[musicman59]

Quote:

 
Oh we certainly have a pretty nice size group here....but how many among this group have been able to directly compare any-random-speaker-amp versus the likes of Dark Star, EF-6, Levinson, B22, or whatever else?  I personally don't consider the speaker amp talk to be be hype at all.  I just think it's a bit one sided that the handful of high power high performance HP amps (none of which I have any intention to ever buy) are automatically condemned as inferior to a 1973 Daewoo

It's not that speaker amps aren't appropriate, they are, it's that the few HP amps that are also appropriate shouldn't be dismissed so easily as is common
 
Sure you pay twice as much for the same thing that route...but it doesn't deserve dismissal

 
As far as monoblock hype....yeah, that's hype that accidentally started due to the fact that you and HC are probably the most active in this thread and are both running blocks.  Nevermind that your blocks cost you both less, combined, than a lot of the stereo amps in use (HC really offset that FVM figure!

)  No doubt Elysian's FW stereo + Placette can stomp all of our amps, mono, stereo, or HP, at any price

 
I have a pair of HE-6 hardwaired with a Zeus cable and currently using the Audeze velour pads. Since I own the Dark Star and I also own a Threshold T50 (which I bought exclusively to drive the HE-6 before I got the DS) I have made the comparison you are asking.
 
In my personal opinion they are so close sounding that it is very difficult to determine which one is better. I also made the comparison using an Aleph 3 and Aleph 5. I can tell the sound our the Aleph 3 was similar to the the T50 and DS but the Aleph 5 was not as sweet and relaxed sounding.
 
So I have the DS in one of my Hi-Fi speaker systems and the T50 in th eother complementing the WA5-LE and will keep both for now.
 
By the the way, you can get the T50 for about $1,000 or even better a Threshold SA3e for about $1,750.

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
I have a pair of HE-6 hardwaired with a Zeus cable and currently using the Audeze velour pads. Since I own the Dark Star and I also own a Threshold T50 (which I bought exclusively to drive the HE-6 before I got the DS) I have made the comparison you are asking.
 
In my personal opinion they are so close sounding that it is very difficult to determine which one is better. I also made the comparison using an Aleph 3 and Aleph 5. I can tell the sound our the Aleph 3 was similar to the the T50 and DS but the Aleph 5 was not as sweet and relaxed sounding.
 
So I have the DS in one of my Hi-Fi speaker systems and the T50 in th eother complementing the WA5-LE and will keep both for now.
 
By the the way, you can get the T50 for about $1,000 or even better a Threshold SA3e for about $1,750.

 
It's good to hear good things said about some of the higher end HP amps and HE-6.  Not that it's not more fun with speaker amps, and usually cheaper, but it's nice to her alternatives all the same.   I think the fear of "I can't treat it like a headphone" scares a lot of folks away.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
I have a pair of HE-6 hardwaired with a Zeus cable and currently using the Audeze velour pads. Since I own the Dark Star and I also own a Threshold T50 (which I bought exclusively to drive the HE-6 before I got the DS) I have made the comparison you are asking.
 
In my personal opinion they are so close sounding that it is very difficult to determine which one is better. I also made the comparison using an Aleph 3 and Aleph 5. I can tell the sound our the Aleph 3 was similar to the the T50 and DS but the Aleph 5 was not as sweet and relaxed sounding.
 
So I have the DS in one of my Hi-Fi speaker systems and the T50 in th eother complementing the WA5-LE and will keep both for now.
 
By the the way, you can get the T50 for about $1,000 or even better a Threshold SA3e for about $1,750.

 
 
Do you know what class their new amps operate in.  I can't seem to find the info on the web site.  

 

[Happy Camper]

I have a pair of HE-6 hardwaired with a Zeus cable and currently using the Audeze velour pads. Since I own the Dark Star and I also own a Threshold T50 (which I bought exclusively to drive the HE-6 before I got the DS) I have made the comparison you are asking.

In my personal opinion they are so close sounding that it is very difficult to determine which one is better. I also made the comparison using an Aleph 3 and Aleph 5. I can tell the sound our the Aleph 3 was similar to the the T50 and DS but the Aleph 5 was not as sweet and relaxed sounding.

So I have the DS in one of my Hi-Fi speaker systems and the T50 in th eother complementing the WA5-LE and will keep both for now.

By the the way, you can get the T50 for about $1,000 or even better a Threshold SA3e for about $1,750.

This is the point of the discussion. How much was the Dark Star vs the T50? I saw a t50 on Canuck Audio asking $795 Can. There are a half a handful of "headphone amps" made specifically with the 6s in mind that will compete. They are basically speaker amps with a headphone circuit. Just because they are made from a vendor in the headphone market doesn't mean they are a typical headphone amp as evidenced by your using it in a speaker rig. Sure, the other side of the coin could read "It's a headphone amp that can drive speakers". How many headphones could use the Dark Star to it's capacity? RSA or Schiit is not at issue here. They are offering a speaker amp to the headphone market as they seen an opportunity and there is no fault in that. And the few who do compete well performance wise, deserves due accolades. But another person could take an old amp, recap it, put it in a shiny new case and make a killing on the elitist. Singlepower comes to mind with wall warts in a case.

This is not directed at anyone and certainly not musicman that may be on other side of the opinion. Just using his post to back my assertion of speaker amps being an economically viable option. I believe we've covered the topic too much and it's time to move along. Nothing more to be seen at this wreck.

PS, were it not for the elitist, we'd not have the HE-6, HD-800 or the other reference hps we have today. So I thank them for pushing our hobby to better performance.

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

This is the point of the discussion. How much was the Dark Star vs the T50? I saw a t50 on Canuck Audio asking $795 Can. There are a half a handful of "headphone amps" made specifically with the 6s in mind that will compete. They are basically speaker amps with a headphone circuit. Just because they are made from a vendor in the headphone market doesn't mean they are a typical headphone amp as evidenced by your using it in a speaker rig. Sure, the other side of the coin could read "It's a headphone amp that can drive speakers". How many headphones could use the Dark Star to it's capacity? RSA or Schiit is not at issue here. They are offering a speaker amp to the headphone market as they seen an opportunity and there is no fault in that. And the few who do compete well performance wise, deserves due accolades. But another person could take an old amp, recap it, put it in a shiny new case and make a killing on the elitist. Singlepower comes to mind with wall warts in a case.
This is not directed at anyone and certainly not musicman that may be on other side of the opinion. Just using his post to back my assertion of speaker amps being an economically viable option. I believe we've covered the topic too much and it's time to move along. Nothing more to be seen at this wreck.

 
I certainly don't disagree with you.  Dark Star is a horrid VFM any way you slice it, and speaker amps for HE-6 are excellent VFM.   I think paradox's point was just to make a point that the validity of speaker amps, and even the "idealness" if speaker amp's isn't to the exclusion of some of the same high-end headphone amps that would be recommended for, say, HD800, T1, LCD2/3, and for that matter formerly HD650 (for which Dark Star was once a choice amp.)  I don't think anyone was attempting to say that speaker amps aren't a great idea for HE-6.  Most of us here are using speaker amps.  And I've said all along the powerful HP amps are really just speaker amps. 
 
But Paradox's point was valid in that, if one were to glance across most HE-6 discussions one could get the idea that you need a speaker amp and/or that HE-6 is a one-sided upgrade path like stats and therefore a bad choice if you want to own several headphones, or need your amp to be small, so someone that is looking for a compliment for their T1 or HD800 or LCD2 or whatever may overlook HE-6 when in fact they may already have/be looking at an excellent (if overpriced) amp for it, such as what Rawrster was talking about yesterday about not wanting to have a big speaker amp for a headphone rig when there are indeed alternatives that are just as good but pricier.
 
For me, the big speaker amps are part of the appeal of HE-6.  I still have my impressions forthcoming on my new power amp

 

[dleblanc343]

Quote:

 
 
Here we go with this word again..

Lol, I could use the word "praise", but hype was the first thing that came to mind. I believe that the emotiva's are good tough; but since I haven't tried it, I cannot judge.

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

 
 
Do you know what class their new amps operate in.  I can't seem to find the info on the web site.  

 I think the STASIS series is Class A (quivalent to the T series) and the S/XXXX series is class A/B.

 

[wuwhere]

Quote:

 
 
Do you know what class their new amps operate in.  I can't seem to find the info on the web site.  

I found this at their site.
 
What is the difference between the XA.5 and the X.5 amplifiers?

The XA.5 amps are Class A (low rail voltage and high bias current) and the X.5 amps are high bias AB (high rail voltage and lower bias current).

 

[Elysian]

Though if you're looking at Nelson Pass amps, the general consensus I've heard from people I generally trust is that First Watt is a better proposition for the HE6 than Pass Labs.
 
Does the Dark Star not sound good with other headphones?  That's a shame.  I would have thought it would be awesome with all orthos.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

Though if you're looking at Nelson Pass amps, the general consensus I've heard from people I generally trust is that First Watt is a better proposition for the HE6 than Pass Labs.
 
Does the Dark Star not sound good with other headphones?  That's a shame.  I would have thought it would be awesome with all orthos.

 
 
E,
 
That's I meant to say - A First Watt from Reno.  I get them mixed up for some strange reason 

 

[Elysian]

All First Watt amps are Class A   Are you planning on getting a First Watt?  Mark at Reno Hifi is a great guy to work with and I recommend him wholeheartedly.  I had a great buying experience through him.  I love my J2 and the only way I see myself giving it up is if I got a SIT-1.
 
http://www.firstwatt.com/
Quote:

Dick Olsher famously remarked that “The first watt is the most important watt.” This sentiment has also been expressed by others as “Who cares what an amplifier sounds like at 500 watts if it sounds like crap at one watt?” With this in mind, I created First Watt in 1998 as a "kitchen-table" effort, exploring unusual low power amplifiers with an emphasis on sound quality.

Small amplifiers have a number of advantages over “big iron” in that very high quality can be achieved with simple Class A circuits using little or no feedback.

 
http://www.firstwatt.com/j2.html
Quote:

For over 10 years First Watt has been pushing the design envelope with simple high performance Class A amplifier circuits, and when a better transistor like this comes along, it can mean getting the same distortion performance with a lot less feedback, or lower distortion with the same amount of feedback. The J2 does amplifier does both,and that helps make it a better sounding amplifier than the best of its predecessors.

 

[preproman]

Quote:
 
 
I have a question.
 
If the first watt is so important and much more important than the rest of the watts.  Why is pure class A more desirable?  Why not just get a good quality Class A/B amp.  With these amps at least the first few watts are class A.  Also much more affordable (at times).

 

[.Sup]

Or to put it even more simply, even when listening to smooth jazz with the HE6, there's no substitute for heavy metal



Someone needs to give this little guy a try, 45 wpc into 8 ohms, on sale for $299:



The HE6 could be driven from the taps on the back, and more efficient headphones from the front jack.

If its to any use to you I tried the HE-4 and HE-500 with it and it is a disappointing combination. Both sound much better with a 250mV headphone amp. Straight off the speaker taps the sound is bloaty, lacking detail, smeared, bass overpowering, the only positive thing is the sound is full but all speaker amps I have heard have fuller sound than headphone amps.

Some images in my flickr.

 

[elwappo99]

Quote:

If its to any use to you I tried the HE-4 and HE-500 with it and it is a disappointing combination. Both sound much better with a 250mV headphone amp. Straight off the speaker taps the sound is bloaty, lacking detail, smeared, bass overpowering, the only positive thing is the sound is full but all speaker amps I have heard have fuller sound than headphone amps.
Some images in my flickr.

That's super disappointing to hear. That's a pretty good looking unit and the added bonus of having a headphone out and taps sounded very nice.

 

[.Sup]

That's super disappointing to hear. That's a pretty good looking unit and the added bonus of having a headphone out and taps sounded very nice.

Exactly why I bought it, the looks are nice and because I have a CA dealer really close by. I was deciding between this and Rotel RA 5 I think. I had the DacMagic and was really happy with it so I had high hopes. It sounds nice through not so revealing speakers. HD800 also get bass through the powerful headphone out but become a 130€ headphone. I think in theory a pro amp in this price range would be better. These headphones need neutrality without any interference from the amp, just enough clean power.