[Mad Lust Envy]

Stock pleathers are such a massive failure. Softens up everything, blurring the definition of instruments, and sibilant as all hell, even in all that darkness. Not to mention the gaping void known as the pleather's upper mids.

Velours tightens everything up, raising the clarity by a fairly noticeable amount, and defining instruments to the point of making the pleathers sound like they're restricting the HE400. No contest. Velour all the way.

I wish i had a chance to try jerg padded HE400s.

 

[soundeffect]

Velours

 

[pdrm360]

So far
 
Pleathers: +1
 
Velours: +2

 

[cheuh]

I'm curious... if velours are so much better, then why did Hifiman decide to use pleathers instead?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

The same reasons many companies use things that the community deems inferior and get modded to hell and back. Lack of R&D and extensive testing, perhaps. They probably focused on the actual drivers, and less on the pads. I mean if you look at the HE-4 pads... the mechanism to attach them is THE WORST THING EVER. I mean, What were they thinking?

 

[pdrm360]

Stock pleathers are such a massive failure. Softens up everything, blurring the definition of instruments, and sibilant as all hell, even in all that darkness. Not to mention the gaping void known as the pleather's upper mids.

Velours tightens everything up, raising the clarity by a fairly noticeable amount, and defining instruments to the point of making the pleathers sound like they're restricting the HE400. No contest. Velour all the way.

I wish i had a chance to try jerg padded HE400s.

 
The velours tighten everything up but (IMHO) they make the trebles very harsh.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

The treble is actually harsher on the pleather, but because the sound is so diffused and dark on the pleather, it takes your focus away from the the treble. Your ears pay attention more to the darkness on the pleather than the grating, sibilant treble.

Because the velour is better defined, and clearer, the treble is easier to pay attention to, which is why it may sound more grating to you.

This is a case of clarity being a downside... to some people. You're simply more used to the veil the pleather has over the velour.

There is a similar amount of treble on both, but the pleather has a sharp rise from the upper mids to it's treble peak, whereas the velour has a stronger upper mid response that gradually meets the treble peak in comparison. So in the case of add some, lose some, the balance between bass, mids, treble, is more linear on the velour. You have to remember, when you add something, you take away from something else. Or when you take away, from something, you add somewhere else.

Less bass = more mids or treble
More bass = less mids or trebles more bass. You're compensating the lack of upper mids with volume. I'm surprised the treble isn't destroying your ears.

 

[pdrm360]

The treble is actually harsher on the pleather, but because the sound is so diffused and dark on the pleather, it takes your focus away from the the treble. Your ears pay attention more to the darkness on the pleather than the grating, sibilant treble.

Because the velour is better defined, and clearer, the treble is easier to pay attention to, which is why it may sound more grating to you.

This is a case of clarity being a downside... to some people. You're simply more used to the veil the pleather has over the velour.

There is a similar amount of treble on both, but the pleather has a sharp rise from the upper mids to it's treble peak, whereas the velour has a stronger upper mid response that gradually meets the treble peak in comparison. So in the case of add some, lose some, the balance between bass, mids, treble, is more linear on the velour.

 
If you listen to Metallica's 'Black Album' by both the velours and the pleathers then you will know what I’m talking about.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Less bass = more mids or treble
More bass = less mids or treble


and so forth...


In the case of the HE-400 pleather vs velour

Velour = more upper mids, meaning that to our ears, something else isn't as pronounced, even if it's technically the same. That can either be less perceived bass, or less perceived treble. Some are saying less bass. That is understandable, though it's actually the same bass as before, just the upper mids are meeting up with the bass. Some say less perceived treble glare. That is also understandable, as the transition from mids to treble isn't as steep.

It really depends on what your ears are focusing on. Either way, the main change is the upper mids. If you change your volume to volume match the upper mids of the pleather vs velour... the pleather will sound both more bassy and sharper on the treble.

Because the upper mids are so recessed on the HE-400's pleather, I can totally see why some of you say the pleather has more bass. You're compensating the lack of upper mids with volume. I'm surprised the treble isn't destroying your ears.


I've heard the HE-400 enough. I owned it twice. There is no comparison to me. The pleather is a mess next to the velour, but if a mask of veil is what you like, then yes, the pleather is easier on the ears. Everything is more muddy on the pleather.

 

[pdrm360]

Less bass = more mids or treble
More bass = less mids or treble


and so forth...


In the case of the HE-400 pleather vs velour

Velour = more upper mids, meaning that to our ears, something else isn't as pronounced, even if it's technically the same. That can either be less perceived bass, or less perceived treble. Some are saying less bass. That is understandable, though it's actually the same bass as before, just the upper mids are meeting up with the bass. Some say less perceived treble glare. That is also understandable, as the transition from mids to treble isn't as steep.

It really depends on what your ears are focusing on. Either way, the main change is the upper mids. If you change your volume to volume match the upper mids of the pleather vs velour... the pleather will sound both more bassy and sharper on the treble.

Because the upper mids are so recessed on the HE-400's pleather, I can totally see why some of you say the pleather has more bass. You're compensating the lack of upper mids with volume. I'm surprised the treble isn't destroying your ears.


I've heard the HE-400 enough. I owned it twice. There is no comparison to me. The pleather is a mess next to the velour, but if a mask of veil is what you like, then yes, the pleather is easier on the ears. Everything is more muddy on the pleather.

 
I never change the volume when I switch between the pleathers and velours.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Got the velours in and liking the sound so far. Jergpads are being made by modulor and should be here next month!

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Let me know if you've got any more questions, I'll try my best to answer. I'm really enjoying the setup and want to try the he500 with the D100 in the future.

I've really been looking at the Audio-gd lineup to see if I can get something going for both 400 and 500. Maybe something that can be easily modified with chips to different sounds.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the matrix mini-i and the he400. I am looking to change up my amp/dac because I would like to see if there is a difference in treble(less). I also liked the option of balancing since I have heard that it improves the sq. another that I looked into wasthe yulong d100 mkii. any opinions/advice?

D100s don't pair well with the he400. Too bright for my taste, although for classical and acoustic it's ok. Excellent detail retrieval. Any other genres its too bright. Great match for warmer HPs and even the DT880s.

The matrix Mini-I straight from the dac is a good pairing. The mini has a warm sound and the he400 does well. I find that the mini-I with the e9 as an amp produce a very favorable sound of a nice balance in warmth and brightness. Luscious warmth is the best way i can describe it. A little loss in the soundstage dept (vs using the mini-I's built in amp) but nothing major. Be sure to use the optical or coaxial side of the mini-I. A cheap transport would be the Hifimediy Usb 2 async with optical out for $60. Huge gain in SQ vs the laptops optical out.

If i am using a laptop with cd quality tunes(16/44.1) what is the difference of using a usb vs using a converter to go to optical? Also just wondering why you suggest using a seperate amp, is the matrix amp not very good?

USB jitter and the Mini not being async. Quite an audible difference specially on a lower quality pc. It's not just a matter of matching cd quality to a cd quality rated transport. The async usb to optical or coaxial would be a good upgrade for the mini-I, even the budget brand I mentioned.

The amp on the mini-I is decent although can be too warm for my liking on certain songs. Sinatra sounds fantasic along with r&b, motown, acoustics, and music that benefit from a warm and laid back sound. Hard rock, edm, pop, etc can benefit from a more neutral amp using the mini-I as a dac. Again this is my taste, head over to the mini-I appreciation thread and you'll see other peoples opinion on it. Never found one that paired it to he400 however.

 

[Lohb]

I've really been looking at the Audio-gd lineup to see if I can get something going for both 400 and 500. Maybe something that can be easily modified with chips to different sounds.

Audio-gd Compass 2 8741? It makes more sense to go with the warmer Wolfson chips one ($429) and then move to (or buy same time)the high-detail ESS chip if need-be vs buying stock ESS model ($499) from the get-go....then you have the OPA upgrades as well for even more dial-in... Earth/Moon/Sun modules
 
That is one tweakable DAC/amp !

 

[Makiah S]

The same reasons many companies use things that the community deems inferior and get modded to hell and back. Lack of R&D and extensive testing, perhaps. They probably focused on the actual drivers, and less on the pads. I mean if you look at the HE-4 pads... the mechanism to attach them is THE WORST THING EVER. I mean, What were they thinking?

 
I hear you there 

  Audio-gd Compass 2 8741? It makes more sense to go with the warmer Wolfson chips one ($429) and then move to (or buy same time)the high-detail ESS chip if need-be vs buying stock ESS model ($499) from the get-go....then you have the OPA upgrades as well for even more dial-in... Earth/Moon/Sun modules
 
That is one tweakable DAC/amp !

 
I honestly like NOS and PCM dacs the best, both of my hifiman DAPS have the nicest sound signiture! The AGD 1oES2 with with ESS Sabre 9018 is great with my Dt 880 and HE 400 but it makes the w1000x to thin, the w1000x how ever sounds a smidge heavier and a little warmer SE out of the HM 801 and pb1, that said I hope to move to a Refrance 10.33 at some point my self
 
still wish I'd know about the compass 2 when I got my M Stage :/ 

 

[nicholars]

Stock pleather vs velour is a bit pointless because you need to just mod the pads or buy some jergpads and they are far better than both. You would be silly not to either mod the pads or buy jergpads because it makes a big difference to the quality and is not that hard to do.