[geek707]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimage Ok everybody, this is stupid. There is so much stupid here that my brains threatening to fall out. If it isn't already painfully obvious that this is getting no where and that both sides are being equally pissy, then you are beyond help. I don't understand the other side of this issue very well, so I won't speak for you all, but to try and help everybody here understand the skeptics (the proper ones, anyway), here goes. [size=medium]snip[/size] What an idiot. If you don't feel the need to account for placebo, that's fine. But that's Bad Science. In any case, this is how I've been trained. I am naturally skeptical of anything that doesn't make sense. If there is enough data that is sufficiently good, then that would be fine too. I wouldn't need an explanation; I wouldn't even need to take the data myself. I think I'm being very generous here. But I don't see any data. Challenging me to waste my time is a waste of time itself. As in the scientific community, the onus is on the bucker to buck the system. The system isn't going to do it for you. That said, I think that in the future we should all be able to get along just fine thinking exactly as we do right now provided that we agree to disagree. I don't expect you to satisfy me, and you shouldn't expect me to satisfy you. Great, so now we can be friends again, right?

Thank you.
You have done a much better job of explaining my position than I did.
And with that, I am out of here.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danamr No I keep asking a question that nobody here can answer. I would like to know why this might work. All anyone can say is: try it. I can point to serveral tweeks, that have come and gone over the years that have been what this appears to be, a way of removing money from someone pocket. Being right? I have been doing nothing but ask that someone put up some facts. Which clearly no one here can do. To bad.

A hundred years ago, give or take a decade or two, humans discovered this fun thing called radioactivity. We found that some things gave off radiation, but we didn't know why or how it happened. We could take guesses at it but nobody knew what the heck was going on, except that radiation was being given off. The equipment, technology, and theories weren't there, we had to wait, think, and invent them before we could solve the puzzle, which we eventually did after many years.

I believe were in the same stage in many aspects of audio, we hear the effects but have no way of explaining nor measuring them, and at best we can guess at the why & how. We can't explain it yet, but maybe in 20 years or sometime in the future we'll have a working theory for it.

 

[morphsci]

Shimage,

You are still a student. You do not understand what it means to be a scientist. It is more than understanding the nature of error. It is about accepting the limitations of our understanding and ability to quantify the things we deem important. A scientist knows the limitations of their science and themselves. Students do not.

 

[philodox]

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Originally Posted by ACAVant I assume your talking about sound reproduction equipment when measuring these things?

I thought we were talking about microwaves...

 

[ACAVant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox I thought we were talking about microwaves...

Nah, that's covered in next weeks topic... How to make your lean cuisine turn supreme.

 

[DaKi][er]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius I'm still waiting for an answer from the measurement people, seems like they're too busy arguing to answer questions. Once again: 1. How do you measure soundstage size & depth? What would you use to measure it with? 2. Detail. How are you going to measure it? What kind of graph, chart, or stat are you going to use to say that yes, this system indeed makes a '67 Fender Stratocaster sound like a '67 Strat instead of a '93 model? 3. Groove. What makes music sound alive. Where can one look up groove on a graph, chart, or spec?

Let me have a go at my own theory on this as I think I got something

Let’s compare the questions to 'how do you measure if you are having a good day?'
well there are 100's of variables to how you perceive as having a good day, there is no one measurable thing you can do to determine if you had a good day
the weather might have been good, no heavy traffic on the roads, just the right amount of milk on your cereal in the morning, you didn’t have to deal with the in laws, boss, foreign telephone monkey operators or something just as irritating like that
you don’t have to have absolutely every variable just right to have a very good day, combinations of everything possible that will influence your day will determine this and there is no set formula for what you need to be right for it to come out good

now certain specs and measurable qualities/quantities in audio is going to effect the way something sounds, the combinations of distortions, PSRR, crosstalk, thermal noise, amplifier topologies, passive and active components used their configurations and interactions between each other, the type of harmonics (how great they are, what order they are, odd or even, the general single number used to measure them overall doesn’t do justification to the amount of effect they have) introduced and their effect on different music types and the list could go on

Get some combination of these right and you may change the groove, detail, or whatever but there is no singe combination you need to have to get it right, there are many factors to deal with

The engineer in me (mostly hobbyist type at this stage) cant see how a cable so far back in the system can have an effect at the end of the audio chain, the effect of filters, transformers, more filters, voltage regulators to feed a pretty good DC voltage into devices that again have their own ripple rejection are going to swamp any effect that a <2m long power cable could ever have if it is of sufficient size to start with.
Also being in Australia with 240V over 120V for the same amount of power you only have 1/2 the current draw so that lessens the size requirements of power cables as well as our country has more stricter laws on cabling resulting in stock cables of better construction again still so I don’t see any mighty expensive power cable effecting any of my equipment at all, most of which is DIY made and I know the exact inner workings and unless anyone can convince me to buy one (beyond that of saying you cant knock it if you don’t try it, that isn’t going to be enough for me) or donate one to me, then I’m not going to try.

 

[Edwood]

Not a whole lot.

I found that crappy power cords can "starve" amps for power. Dynamics and overall volume is affected. This is mainly true for more powerful amps. It's quite subtle for solid state headphones amps.

-Ed