Is the HD 650 for me?
Jul 21, 2012 at 11:16 AM Post #31 of 80
Sonic Defender, thanks for the really in-depth response, I really appreciate it! What genre of music has the most dynamics in your opinion? Unless genre has nothing to do with it and some songs in a genre have dynamics and some dont...
 
Jul 21, 2012 at 11:55 AM Post #32 of 80
Quote:
Sonic Defender, thanks for the really in-depth response, I really appreciate it! What genre of music has the most dynamics in your opinion? Unless genre has nothing to do with it and some songs in a genre have dynamics and some dont...

 
If we are talking dynamics and dynamic range, then you mean classical music. There is nothing with more dynamic range than a well-recorded classical album, which shouldn't be difficult to find.
 
Jul 21, 2012 at 1:26 PM Post #33 of 80
Here are some albums with very high dynamic range. Highest dynamic range albums at the top:
http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?sort=dr&order=desc
 
From my experience anything below DR10 sounds crap
 
Jul 21, 2012 at 2:09 PM Post #35 of 80
Quote:
Here are some albums with very high dynamic range. Highest dynamic range albums at the top:
http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?sort=dr&order=desc
 
From my experience anything below DR10 sounds crap

How sick is it that I went to the end of the list and immediately loaded up Venetian Snares + Speedranch 'Making Orange Things'?
 
And I recognized it as something I might actually listen to....but yeah....the dynamic range is non-existant.
 
Jul 21, 2012 at 3:14 PM Post #36 of 80
So I noticed something weird:
http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=Iggy%20And%20The%20Stooges
 
The 1973 album has an average dynamic range of DR11
and the new 'Remastered' version has a dynamic range of DR1
So I did a quick youtube search and found the 1973 mix and the 1997 remix:
1973:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCO_a_iRUsk
1997:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mZ0sSStW6Y
 
I know that its youtube and can't really judge the quality because of the crappy lossy encoding that was used, but the 1997 'remaster' sounds like total ****
The 1973 version doesn't sound good, because of the low bitrate lossy MP3 used, but you can notice more sound effects in the background rather than in your face.
 
Jul 21, 2012 at 10:45 PM Post #38 of 80
Hi Daniel521, well it isn't genre specific as a hard rule, but I think the target audience will be the biggest factor. If the music is intended for a younger consumer base, i.e rock, rap, techno, house, dance you can bet that it will be so compressed that the dynamics are long since gone. However, I have noticed that if the music itself is less complex, not to many elements, and mostly generated samples then even if the music is mastered loud, it might still have some fairly good dynamics left. Here is the waveform for a Chemical Brothers track I like to use as a test track, the song is called Come Inside.
 

 
You can see that it has certainly been mastered hot, but because the music is not that complex there are still some dynamics left (or so I interpret it as being due to this). Even when this song gets busy it sounds okay. Sure you can tell it is compressed, but it isn't a total green wash like the Green Day track I posted. Here is the amplitude analysis:
 

 
The total RMS Power shows that it is actually a moderately-loud track. And notice that we have thousands of possibly clipped samples, but the track actually sounds good. I have listened to this with a nice DAC from Audiolab and through my Auditor which is designed for studio use and the track sounds good. Based on what I have read, but sadly do not understand as it is hyper-complex, clipping can actually be dealt with in such a way that many end user DACs and analogue stages handle the clipped signals well enough that it doesn't sound clipped.
 
In general, from what I can tell, if the labels producing the albums don't feel it must be loud, they don't seem to care and it seems the recording engineers are allowed to actually craft recordings. Jazz, classical, better quality progressive music such as Peter Gabriel seems to not suffer from hyper-compression death. I can't imagine you could find a single well mastered rock or hip-hop, rap album anymore, but I could be wrong. At one point the labels decided louder was better and nobody cared about fidelity and dynamics any longer, or at least not young people. It has been good for me as I have by necessity had to branch out even further to find music that I enjoyed, and that sounded good. I am actually going back in time now and listening to some of the older recordings from the 70s and 80s that I used to think were dull. Now I realise they seemed dull when compared against hot mastered albums, but when I listen for actual dynamics, hands-down the older recordings actually kick butt. I am constantly trying to find new music to listen to and I wish I could offer more suggestions, but these opinions of mine are all I have. The facts are of course, subjective, but I think where dynamics are concerned more is better.
 
Jul 22, 2012 at 3:04 AM Post #40 of 80
Quote:
Thats unfortunate because I dont enjoy jazz or classical music that much. its a shame how most of today's music have no dynamics. If you ask me I think their just made lousily.


Nobody expects everyone to enjoy classical or jazz he just trying to tell thet those genres more easily show headphones weaknesses such as lack of sub-bass for HD650 for example which also affects how the rest of frequency range is presented. Also a lot of today's albums a recorded with too high recording level while classical or jazz don't
 
Jul 22, 2012 at 7:03 PM Post #41 of 80
Yes, today music for many is experienced quite differently than it once was. Back in the day, there were less things to distract people so music was really important in social interactions, at least in my experience and if you do any anthropological observing of past media (movies, documentaries, news clips) you can see that people didn't socially multi-task as much. Now, people seem to party together while showing You Tube videos, texting, gaming, web surfing all at the same time. It is actually quite interesting to watch. I am making huge stretches here, but I think this has stemmed from a long-term trend where the music isn't "consumed" in the same way by youger people, so I guess the labels have figured that to gain attention in this new reality you need to shout above the noise. In general, most people have lower quality computer audio so dynamics be damned, won't really hear them anyway. Most portable players and ear buds also don't really help dynamics much so if that is how people experience the music, why bother?
 
Then you have the small group of users that are represented in places like this, we care, but we are such a small group who is going to pay attention to us? At least the equipment manufacturers keep innovating and building for us. My hope is that in the future, when mastering is being done, two versions might be produced for the different audiences. Who knows, just a wild dream perhaps, but I think the technology is there, just not the will. Once the money is there, you can bet the will follows close behind.
 
Jul 22, 2012 at 7:51 PM Post #42 of 80
Quote:
thanks, sadly I dont listen to much of these albums

I like Jazz and Classical but not as much as Metal.
I think i am going to change my music preference radically in pro of the most natural musical reproduction enjoyment.
 
Jul 22, 2012 at 7:54 PM Post #43 of 80
It seems most of today's music is "formatted to fit your iBuds"  Reminds me of when 4:3 tv's were the norm and most movies were formatted to fit that aspect ratio and cropped nearly half the original film.  Thank god blu-ray didn't go down that road.
 
Jul 22, 2012 at 8:11 PM Post #44 of 80
yah, formatted is a good way of putting it. So anteberg, what will you be listening to then? Just curious.
 
Jul 22, 2012 at 8:14 PM Post #45 of 80
daniel521, what I would say is try some new music genres a little at a time. You might at first be "forcing" a little, but you will likely find that over time some things will grow on you. It is never a bad thing to have more music to listen to. I have some music that while perhaps it isn't the music that I most love, it is nonetheless music that I like, and music that also sounds really good,
 

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