[cactus_farmer]

Have you heard the older classic hifiman he6/he500 line? The newer generation of the he1000, arya, etc are much softer are more stax like than the original ones made by the older designer. The Elex and Clear have more heft and weight than those headphone but not more than the classic hifimans. They're closer to the Audeze sound. I do have a pair of Elex and a variety of older hifiman headphones (he6, he5, he500, he4, etc)

OK, so in your opinion from most slam to least slam it's;

1). HE6
2). Focal/Audeze
3). Arya and other egg-shaped Hifiman

However, the guy above you said that the OG HE6 had less slam than Focals or Audeze...

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I think you can't rate slam by company. There are a lot of variables and it varies by model. For example in Audeze, the LCD-2C slam more than the LCD-3F. And I'm sure Stellia slams more than Utopia or Clear due to the Stellia being closed back and the others open.

Also, the HE6 needs much more amp than anything listed here to sound its best and to slam properly. If you want a headphone on the basis of slam being a top priority, get a closed or semi-closed set. It's about air-control, and no open set can match a closed set of similar design in this area.

 

[cactus_farmer]

Also, the HE6 needs much more amp than anything listed here to sound its best and to slam properly. If you want a headphone on the basis of slam being a top priority, get a closed or semi-closed set. It's about air-control, and no open set can match a closed set of similar design in this area.

I'm more going off the opinion of Andrew from The Headphone Show - he's somewhat obsessed with slam/macro-contrast/dynamics/impact.

He seems to think that HE6 has the most slam among planar headphones - but hasn't commented on how it compares to the slammiest dynamic-driver headphones (which tend to offer more slam than planars on average). So I would like to know if the HE6 merely slams harder than every other planar open back headphone, or if it slams harder than every other planar and dynamic-driver open back headphone?

Obviously, assume the HE6 is being fed with infinite power with an amp more than capable of utterly obliterating its drivers (as in, destroying them irreversibly) if you accidentally turn the volume pot up too much...

 

[bagwell359]

Just rumors. I also read people speculated whether LFF "baked" the drivers in an oven for a little bit to affect their tensioning, far fetched as that may seem.

From those who I know that heard an LFF Code-LEX (LFF's mod of the HE5-LE), they remarked that it sounded overly damped (e.g., more polite and smooth at the expense of dynamics). One of them drove it off of a First Watt J2.

i have a mint pair of HE5-LE, no Code mod, and it is dynamic, and rings like a telephone and has the wankiest FR. Smoothing the ringing and FR is bound to make it seem less dynamic.

Still an interesting insight.

 

[bagwell359]

OK, that’s an opinion that doesn't correlate well with the general consensus as far as I know, nor my own experience of having compared the Focal Clear MG Pro directly to something like an Arya - the Focal clearly slams harder and sounds more 'dense', yet doesn't have as spacious a sound.

Has anyone compared the OG Hifiman HE6 to the Focal Clear/Elex - which slams harder, and by how much?

The long cup HFM do not "slam", or in my preference term "impact". I own the HEX v2, and have heard 2 types of Ananda, 3 Aryas, HEK v2 and SE, and measure well to 20 Hz, but don't include slam.

The 3 best bass headphones I have heard for the combo of impact, fairly flat FR, timbre, and proper Q (speed/damping) are the HE-6 6 screw, Phi, OG LCD-4. The 6 screw in the ~70 hours I had it made my eyes slam shut over 100 times with its bass impact. The Phi which I've only heard for 4 hrs, didn't quite hit that, and the the LCD-4 does it more through this menacing timbre they have then the instant rise time impact of the 6 screw.

I've heard to OG Clear a few times, and its quick and hits pretty hard, but, it just lacks the fiendish bass impact of the 6 screw.

Closed backs with pumped up bass might possibly slam, but the sheer razor thin rise time impact of the 6 screw isn't there.

 

[cactus_farmer]

The 3 best bass headphones I have heard for the combo of impact, fairly flat FR, timbre, and proper Q (speed) are the HE-6 6 screw, Phi, OG LCD-4. The 6 screw in the ~70 hours I had it made my eyes slam shut over 100 times with its bass impact. The Phi which I've only heard for 4 hrs, didn't quite hit that, and the the LCD-4 does it more through this menacing timbre they have then the instant rise time impact of the 6 screw.

I've heard to OG Clear a few times, and its quick and hits pretty hard, but, it just lacks the fiendish bass impact of the 6 screw.

Closed backs with pumped up bass might possibly slam, but the sheer razor thin rise time impact of the 6 screw isn't there.

Great, how far behind in terms of bass impact are the HE6SE vs the HE6?

Do the HE6SE even manage to out-do the Focals for this quality?

 

[bagwell359]

I think you can't rate slam by company. There are a lot of variables and it varies by model. For example in Audeze, the LCD-2C slam more than the LCD-3F. And I'm sure Stellia slams more than Utopia or Clear due to the Stellia being closed back and the others open.
y biut
Also, the HE6 needs much more amp than anything listed here to sound its best and to slam properly. If you want a headphone on the basis of slam being a top priority, get a closed or semi-closed set. It's about air-control, and no open set can match a closed set of similar design in this area.

Agree on the brand comment. But unless closed backs are tuned carefully the slam most feel is there is a direct result of excess bass . Some people go ahead and add an additional bass shelf or 3 on top of it. It has an effect certainly, but it is articfical and amusical IMO.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I'm more going off the opinion of Andrew from The Headphone Show - he's somewhat obsessed with slam/macro-contrast/dynamics/impact.

Ok that's kind of unsafe and not helpful. It's better to state your own opinions.

He seems to think that HE6 has the most slam among planar headphones - but hasn't commented on how it compares to the slammiest dynamic-driver headphones (which tend to offer more slam than planars on average). So I would like to know if the HE6 merely slams harder than every other planar open back headphone, or if it slams harder than every other planar and dynamic-driver open back headphone?

I think the LCD-2C slams harder than the HE6SE V2. But this is from memory, I didn't do a direct comparison.

I am sure the TH900mk2 slams harder than any of the few planars I have (see my gear).

I am also fairly certain that a good closed back will outslam any open headphone of any kind, and this is just physics.

Obviously, assume the HE6 is being fed with infinite power with an amp more than capable of utterly obliterating its drivers (as in, destroying them irreversibly) if you accidentally turn the volume pot up too much...

Turning up the volume does not help. The amp has to supply enough current into the headphones and be fast enough to respond to the music while doing that. And from collective experience you need a lot more power to get the HE6 to sounds its best, more than most headamps supply.

 

[bagwell359]

Great, how far behind in terms of bass impact are the HE6SE vs the HE6?

Do the HE6SE even manage to out-do the Focals for this quality?

In the field of say sub $1k headphones I have heard, the 6 SE has very good bass, I'd think on the order of 9.5/10. Quick, solid, good body. But the 6 screw leaving out the impact is 10.0, and putting in the impact its like a 14.0. There is no real comparison. I listen to my 6SE's with two bass shelves in part because I don't use the rear screens, so a bit of bass is lost. +1.2 db 70 Hz down and add +2.4 40 Hz down on a parametric.

I only know these Focals: OG Clear which under 80 Hz is no match for the 6 SE, EQ or not. The Stellia however is pretty solid, but is vastly more expensive. The Utopia OG has a lot of speed and reality packed in there, but under about 45 Hz it lacks a bit of heft compared to the 6 SE still I'd gladly take one.

 

[bagwell359]

I am sure the TH900mk2 slams harder than any of the few planars I have (see my gear).

I don't call it slam. The TH900 mk2 is +8 db above neutral from 20-100 Hz, and rises steadily from flat at 300 Hz to that +8 at 100Hz. Its anything but neutral. The HE-6 Series takes EQ very well. Throw that curve on any HE-6 - with enough headroom. Bet its a lot closer.

I am also fairly certain that a good closed back will outslam any open headphone of any kind, and this is just physics.

Yes, any closed headphone will have more reverberations and cancellations - all other things being equal. Might increase enjoyment, but it is less accurate to the incoming signal.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I don't call it slam.

Do you have a pair? They certainly slam.

The TH900 mk2 is +8 db above neutral from 20-100 Hz, and rises steadily from flat at 300 Hz to that +8 at 100Hz. Its anything but neutral. The HE-6 Series takes EQ very well. Throw that curve on any HE-6 - with enough headroom. Bet its a lot closer.

I don't think so. Increased bass is not equal to slam. We're talking about impact, which in the TH900mk2 is due to the semi-closed design and speed of the driver.

The HE6 simply cannot control the airspace as well as the TH900, especially since most of us mod them with open grilles. Even stock, the Fostex is way ahead on slam.

 

[Oregonian]

All due respect to contrary opinions, and understanding we all hear differently and drive them differently, but having had two HE-6 OG (one 4 screw and one 6 screw), fed by my vintage Pioneer Spec system via speaker taps, nothing I've tried matches them for bass slam, nor bottom end thump. And yes, I've tried some Focal, owned the TH-900, currently still own a LA-7000, Audeze LCD-2's, and love them all especially the bass but HE-6 rank tops for this guy. As does the HE-6SE, of which I've owned both versions, and I'd even rank the HE-500 ahead of the other non-HFM cans. All the aforementioned HFM cans have been extensively modded, as were my TH-900's and of course my LA7000 which Mark Lawton did his magic. I guess the definition of "slam" may be the sticking point here. All good...........

Of course, none of the others were fed via speaker taps from a killer vintage amp system, so there is that.................

 

[elwappo99]

The long cup HFM do not "slam", or in my preference term "impact". I own the HEX v2, and have heard 2 types of Ananda, 3 Aryas, HEK v2 and SE, and measure well to 20 Hz, but don't include slam.

The 3 best bass headphones I have heard for the combo of impact, fairly flat FR, timbre, and proper Q (speed) are the HE-6 6 screw, Phi, OG LCD-4. The 6 screw in the ~70 hours I had it made my eyes slam shut over 100 times with its bass impact. The Phi which I've only heard for 4 hrs, didn't quite hit that, and the the LCD-4 does it more through this menacing timbre they have then the instant rise time impact of the 6 screw.

I've heard to OG Clear a few times, and its quick and hits pretty hard, but, it just lacks the fiendish bass impact of the 6 screw.

Closed backs with pumped up bass might possibly slam, but the sheer razor thin rise time impact of the 6 screw isn't there.

This pretty much my experience as well. Original HE-6 is only beaten by Abyss headphones or LCD-4 in terms of punch and slam. I haven't heard a dynamic come close to these.

 

[bagwell359]

Do you have a pair? They certainly slam.

The way you see it and many others it is slam. The way I hear it, its obnoxiously over the top, and isn't playing the music as recorded. Take the ASR FR graph and EQ a 6 SE to have the same curve (use a parametric) and viola - now the 6 SE is as distorted as the 900 II. Not my cup of tea, I'm outnumbered here, but, I am allowed to opine non the less.

Own a pair? No. Now if I had heard them EQ'd I might like them, but, no EQ? No.

not
I don't think so. Increased bass is not equal to slam. We're talking about impact, which in the TH900mk2 is due to the semi-closed design and speed of the driver.

Yes, if it was EQ'd to flat (which I have not heard) I suspect it might still have some very good impact or slam.

The HE6 simply cannot control the airspace as well as the TH900, especially since most of us mod them with open grilles. Even stock, the Fostex is way ahead on slam.

According to most FR is the single most important factor in headphone listening. EQ both to the same curve. Preferably something neutral, and then compare. Result will not be nearly the same. You know that louder is perceived as better, so the 900 bass under 100 Hz is much louder (and much too loud) compared to say at 300 Hz. Its well above even the Crinicle curve which is polluted by listener preference under 100 Hz.

 

[cactus_farmer]

"...and love them all especially the bass but HE-6 rank tops for this guy. As does the HE-6SE, of which I've owned both versions, and I'd even rank the HE-500 ahead of the other non-HFM cans..."

Hmm you say 'as does the HS-6SE' - does that mean the HE6SE comes quite close to matching the HE6 in regard to bass slam?

Because the HE6 isn't easily obtainable these days (if at all) - so if a reasonable substitute exists in the HE6SE I would go for that - but only if it got within striking distance of matching the bass slam quality...?