound very good and detailed but I wouldn't venture there yet because you have to have an accurate upper mid response to work that area properly.
 
I didn't have the time to do the third eq session on the Layla but I hope today or tomorrow there will be some time available for that. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Jap]

  The result is indeed substantially different after applying those eq settings. IMO they sound a lot better now even simply for listening to music, because everything sounds so much better and interesting. Some posters commented the uninteresting sound these have, bringing the mids up brings all the music up, because after all the mids is where the music lives.
 
There's still some work to do yet, because I feel the response still needs to be improved, but ATM I would be confident eq-ing the low end with them. The low mids also sound very good and detailed but I wouldn't venture there yet because you have to have an accurate upper mid response to work that area properly.
 
I didn't have the time to do the third eq session on the Layla but I hope today or tomorrow there will be some time available for that. I'll keep you posted.

I will keep my eyes and virtual ears tuned in.

 

[speedracer1]

At the end of the day the Layla is a really amazing IEM.  Definitely a "top-shelf" pick especially for me as I'm using my Cord Hugo and AK240 with them 4 hours a day. I didn't hear the Angie yet I just shot for the "top shelf" pick. That said, next Saturday in Babylon New York is the audio show and top manufactures like Noble, UE and Doctor Julie Glick with be there so I know the Layla's and the Angie will be in the house too.  I'm really looking forward to giving the Angie's a good listen along with the HE-1000 connected to the Cord Hugo. This may be the current "state of the art" or as good as things get at the moment and the moment sounds very good to my listening ears. 
Sincerely,
-Speed 

 

[goodvibes]

Hello goodvibes again.

Thank you for second impressions of Angie. I'm happy you saying mids are good in your opinion. I have one question, I know you have jh13pf custom but if you not have jh13pf and listen this 2 iems in shop for first time, do you choose jh13pf or Angie? Why? I see many times jh13pf is very very good iem but not exactly neutral or reference.

Probably the Angie. I listened to them again today and still really like them. Thing is that either the jh13 or Angie easily discerns the overall goodness and character of their source. Jh13 is neutral and reference but like all IEMs not perfect. K10 has a great balance but is a little warm and a touch of sparkle that works with it. The jh13 sounds quite different by source so it can't be too colored but has a bit of extra low bass where almost everything else is a bit down there compared to the midbass. They can sound dull to bright depending on cable or DAP so what's neutral? Reference shmeference is what I say. These are all very good phones. Listen to them and find one that suits your ear. Don't buy someone elses reference. I'd have to listen more with more sources etc but if I had to buy now, I'd probably go with an Angie. The high end is smoother than I'm accustomed to in an IEM so I'd like to listen longer but it seems to be so in a good, extended sort of way and sounds pretty right. Those that like a bit of extra sparkle up there may not acclimate.