[goodvibes]

  but i think it is important to note the difference to people using what ever they can get their hands on for mastering versus a claim that a system is built for mastering. when thinking about the latter , to say a system is built for mastering is to benchmark with the best audiophile speakers and amps throughout history some well into hundreds of thousands of dollars for a installation into a room treated with many thousands of dollars of materials . if the layla and angie support their claim that their accurate enough to hold up to the mastering benchmark of those many tens of thousands of dollars and more systems $2,500 or more will be very little.

Rooms are not the same as speakers used and an IEM isn't dealing with rooms. The sort of sound treatments you're referring to is more about recording bleed than pure mastering where you would simple have to tweak the space a bit anyway. near fielding in space is a way around that as well. This is way off topic. I'm done. Believe what you like but I strongly disagree and have some 1st hand knowledge of it along with owning the sort of home kit that you think all good studios use. 

 

[MMJ2015]

 rooms are not the same as speakers used and an IEM isn't dealing with rooms. The sort of sound treatments you're referring to is more about recording bleed than pure mastering where you would simple have to tweak the space a bit anyway. near fielding in space is a way around that as well. This is way off topic. I'm done. Believe what you like but I strongly disagree and have some 1st hand knowledge of it along with owning the sort of home kit that you think all good studios use. 

im not sure what you mean by any of this by the way you are wording it?
 
a room has dramatic effect on speakers , it has to be setup right to get the most out of speakers this variable cannot be ignored when deal with mastering speakers the room affects the frequency response of the speaker and the slope (pink noise) .
 
the treatments are for alterations of the frequency response of audio arriving at the ears.
 
what makes the room so relevant to a iem designed for mastering is that the slope a room gives you would need to be imprinted on the iem in order to replicate the variables.
 
near fielding has never been associated with speakers designed for the purpose of mastering .
 
how is the consideration of all variables that effect a output of a system "way off topic" ?
 
"believe what you like"
there is nothing to believe only information to be gathered and consideration of all variables of a system (replication of mastering environment in a IEM design)
 
"some first hand knowledge of it along..............."
 
yet you do not present what it is and the variables for the conversation?
 
i will clarify my perspective on this in a clear list format to help you see where im coming from
 
Replication of mastering environment in a IEM format
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. begin by accounting for all the variables of a mastering environment that add up to give you the sound that arrives at your ear.
a. the treatment of the room
b. speakers ,amps, wiring. linear and non-linear effects on frequency response
c. final measurements of the mastering environment including what is heard at the ear drum itself
2. apply this to a design of IEM

 

[MMJ2015]

layla and angie on ebay lower prices

 

[goodvibes]

 

[tumburu]

  wow! , really? could you post some for me?
 

 
There are many. For instance: some of the most used mastering speakers are the BW 800d series. The 802d model retails for around 15k$/pair. AND you can find really good prices for such truly high end speakers (on Audiogon for instance) for a 2nd hand pair.
 
I mix on Barefoot MM27, which are active mid-field speakers for professional applications (they retail at around 10k$/pair), but they can be easily used for mastering. Barefoot makes an even bigger model which is in the 20k area, which wowed many engineers. So, there are many mastering grade speakers well bellow 100k.

 

[MMJ2015]

  There are many. For instance: some of the most used mastering speakers are the BW 800d series. The 802d model retails for around 15k$/pair. AND you can find really good prices for such truly high end speakers (on Audiogon for instance) for a 2nd hand pair.
 
I mix on Barefoot MM27, which are active mid-field speakers for professional applications (they retail at around 10k$/pair), but they can be easily used for mastering. Barefoot makes an even bigger model which is in the 20k area, which wowed many engineers. So, there are many mastering grade speakers well bellow 100k.

 
Those are awesome speakers, i would love to have them, but there is a big difference with people using what they have to master, and speakers made with the claim that they are built for specifically for mastering.

that said i surely would be grateful to use any of them to master.
 
when speakers are said to be made with the purpose of mastering they are bench-marked against the greatest audiophile speakers throughout history.
 
of the speakers you listed, i bet none of them would actually claim they are built for mastering.
 
here's a couple speakers BUILT FOR mastering.
 
http://egglestonworks.com/products/the-ivy-signature/
 
http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product_pola.shtml
 
http://www.kharma.com/exquisite-world/exquisite-extreme-grand-limited/
 
http://www.cnet.com/news/goldmunds-300000-speaker-system/
 
http://www.stereophile.com/content/mbl-radialstrahler-101e-mkii-loudspeaker
 
http://www.hansenaudio.com/GRAND_MASTER/
 
http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product_maxx.shtml
 
http://magico.net/Product/Q5/Q5_02.php
 
http://www.adam-audio.com/en/home-audio/products/olympus-sound-system/description
 
http://www.cnet.com/news/verity-audios-325000-monsalvat-speaker-system/
 
http://www.avalonacoustics.com/pdf/Sentinel%20Manual.pdf
 
http://www.grande-utopia-em.com/
 
http://apologue.goldmund.com/
 
http://www.jbl.com/images/media/DD66000_PI_EN.pdf
 
http://www.wilsonaudio.com/product_xlf.shtml
 
 
 
http://www.designeraudiovideo.com/kef-muon.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA3IKmBRDFx-P_rLyt6QUSJACqiAN8SSjQDwdZ0_ljvrnvfTz9idSTDDlz6GFP7S-dO_XUYhoC7qLw_wcB

 

[tumburu]

There's a difference between what a manufacturer claims and what a mastering engineer would use. I bet that the 'made for mastering' idea appeared after manufacturers understood what mastering engineers appreciate and like to use. But it is a really good advertising idea. If speaker manufacturers would only sell to mastering houses, they will go bankrupt.
 
Countless great recordings were done on the speakers I mentioned. There are many in that category. Take a look at what actual mastering engineers use if you want to understand what's happening in the 'real world' of mastering.

 

[MMJ2015]

i'm just really excited to see if layla and angie can really hold their own against hi end mastering speakers, if they do ill have to save up (never spend that much on iem before as layla cost)

 

[MMJ2015]

i feel where your coming from.
do you consider bob ludwig a "real" mastering engineer?
what does he use?

 

[robm321]

"mastering speakers" are just speakers tuned to be more neutral and revealing. There's no magic inside. They are the same as all other speakers. And they are usually fatiguing to listen to for entertainment. More simply put, "mastering speakers" is just a marketing term. 
 
Do you need to waste more space in this thread discussing it? No. 

 

[MMJ2015]

the whole point im trying to make is that it should be feasable to make IEM in the 2,000$ rough range that gives you the sound of a $300,000 mastering system, why would you make you goal to replicate a cheaper ,less accurate ,mastering system if you could aim higher and hit the mark of the high end systems that the best mastering engineers use?
 
i think JH audio can very well do it.

 

[MMJ2015]

  "mastering speakers" are just speakers tuned to be more neutral and revealing. There's no magic inside. They are the same as all other speakers. And they are usually fatiguing to listen to for entertainment. More simply put, "mastering speakers" is just a marketing term. 
 
Do you need to waste more space in this thread discussing it? No. 

it seems like a compartmentalized way of thinking about it.
 
I am terribly sorry if my ones and zeros have taken up so much space!
 
the thread said it was JH audio layla and angie. and these IEM's are created for the purpose of mastering. isn't this the perfect place to discuss it?

 

[tumburu]

MM, I want the same thing as you. Flat IEMs, or full sized headphones, for that matter. 
 
I will probably buy Angie. And if you'll be around I'll write my opinion about them, if they could be indeed used for mastering.
 
So far, in my book, IEMS still have to beat full sized hps before talking about speakers.

 

[MMJ2015]

hell yes.

 

[goodvibes]

  MM, I want the same thing as you. Flat IEMs, or full sized headphones, for that matter. 
 
I will probably buy Angie. And if you'll be around I'll write my opinion about them, if they could be indeed used for mastering.
 
So far, in my book, IEMS still have to beat full sized hps before talking about speakers.

Pretty much this but any headphone is difficult to master on, especially is reverb or harmonic type effects are needed. That said familiarity is important and mixing is something else altogether that sealed phones or IEMs are very useful for....besides listening to sweet tunes. Be interested in your take as well.

That list of speaker runs the gamut from covetable to things I couldn't stay in a room with.