[pp312]

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Lol..it would be a first when someone called the he500 bright..

 
I certainly wouldn't; I currently own a pair. That's why I don't mention hifiman. "Most" headphones means by definition more than 50%.  

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 
Although they can certainly become more correct sounding and more listenable with darker sources. My DT990 Pro + HM-601 is a great pairing to my ears - still on the bright side, but perfectly acceptable to my ears and quite natural sounding.
 
I feel HE-500 is just about neutral. LCD2 that I auditioned sounded a bit on the dark side to my ears. HD650 with new, hard pads is quite neutral IMO, although with old, softer pads, they head into LCD2 direction and become slightly darkish. Stock Fostex T50RP sounds mid centric and quite rolled off in the bass and treble. I never heard a modified T50RP, but apparently, the better mods can fix the shortage of lows and highs, making this headphone more neutral. I always felt that even stock T50RP had something special going on in the mids and highs that even HE-500 doesn't have though. T50RP sounds more forward than HE-500 and in a way it is more lively.

 
I've no doubt that most people's headphones sound fine to them, otherwise why would they own them? Unfortunately that doesn't mean they have a balance in any way resembling live music.
 
HE-500 and LCD-2 (Rev1) are phones I own. Neither is bright or I wouldn't own them. HD650 I used to own--quite a balanced phone just a little rolled off. As for the stock T50RP, to me it sounded like something I would buy in K-Mart for $9.95. I don't know if I got a bad pair or what, but it sounded so horrible I couldn't bring myself to believe that any amount of modding could rescue it. I do agree with you that it had something going on in the mids and highs that the HE-500 doesn't have. That was the problem. 

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

 
Really? If you look at any pair of headphones bellow 100USD, I doubt you can find many rather warm than bright... Also, if you look at graphs e.g. on innerfidelity of more hi-fi cans, about 90% of phones (rough estimate) are still bright because of boosts in treble.

 
Under 100USD? That's an easy one, a lot of bass, warm or laid back headphones, not to mention theirs a large amount of Sennheiser's in this range, most of them warm sounding which is a typical Sennheiser house sound sig. Their is a small handful including those generic no named headphones that are slightly more brighter then anything else but it's a small ratio. Some of those cheap Koss can's, most of them have a dark or warm signature with a peaky treble, under 100USD Sony's? The XB series, warm and bassy, the XB1000 is probably the only one I'd classify as sort of bright, but it sounds weird to my ear's. Honestly this has been discussed before, but you can't just look at frequency graphs and response curves and determine it as the final verdict for choosing headphones, measurements give you an idea what a headphone may sound like, listening with your ear's determines how and what sound sig you would like as well as the other smaller sound characteristics such as mids, treble, low's and highs and any added emphasism onto them as well as coloration to the sound which you may or may not like.

 

[reddragon]

Quote:

 
I've no doubt that most people's headphones sound fine to them, otherwise why would they own them? Unfortunately that doesn't mean they have a balance in any way resembling live music.
 
HE-500 and LCD-2 (Rev1) are phones I own. Neither is bright or I wouldn't own them. HD650 I used to own--quite a balanced phone just a little rolled off. As for the stock T50RP, to me it sounded like something I would buy in K-Mart for $9.95. I don't know if I got a bad pair or what, but it sounded so horrible I couldn't bring myself to believe that any amount of modding could rescue it. I do agree with you that it had something going on in the mids and highs that the HE-500 doesn't have. That was the problem. 

 
 
i honestly have a pair of 10 dollars sony earbuds that is more listenable than the stock fostex t50rp. havent listened to neither in a while so dont want to comment on sound quality but sound signature wise and "listenability" wise, i will take the sony earbuds over the stock fostex t50rp all day.

 

[preproman]

There's some good discussions going on here.  
 
Lusi said it in a previous post.  What kind of sound signature are you looking for?  I picked the 500s.  Only because to me they are more enjoyable to listen to.  However, If I want to analyze the music or do some comparisons on different amps I would pick the Paradox.  The reason is they don't put any emphasis on anything.  I can really tell how much bass or treble a amp is putting out.  
 
The Paradox defiantly has a permeate place in my stable.
 
I did a compression with the 5LEs and the 500s - I picked the 5LEs because I found it to have a better tonal balance and a tad bit warmer up top which I happen to like.  I guess that's why I also like the LCDs, 650s, and other "warm" sounding headphones.  
 
Needless to say my top headphone at the moment is the HE-6.  Some may say these are bright headphones.  Not to me on my speaker amp.  They come off with a almost perfect tonal balance with being a tab bit tilted towards the bass.  But not like LCD bass.  The HE-6 don't extend down as far but they hit harder and is tighter and more accurate IMO.  I heard a older pair of HE-6s. That was a different headphone than the current one I have. (in the bass region).
 
Bottom line:
 
What sound sig do you like..

 

[MattTCG]

...

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

 
Under 100USD? That's an easy one, a lot of bass, warm or laid back headphones, not to mention theirs a large amount of Sennheiser's in this range, most of them warm sounding which is a typical Sennheiser house sound sig...

 
We have different opinions on this... I don't find Sennheisers to sound warm in general. But I do find the majority of other brands overtrebled and I have my opinion supported by measurements.
 
 

 
Honestly this has been discussed before, but you can't just look at frequency graphs and response curves and determine it as the final verdict for choosing headphones, measurements give you an idea what a headphone may sound like, listening with your ear's determines how and what sound sig you would like as well as the other smaller sound characteristics such as mids, treble, low's and highs and any added emphasism onto them as well as coloration to the sound which you may or may not like.
 

 
Do you think your ears are more accurate in assessing headphones than measuring gear? Have you tried to meet a doctor to see a graph of your hearing? I am 99.9999999% sure your ears are nowhere near to flat FR... Mine as well are nowhere near to it.
 
To be honest, I am not going to purchase headphones by looking for people's opinions on them anymore... If you want to be objective and buy exactly what you really want, it's not difficult to learn how to read those measurements (innerfidelity offers much more than FR graph only), it can help you very much to avoid dissatisfaction. If you know exactly why have you bought something and have arguments to support it, you will even spend less and be happier.
 
Choosing headphones (and other gear) by measurements is for sure more objective and less flawed than reading discussions where people keep telling you how do they perceive bass, mids or highs, level of detail etc. Even better is not purchase 1000USD phones only because your other 1000USD phones have a bit more treble/bass/less soundstage to your liking, and therefore you want to find a good sparring partner for them. You can always try to EQ them a bit... There is no audible distortion involved in EQing if you are careful enough. Etc. etc. And you can get your "more airy feeling" or many other aspects if you know which frequencies to boost or lower... But of course, EQing isn't capable to solve anything. It was just an example...

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

Needless to say my top headphone at the moment is the HE-6.  Some may say these are bright headphones.  Not to me on my speaker amp.  They come off with a almost perfect tonal balance with being a tab bit tilted towards the bass.  But not like LCD bass.  The HE-6 don't extend down as far but they hit harder and is tighter and more accurate IMO.  I heard a older pair of HE-6s. That was a different headphone than the current one I have. (in the bass region).

 
I find this very interesting... The situation about HE-6 and HD800. I wonder how much are those different opinions (a bit bright vs. neutral vs. warm in case of HD800) based on amps being coloured or non-coloured + enough powerful in their specs/not enough powerful. It would be nice to try to amp both phones with O2 and see the outcome.
 
I guess both phones would sound a bit bright in this case... But I have full respect for them. Especially for HE-6, they are for sure special.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

Do you think your ears are more accurate in assessing headphones than measuring gear?

 
To answer this question.
 
Assessing headphones for objective data - No.
 
Do you think measurements, graphs and charts (objective data) can tell you your personal preference. ie.. if both measure relatively flat.  but one is warm and one is bright.  I'm not talking about treble peaks and bass bumps.  I'm just talking warm and bright.  Do you think a graph can tell you which one you like?  Only your ears can tell you that.  If you go into a blind listing test, you only have your ears to tell you what sounds good to your liking..
 
This is highly debatable and can derail the thread.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

 
To answer this question.
 
Assessing headphones for objective data - No.
 
Do you think measurements, graphs and charts (objective data) can tell you your personal preference. ie.. if both measure relatively flat.  but one is warm and one is bright.  I'm not talking about treble peaks and bass bumps.  I'm just talking warm and bright.  Do you think a graph can tell you which one you like?  Only your ears can tell you that.  If you go into a blind listing test, you only have your ears to tell you what sounds good to your liking..
 
This is highly debatable and can derail the thread.

 
Yes, graph can exactly tell me how headphones are going to sound if you have gained some experience before and read some theory behind it... There exist books where you can find schemes of frequency graph divided into categories with subjective description like "airy", "laid back", "bass impact", "muddiness" etc. It's only about understanding. Of course, you cannot assess factors like distortion or isolation with your ears... You simply NEED measurements to stay objective.
 
So no - graphs cannot tell me my personal preference themselves. But as my preference seems to be very near to what (not only) I do consider to be neutral (this is the experience I gained before), it's very easy to choose which headphones to buy and not regret my money then.
 
You can easily just have one pair of headphones and experiment using an equalizer, sine waves etc... Boosting or lowering, think about how it sounds to you. This way, you can assess your personal preference (and also examine if those theory books speak the truth) quite easily without the need to spend thousands of dollars...

 

[preproman]

Valid points.  I can understand your view on this.
 
Tell me this.
 
If you go into a room (blind folded) with two different rig setups (rig A and rig B) ie.. headphones, amps and the hole nine yards.  You listen to both.  You pick (rig A ) the one you like and enjoy (sounds good to you) You say to yourself.  This is the headphone for me.(rig A)
 
Then you look at the graphs, charts, measurements.  It tells you the opposite of what you heard.  However, the other rig (rig B) tells you what you think your preference is based on your book experience.
 
Which one do you buy?

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

Valid points.  I can understand your view on this.
 
Tell me this.
 
If you go into a room (blind folded) with two different rig setups (rig A and rig B) ie.. headphones, amps and the hole nine yards.  You listen to both.  You pick (rig A ) the one you like and enjoy (sounds good to you) You say to yourself.  This is the headphone for me.(rig A)
 
Then you look at the graphs, charts, measurements.  It tells you the opposite of what you heard.  However, the other rig (rig B) tells you what you think your preference is based on your book experience.
 
Which one do you buy?

 
I would want to add plugin called TB Isone to DSP and then listen to both headphones... I have already estimated the ideal settings for improving the perception of space and depth to my head and ears and my experience with phones I have had in possesion so far is that the more neutral the sound is the more natural the effect of TB Isone is going to sound. I still haven't been successful in assessing why is that but if I do not EQ phones to be near to neutral, the sound with TB Isone is very unnatural. This can be spot in the best way with treble... Incorrect treble response can completely ruin the experience - in my experience.
 
Yes, this is subjective to my ears but as I am not allowed to use measurements, I need to have an option to help myself this way for example... Another way would be telling you to let me listen to the highest number of genres and recording qualities. Neutral phones are going to sound the best, they are the only allrounders in theory and practice as well.
 
In my opinion, neutral sounding phones sound the best across all genres and sounds... However, you cannot beat subjective excitement gained with Grado in rock music, HD600 for classical, Denon for electronica etc. This can fool my ears as well... unless I am allowed to use my methods of assessing the phones.
 
I do not want to have the most exciting phone... I do want to own the one that is going to reproduce music in the most natural way even though it is not the best sounding experience with them. Of course, if those phones are going to be unpleasant to me in some way, I am going to help myself a bit with EQing.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
I would want to add plugin called TB Isone to DSP and then listen to both headphones... I have already estimated the ideal settings for improving the perception of space and depth to my head and ears and my experience with phones I have had in possesion so far is that the more neutral the sound is the more natural the effect of TB Isone is going to sound. I still haven't been successful in assessing why is that but if I do not EQ phones to be near to neutral, the sound with TB Isone is very unnatural. This can be spot in the best way with treble... Incorrect treble response can completely ruin the experience - in my experience.
 
Yes, this is subjective to my ears but as I am not allowed to use measurements, I need to have an option to help myself this way for example... Another way would be telling you to let me listen to the highest number of genres and recording qualities. Neutral phones are going to sound the best, they are the only allrounders in theory and practice as well.
 
In my opinion, neutral sounding phones sound the best across all genres and sounds... However, you cannot beat subjective excitement gained with Grado in rock music, HD600 for classical, Denon for electronica etc. This can fool my ears as well... unless I am allowed to use my methods of assessing the phones.
 
I do not want to have the most exciting phone... I do want to own the one that is going to reproduce music in the most natural way even though it is not the best sounding experience with them. Of course, if those phones are going to be unpleasant to me in some way, I am going to help myself a bit with EQing.

 
 
 
What The...  Man you are complicated.  The source is a CD player 

 
Just joking..  

 

[Zoom25]

I didn't vote as I haven't heard the Paradox. Although you can't go wrong with the HE-500 because it sounds good with any genre I have listened to it with ranging from rock, pop, hip hop, rap, electro, house, dubstep, ambience, indie, psychadelic trance, trance, progressive etc. The other good all rounders I have are D2000, but the HE-500 is a far better all rounder. I've also heard the LCD-2 and Funktion One rigs multiple times and find the HE-500 up there with them. I find the bass quite good on the HE-500, not fully up there with LCD-2 but still very pleasant to listen to, especially for a long time. The one thing that HE-500 does have over LCD-2 is that it sounds more natural regardless of genre and it has better width, although LCD-2 got more depth. Regardless one can be happy with either of them. I initially was thinking of buying the HE-500 because it was cheaper than LCD-2 but worried about the bass as I primarily listen to electronica. One day I found a good deal on HE-500 so bought it, but felt sad about missing out on the bass. When I first heard them, the bass concern went right out of the window. Instantly liked them more than my D2000.
 
So while I don't know how the Paradox compares, I can only offer you how the HE-500 fits in with the other top range material. Hope this helps

 

[Zoom25]

Also regarding the HE-500 being bright, try changing from velour to pleather. It definitely helps calm things, especially for fast paced music that's mastered with a lot of high frequencies. Although for slower stuff and more vocals, the velour is better.