[Music Alchemist]

  Ok, I said I was thinking about a tube amp for work, and a solid state for home.
 
I also said that my combined amp/dac budget for work and home is about $2000. Music Alchemist, no offense, but I'm not sure you're reading what I'm actually writing.

 
Yeah, I misinterpreted some of what you said. When you said $2,000 for everything, I thought that meant including the new headphones. If you can spend $2K on amps and DACs, and also afford to get the T1 and LCD-3 not much later, that could get you some great gear.
 
So did you want to buy multiple DACs for home and work as well? Or perhaps use the same one, bringing it back and forth, or use no DAC at all at one location?
 
With your budget, it may be a good idea to buy various things, compare them, then return what you don't like as much. (Though that won't tell you how you will like it with future headphones.) It would also be a good idea to compare with and without a DAC in each system, to make sure you hear a difference.

 

[jiminvictus]

The LCD-3s are 110 ohms, 102dB / 1mW. The T1 Teslas are 102 dB/1mw, 600 ohms. Your AKGs are more difficult to drive, IMO. So likely anything that drives them well is going to be fine for those other headphones unless you choose an amp that has some unusual problem with higher impedance power output. You could consult the AKG Q701, K701, K612 Pro, K77X, and K712 impressions/discussion threads to find out what amplifiers people are using (google make/model with head-fi as a keyword).

 

Right! I figure that if something can drive my K712's (which I love) then they can drive the other cans I'm interested in. Also, my Beyerdynamic DT770's have 250 ohms of impedance, so I need something with some oomph.
 
I created this account and started this thread hoping that some kind-hearted person who happens to know what my 712's pair well with would make a recommendation. I guess I'll go back to poring over old forum discussions.
 
Cheers mate!
 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Right! I figure that if something can drive my K712's (which I love) then they can drive the other cans I'm interested in. Also, my Beyerdynamic DT770's have 250 ohms of impedance, so I need something with some oomph.

 
Oh, I can tell you that with mathematical certainty. Hold on a sec, I will calculate the power requirements for you and give you concrete data. I can already tell you, though, the Magni already has far more than enough power. The issue with amps is that you may not want something so transparent, and instead want to color the sound, resulting in synergy and whatnot.

 

[cel4145]

Right! I figure that if something can drive my K712's (which I love) then they can drive the other cans I'm interested in. Also, my Beyerdynamic DT770's have 250 ohms of impedance, so I need something with some oomph.

I created this account and started this thread hoping that some kind-hearted person who happens to know what my 712's pair well with would make a recommendation. I guess I'll go back to poring over old forum discussions.

Cheers mate!

You are welcome

I have never compared the DT770 250s head to head with the AKG K/Q series that are all somewhat difficult to drive, but I'm pretty sure your DT770s are easier. Not hard to find out. Plug in your DT770s to a couple of different devices. Set them to your listening volume. Then plug in the K712s. Are the 712s typically louder on each device? Or softer? I'm betting always the latter. But I could be wrong.

Beyond making sure you have enough power, I'd still suggest caution about relying on recommendations about amp/headphone pairing "synergy." The differences between amps will be very minor (if any). And so what one person likes, you could easily not.

Since you have a good sized budget, why not settle on one DAC to start, and then order two different amps that interest you? See if you like one better than the other. Just make sure where you order from has a good return policy, and the return shipping is a worthwhile demo fee

 

[jiminvictus]

Haha, no worries.
 
I want a separate work and home setup. I can have either tubes or SS at work, but only SS at home, since I have young children (7, 5, and 2 - nothing is safe. I just bought a new car and less than 2 weeks later my 5 year old was "fixing" the bumper with a hammer.)
 
Eventually I'll assembly an end game system, but for now I want to experiment with mid-fi type stuff to figure out what I like and don't like.
 
I'm lucky to have an acquaintance nearby who has a lot of high end sound equipment he's willing to let me listen to. I used to really like the clarity of my Sennheiser HD280's, but they got really uncomfortable on my head after an hour or so of wear (I have a large head). The Beyerdynamic DT770's with the Creative soundblaster E5 amp/dac was another big step up in terms of both sound and comfort. I just got the AKG K712's about a month ago, so they're not even fully burned in yet, but I'm in love with them. They are hands down the most comfortable cans I've ever put on my head. The sound is really good, and they're even really pretty. So, I think my next step is a better amp/dac. After that, down the road, will be a genuinely high-end set of headphones.
 
Am I making sense? I feel like, since I'll have a different setup at work and at home, it's a good chance to try a few different things and get a feel for what I prefer before I move up eventually to my end-game system. So, you know, I want to try a few different amps/dacs that will pair well with the cans I have and the ones I intend to purchase.

 

[jiminvictus]

Since you have a good sized budget, why not settle on one DAC to start, and then order two different amps that interest you?

Sounds like good advice. A lot of people around this site seem to like Schiit products. I've never heard them though, and I've read less favorable reviews elsewhere. Any advice regarding dacs?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Here ya go!
 
AKG K712 PRO:
 

 
beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 250 Ω:
 

 
Now look at the output power of the Magni 2:
 
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 1.8W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1.2W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 260mW RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 130mW RMS per channel

 
Like I said, more than you need. The Magni 2 Uber has even more power than that.
 
There are two other main factors to consider, besides sheer output power.
 
1.) The quality of an amp's design. This is an ambiguous topic, but basically, some people say that higher-end amps sound better due to having better design, which has less to do with the output power.
 
2.) Whether you want to color the sound with your amp, and if so, to what extent. This would most likely involve tube rolling, which can get expensive, so I really recommend serious EQ (with a parametric equalizer) before spending so much cash.

 

[sealykojac]

I've got a Schiit Asgard 2 and while its a nice headphone amp I also have your future targeted LCD 3 and find the pairing to be far from ideal. It's got the power but end result is a dull sounding setup that doesn't do justice to the LCD. The OPPO HA1 blows it away (dac/amp) but costs a lot more. I personally feel your going to want / need something better than the Magni / Asgard for an amp if you eventually want to get into Audeze.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I've got a Schiit Asgard 2 and while its a nice headphone amp I also have your future targeted LCD 3 and find the pairing to be far from ideal. It's got the power but end result is a dull sounding setup that doesn't do justice to the LCD. The OPPO HA1 blows it away (dac/amp) but costs a lot more. I personally feel your going to want / need something better than the Magni / Asgard for an amp if you eventually want to get into Audeze.

 
Would you say that the fact that it sounds better from the higher-end setup is due to the design of the amp, not merely output power? (Which I alluded to in the previous post.) I've been researching what makes certain amps sound better than others, but there is so much confusing and complicated information out there.

 

[jiminvictus]

   
Oh, I can tell you that with mathematical certainty. Hold on a sec, I will calculate the power requirements for you and give you concrete data. I can already tell you, though, the Magni already has far more than enough power. The issue with amps is that you may not want something so transparent, and instead want to color the sound, resulting in synergy and whatnot.

Any information you can provide is more than what I started with, so I appreciate it.
 
For the record, I'm something of a moderate in terms of colored versus uncolored music. I'm not fond of super bright, happy, or muddy sound. I respect Sennheiser's ability to convey sound accurately. But, e.g., a sound studio recording of a string quartet versus a live performance won't sound the same. The sound of the live performance is going to be augmented by the acoustics of the room in which it is performed. The instrument makers have that in mind when they make the instruments. They're made to be played in a concert hall. (Confession: I started college as a music major but eventually switched majors and kept music as a minor). So, a studio recording of a Bach string quartet listened to with Sennheisers is going to sound very clinical and accurate. But it won't really sound like it would if heard the way it was written to be heard. A good concert hall will add a lot of texture to the sound.

So, when I'm listening to music, I'm not looking for overbearing bass and piercing high end, but I don't want to hear something that sounds like it was made in a lab either. Does that make sense? So, some coloration is fine with me, but not a lot.

As I tend to be with almost everything, my tastes lie somewhere in the middle.

 

[jiminvictus]

  Here ya go!
 
AKG K712 PRO:
 

 
beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO 250 Ω:
 

 
Now look at the output power of the Magni 2:
 
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 1.8W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1.2W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.0W RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 260mW RMS per channel

Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 130mW RMS per channel

 
Like I said, more than you need. The Magni 2 Uber has even more power than that.
 
There are two other main factors to consider, besides sheer output power.
 
1.) The quality of an amp's design. This is an ambiguous topic, but basically, some people say that higher-end amps sound better due to having better design, which has less to do with the output power.
 
2.) Whether you want to color the sound with your amp, and if so, to what extent. This would most likely involve tube rolling, which can get expensive, so I really recommend serious EQ (with a parametric equalizer) before spending so much cash.

This is very helpful. Thank you so much!
 
Regarding tube rolling . . . yeah, if I end up a bored old rich man, I might get into that. Otherwise, that's an abyss I'd prefer to steer clear of. I'm quite comfortable starting with an inexpensive tube amp just to get a sense of what they're like. I'd rather put more of my money into a SS amp/dac, since it seems like there's less mystery and more confidence involved with those purchases.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  This is very helpful. Thank you so much!
 
Regarding tube rolling . . . yeah, if I end up a bored old rich man, I might get into that. Otherwise, that's an abyss I'd prefer to steer clear of. I'm quite comfortable starting with an inexpensive tube amp just to get a sense of what they're like. I'd rather put more of my money into a SS amp/dac, since it seems like there's less mystery and more confidence involved with those purchases.

 
Ragnarok + Vali + Modi 2. Not saying you should get those, but that's a crazy combo within your budget.

 

[inthere]

I've done the tube rolling for you!
 
1st of all I want to say all the previous suggestions are awesome and you can't go wrong with any of them. I personally feel though the the "dullness" mentioned about the Asgard 2 is in comparison to some very high end amps that imo are slightly bright. At the end of the day it's personal preference 
 
Work amp/DAC: Aune T1 mk2 ($165) replace the stock tube with a telefunken E188CC. (about $339-399) total cost: $500-565
 
The amp section in the Aune T1 mk2 is actually very nice now and if you decide to use just the T1 you'll be fine BUT using the T1 as a DAC with that sweet Telefunken tube is going to sound better than anything else under $2000 with stock tubes. For your particular headphones (712-770's) I would suggest Asgard 2. for your work amp. (about $249) but if you'll like it a bit brighter at the top end you can also try the iFi iCan Micro ($299)
 
Cost for work setup: $760-855
 
Home setup if you're rooted to solid state, get Oppo HA-1 (about $1100) If you want a warmer sound, get the Schiit Bifrost ($349) and Asgard 2 again, they're cheap enough for you to get 2. 
 
this should bring you in right under your budget.
 
Cost for home setup: $600-1200

 

[cel4145]

Haha, no worries.

I want a separate work and home setup. I can have either tubes or SS at work, but only SS at home, since I have young children (7, 5, and 2 - nothing is safe. I just bought a new car and less than 2 weeks later my 5 year old was "fixing" the bumper with a hammer.)

Eventually I'll assembly an end game system, but for now I want to experiment with mid-fi type stuff to figure out what I like and don't like.

I'm lucky to have an acquaintance nearby who has a lot of high end sound equipment he's willing to let me listen to. I used to really like the clarity of my Sennheiser HD280's, but they got really uncomfortable on my head after an hour or so of wear (I have a large head). The Beyerdynamic DT770's with the Creative soundblaster E5 amp/dac was another big step up in terms of both sound and comfort. I just got the AKG K712's about a month ago, so they're not even fully burned in yet, but I'm in love with them. They are hands down the most comfortable cans I've ever put on my head. The sound is really good, and they're even really pretty. So, I think my next step is a better amp/dac. After that, down the road, will be a genuinely high-end set of headphones.

Am I making sense? I feel like, since I'll have a different setup at work and at home, it's a good chance to try a few different things and get a feel for what I prefer before I move up eventually to my end-game system. So, you know, I want to try a few different amps/dacs that will pair well with the cans I have and the ones I intend to purchase.

One of your kids is at that age where she/he would enjoy a good home theater setup, too, and the other is close. So won't be long before you can experiment with that as well

Seems like you have some good experience. Part of the fun is the exploration and trying things. It's a hobby that's a journey. People who shoot right for the end game are going to miss out on some of that fun. So yeah. It makes sense. And you should check the Head-Fi meetup section of the forum. If there's one coming up in your area, you probably would enjoy getting to listen to all kinds of equipment: http://www.head-fi.org/f/24/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers

I have the K612 Pros, and just got the AKG K7XX. I'm with you on AKGs.

 

[cel4145]

Sounds like good advice. A lot of people around this site seem to like Schiit products. I've never heard them though, and I've read less favorable reviews elsewhere. Any advice regarding dacs?

I had the Schiit Asgard 2. Good amp. The only thing I didn't like about it was that it's always running full blast regarding of what you are doing with it. It's a heater, and it both offended my green sensibilities AND tended to warm up my home office a good bit in the summer (I live in Michigan where I don't have central air).