[Frankie D]

Could you explain why it makes sense for you to own both? I can understand owning a tube amp + neutral SS but I thought HM1 and 465 both were aiming for that neutral sound.
(on a sidenote, if I want perfectly neutral I plug my headphones in my HPA4, the HM1 with its comparatively full bodied sound and tone controls is the "fun" amp for me )

Well, I preferred the Zahl to the HPA4 ( though also a good amp). Somewhat of a long story. Anyway to simplify I wanted to get the best amp IMHO. That was the Zahl HM-1 based on auditioning in 2023. This year I heard the 465 and fell in love with it, bass in particular. Amazingly I was able to get one and did. However the Zahl is more neutral. The MK adds a bit more sweetness. However the Zahl has the ability to modify its sound. It can play in Class A or Class A Servo ( a little feedback). This will allow me to choose from essentially 2 amps in one chassis which I may prefer with a particular HP. I may also want to use it to feed the 465 for other comparisons. Its controls all operate in the analog domain. This interests me as there was a 2-channel company decades ago that did this called Cello ( designed by Mark Levinson ). These amps/preamps are still sought after for 2-channel. The preamp of the HM-1 reminds me of the Cello. So, since I put half down last year I said to myself, why not own both?
Once I have them side by side I may certainly change my mind, but hopefully I won’t and will enjoy the different presentations.
Both amps are at the top of their game IMHO.
Would a tubey sound like the Anniversary Envy have made more sense? Certainly can be up for debate, but I think the Zahl will be considered the more special piece in 10 years.
Oh, and I also have a thought in my heard of potentially harnessing my Viva Aurora Monoblocks for HPs. I may never do it, but they are there. The wiring might be expensive….

 

[Bootycall922]

I own a 465 and still have an HM-1 on order because it is that good IMHO. It is the best “neutral” amp I have heard. Others may push it and others aside, but a great amp will always remain a great amp.

Which is better? HM-1 or EF1000?

 

[Chronos]

Not feel like investing 3k in a cable, thats about what I paid for Susvara.

Still what would be a meaningful upgrade over Forza noir hybrid? Or just stop there?

I have a Forza Claire and DHC Chimera. I’m still trying out the Chimera but I will say that the Forza while probably not technically as good, is pretty close. I think the question I’m trying to answer is whether the significantly worse ergonomics of the Chimera are worth it. I think that says a lot about how good and what a relatively great value the Forza cables are. Ergonomics are excellent with the Claire.

 

[Frankie D]

Which is better? HM-1 or EF1000?

I did not care for the EF1000 when I auditioned it. So for me, HM-1. If you want tubes I would go Viva first ( well heck, I use them in my 2-channel system so home dog preference ) or Riviera. Envy might be of interest as well.

Please use mine or anyone else’s thoughts as an addition to your audition list. Please always try to audition yourself.

 

[chrisnyc75]

this is the second 're-review' that he's done recently

I like re-reviews every few years of enduring staples of the hobby like Susvara, to see how they stack up against what has come out and what the reviewer has learned & experienced in the intervening years. It always fascinates me how 99% of models come and go, replaced by something newer and 'more better' every couple of years, but a small handful of seminal models - Susvara, Arya, Utopia, HD600, HD800S - endure year after year and never seem to be bettered.

 

[chrisnyc75]

there was also only a short time period between a superlative Holo May review before going to the Rockna Wavedream signature.

To be fair, Goldensound also said there was a real case to be made for Wavedream to best May in a lot of ways. I ultimately went with May mostly because I have a hard time believing the cost differential is worthwhile, though I have to admit I do sort of resent being mandatorily tethered to HQPlayer for oversampling.

 

[psy472]

Well, I preferred the Zahl to the HPA4 ( though also a good amp). Somewhat of a long story. Anyway to simplify I wanted to get the best amp IMHO. That was the Zahl HM-1 based on auditioning in 2023. This year I heard the 465 and fell in love with it, bass in particular. Amazingly I was able to get one and did. However the Zahl is more neutral. The MK adds a bit more sweetness. However the Zahl has the ability to modify its sound. It can play in Class A or Class A Servo ( a little feedback). This will allow me to choose from essentially 2 amps in one chassis which I may prefer with a particular HP. I may also want to use it to feed the 465 for other comparisons. Its controls all operate in the analog domain. This interests me as there was a 2-channel company decades ago that did this called Cello ( designed by Mark Levinson ). These amps/preamps are still sought after for 2-channel. The preamp of the HM-1 reminds me of the Cello. So, since I put half down last year I said to myself, why not own both?
Once I have them side by side I may certainly change my mind, but hopefully I won’t and will enjoy the different presentations.
Both amps are at the top of their game IMHO.
Would a tubey sound like the Anniversary Envy have made more sense? Certainly can be up for debate, but I think the Zahl will be considered the more special piece in 10 years.
Oh, and I also have a thought in my heard of potentially harnessing my Viva Aurora Monoblocks for HPs. I may never do it, but they are there. The wiring might be expensive….

Looking forward to your detailed impressions between the MK 465 and HM1.

 

[Roybenz]

So between bliss and cayin ha300b mk2 wich is superior ? What are key differences?

 

[Chronos]

To be fair, Goldensound also said there was a real case to be made for Wavedream to best May in a lot of ways. I ultimately went with May mostly because I have a hard time believing the cost differential is worthwhile, though I have to admit I do sort of resent being mandatorily tethered to HQPlayer for oversampling.

I think you hit it on the head. May with HQPlayer or PGGB decreases the difference between it and Wavedream. Without the upscaler, there's no comparison, the Wavedream is on another level. Whether the cost is worthwhile, that of course is just a personal decision. I think if you have the funds, want the very best, and not have to deal with an additional upscaler, Wavedream is the easy choice.

 

[jonchard]

So between bliss and cayin ha300b mk2 wich is superior ? What are key differences?

Cayin in standard guise is "ok".

I suspect Bliss beats it in tonality and technicals with standard tubes. BUT, Cayin 300b mk2 with TOTL tubes is utterly spectacular (Elrog 300bMO £2500, Mullard CV6 £120, 22DE4 Grey plate rectifiers £250). Those TOTL tubes are £2k - £3k in additonal investment but worth every penny with the ability to switch out tubes to reflect mood or genre. Now its a subjective comment as i don't own the Bliss. But i have read many comments about Bliss and those that moved over to tubes for the most part, never went back!

The greatest difference i have heard from going from SS to Tubes is the sheer realness of voices, Instruments with real palpability, tonality that is unmatched, sounds popping from inky blackness, left and right becomes a true soundstage with instruments each given their own space. These things were never so clear to me on SS. I also think tubes allow you to hear the environmental queues far more clearly, echos and reverb adding to that realism and presence. I also feel that guitars feel much more fleshed out and full.

 

[marcus2704]

FWIW I went from a Bliss KTE to an Envy for my Susvara and have never looked back, I have owned many combinations of equipment and for me this is the best synergy I have been able to attain. Each time I sit down to listen, it feels like a special occasion, as it should do. I have the Performance edition Envy with Full Music tubes. I was looking at changing out the Susvara cable for a TOTL offering, but in terms of improving the sound I should probably focus my energy and finances instead at looking into Elrog tubes upgrades. This is my first tube amp, and so I am yet to hear first-hand the difference that tube-rolling can make, but the Susvara/Envy feels very much end of the road for me in this avenue of my journey so tube-rolling is something I would consider.

 

[jonchard]

FWIW I went from a Bliss KTE to an Envy for my Susvara and have never looked back, I have owned many combinations of equipment and for me this is the best synergy I have been able to attain. Each time I sit down to listen, it feels like a special occasion, as it should do. I have the Performance edition Envy with Full Music tubes. I was looking at changing out the Susvara cable for a TOTL offering, but in terms of improving the sound I should probably focus my energy and finances instead at looking into Elrog tubes upgrades. This is my first tube amp, and so I am yet to hear first-hand the difference that tube-rolling can make, but the Susvara/Envy feels very much end of the road for me in this avenue of my journey so tube-rolling is something I would consider.

OMG ... tube rolling is going to break your preconceptions in every way! When you hit the "ONE" that makes you sit bolt upright.... or look back over your shoulder wondering how it can come from behind you

My personal opinion about Cables is not to bother until you have exhausted the big differences. You might "refine" synergy, but it wont make the same presentational change that tube rolling will. Spend your money here and come back to cables. The first time you hear a tube that sounds truly holographic, most CV6, with Elrog ER300b/MO - you will regret not spending sooner! When that presentation is applied to all music, you will relisten to everything! I'm currently having fun with 6c5g / 6j5g but these get expensive fast and I'm not convinced they beat most CV6 derivative's! In the meantime, the standard cable is pretty decent!

Have fun!

 

[Whazzzup]

How come no one talks about Takatsuki? These power tubes are special, rectifier as well. Maybe they are not compatible with the tube amps of susvara owners. They are expensive but worth it

 

[DJJEZ]

How come no one talks about Takatsuki? These power tubes are special, rectifier as well. Maybe they are not compatible with the tube amps of susvara owners. They are expensive but worth it

They do. I have takatsuki 2a3s in my wa33 elite. They are great. Would like to try takatsuki 300bs.

 

[vonBaron]

@DJJEZ how they compare to Erlogs?