[amigomatt]

Hi there,
 
I've posted this in the high end thread as well as the full size headphones thread.  I'm beginning to think I may need to take a step up to the higher end of the headphone world.  I would appreciate any help or opinions from experienced head-fiers.  I have loved my journey so far and have amassed quite a number of headphones over the last few years, many you can see in my signature and others listed in my profile.  If I give a brief overview of what I already like and dislike about my present cans, I'm hoping some of you could steer me in the right direction as to where I might go next.
 
All my cans are being driven through an HRT Microstreamer either on its own, or through a Bravo Audio Ocean tube amp or Fiio E11 if they require more juice.  I don't need to listen at excessively loud levels to enjoy my music either.
 
HD598 - 
 

1. Like - Soundstage, liquid smooth presentation, nice midrange bloom and warmth
2. Dislike - slow attack makes some genres sound too polite.  Slight lack of bass impact, slightly nasal/boxy midrange makes certain acoustic instruments sound a bit veiled and unnatural

​
HE400 -
 

1. Like - speed and dynamics, textural quality to the sound, exciting presentation, great neutral but impactful bass.  Dark but detailed.
2. Dislike - treble spikes, midrange recession

​
K702 -
 

1. Like - Great detail and clarity with the right recording, separation, midrange transparency
2. Dislike - Overly bright, accents the upper treble at the expense of the body of sound, not enough bass impact

​
MA900 -
 

1. Like - Speed of treble presentation presents a very dynamic and lively sound to me that just engages me.  Some sort of slower decay makes everything sound with a bit more bloom.  Great clarity and instrument separation.
2. Dislike - could do with more bass impact.  The midrange and treble are far enough from neutral as to make certain instruments sound in unnatural.

 
NAD HP50 -
 

1. Like - all round neutrality, very balanced presentation that sounds just right most of the time.  I hear the music, not the headphones.  Great bass response and impact, lush and thick midrange.  Slightly warm, rolled off treble but managing to retain great detail.
2. Dislike - Slightly closed in feeling in soundstage (still great for closed back though).  Slightly too polite at times, so can seem a little tame and unexciting, if accurate and pleasant.

​
GRADO SR80 -
 

1. Like - speed and attack, especially treble.  Openness and detail in mids and treble.  Some recordings sound surprisingly life like in the mid range.
2. Dislike - Lack of a full bass, lack of soundstage, slightly thin sounding at times.

​
Give those impressions, I'm hoping some of you may be able to deduce what I want.  My ideal headphones would be fast, detailed (but not treble heavy), realistic and close to neutral midrage, great open soundstage, great dynamic ability to cope with the large scale orchestral stuff I listen to.  Deep and detailed bass with impact.  I know that the HD800s should be on the shortlist, but I worry they may be too analytical for my tastes and lack the warmth I want from certain music.  From my present headphones, I wish I had a pair that had the midrange lushness of my NAD/598s, the speed and dynamics of my MA900s, bass detail of HE400 with the clout of the NADs (even maybe a little more).  I am yet to be happy with the treble of any of my phones.  I wish the HE400s didn't have those spikes and the NADs had a bit more extension and excitement at the top end.   Am I asking for too much?  T1s?  HD700s?  HE500?  Any help appreciated!

 

[davidsh]

Hd700 = no go in my opinion.
I'll recommend he-560

 

[amigomatt]

Thanks for your input.  Do you think the 560 would be a significant improvement over the 500?  Have you had chance to compare them?

 

[Happy Camper]

Sounds like a modded HE6 with speaker amp candidate.

 

[CrocCap]

deleted

 

[amigomatt]

Thanks for your input. So, we're looking at HE-560 and HE-6 up to now. I understand that the HE-6 would outclass the 560 in performance but I'm concerned about its power requirements as I gather it's one of if not the hardest headphone to drive in the world! The easier amping requirements make the 560 a more attractive prospect in that I would also have the ability to play them in various scenarios and through various sources as opposed to being landlocked to one location with the HE-6. If the HE-6 really were that next level better than the 560s, I might still consider them though. Could I run them from the speaker taps on my old Arcam Alpha 8 integrated amp?

Has anybody directly compared the HE-560 to the HE-6?

 

[CrocCap]

deleted

 

[davidsh]

The AKG k1000 is harder to drive than the HE-6.
 
I think the HE-560 outclasses the HE-500, but the HE-500 isn't exactly put to shame in said comparison. Haven't heard the HE-6 yet

 

[amigomatt]

Ive heard the HE-6 and the 560 out of a gsx mk2 at a meet, and i still think that the he6 has something that the 560 doesnt quite have.  It has a texture to where it almost feels as if you are playing the instrument. 
But the 560 is lighter, more comfortable, easier to drive, and cheaper. 

The AKG k1000 is harder to drive than the HE-6.

I think the HE-560 outclasses the HE-500, but the HE-500 isn't exactly put to shame in said comparison. Haven't heard the HE-6 yet

It's helpful yet persuasive remarks like these that make these decisions difficult. The problem is, I think I'd find it hard to arrange getting a listen to either of these units here in the UK, let alone compare them side by side. The very convenience, comfort, ease of powering and all round positive rep of the 560s is alluring but it's those fine yet telling qualities that CrocCap describes that makes certain headphones that little bit special and I really want to move towards something excellent. Does the HD800 or Audezes rank alongside these hifimans for my needs?

 

[davidsh]

I think you'll be pressed to be really satisfied with hd800. I know I am.

 

[amigomatt]

  I think you'll be pressed to be really satisfied with hd800. I know I am.

For what reasons?  Many find them to be the benchmark by which all other world class phones are judged, don't they?  My music tastes are extremely broad, but I listen to mainly large scale orchestral works with jazz, big band, metal, death metal, solo piano and prog rock/psychadelic rock getting a lot of time as well.  Is it their brightness that might put me off?  I ultimately want a realistic sound with great dynamic slam, soundstage and separation.

 

[davidsh]

The HD800 is picky with recordings and probably also gear as many claim. To me, this makes it challenging to get an enjoyable listen. I think much of this is because the HD800 has a slightly wonky upper mids/treble behaviour besides being bright. On the other hand this might be a double edged sword, as I think this is connected to the superb soundstage and imaging of the HD800 somehow. 
 
I think HD800 is a headphone that is very hard to really understand, even more so to describe as somehow it just sounds slightly 'off' yet still mostly linear and neutral. This kind of make the HD800 inconsistent across music and genres.
 
Another thing. I haven't heard the HD800 as being capable of delivering the same bass quality as the HE-560 for example. Not that it isn't good, but HE-560 just get it right.
 
HE-560 is definitely an easier listen and easier to describe as well. Almost too polite in some ways but that is highly dependent on the recording.
 
My remarks regarding HE-560 is from memory, though, as I had them for a good week some months ago.

 

[amigomatt]

  The HD800 is picky with recordings and probably also gear as many claim. To me, this makes it challenging to get an enjoyable listen. I think much of this is because the HD800 has a slightly wonky upper mids/treble behaviour besides being bright. On the other hand this might be a double edged sword, as I think this is connected to the superb soundstage and imaging of the HD800 somehow. 
 
I think HD800 is a headphone that is very hard to really understand, even more so to describe as somehow it just sounds slightly 'off' yet still mostly linear and neutral. This kind of make the HD800 inconsistent across music and genres.
 
Another thing. I haven't heard the HD800 as being capable of delivering the same bass quality as the HE-560 for example. Not that it isn't good, but HE-560 just get it right.
 
HE-560 is definitely an easier listen and easier to describe as well. Almost too polite in some ways but that is highly dependent on the recording.
 
My remarks regarding HE-560 is from memory, though, as I had them for a good week some months ago.

Thank you for that, I understand what you mean.  It's like these K702s I bought last week.  I really can't get used to them but every so often, a certain recording shines with them and they sound like the best headphone I've ever heard.  But, their presentation is ultimately going to lead to less head time for me.  I'm slightly worried about the 'politeness' you describe.  I'm after a dynamic and engaging listen with great scale and slam.  I get really good across the board just a little polite from the NAD HP50s.

 

[davidsh]

 

  The HD800 is picky with recordings and probably also gear as many claim. To me, this makes it challenging to get an enjoyable listen. I think much of this is because the HD800 has a slightly wonky upper mids/treble behaviour besides being bright. On the other hand this might be a double edged sword, as I think this is connected to the superb soundstage and imaging of the HD800 somehow. 
 
I think HD800 is a headphone that is very hard to really understand, even more so to describe as somehow it just sounds slightly 'off' yet still mostly linear and neutral. This kind of make the HD800 inconsistent across music and genres.
 
Another thing. I haven't heard the HD800 as being capable of delivering the same bass quality as the HE-560 for example. Not that it isn't good, but HE-560 just get it right.
 
HE-560 is definitely an easier listen and easier to describe as well. Almost too polite in some ways but that is highly dependent on the recording.
 
My remarks regarding HE-560 is from memory, though, as I had them for a good week some months ago.

Thank you for that, I understand what you mean.  It's like these K702s I bought last week.  I really can't get used to them but every so often, a certain recording shines with them and they sound like the best headphone I've ever heard.  But, their presentation is ultimately going to lead to less head time for me.  I'm slightly worried about the 'politeness' you describe.  I'm after a dynamic and engaging listen with great scale and slam.  I get really good across the board just a little polite from the NAD HP50s.

Something along those lines. HD800 and k702 are very different headphones, though. HD800 doesn't sport the same plasticy and sterile tendencies after all.
 
I'd like to point out that some find HE-560 bright. I don't. I think they are just a wee bit lush in their presentation. I'll just go dig out the review I made.
 
In comparison with hd800 I found them to be less dynamic sounding and less detailed. It still brings plenty of clarity across the spectrum. So in short they are about clarity, coherency and musicality, yet with a neutral approach. And I found bass to be outstanding.
 
Perhaps HE-6 might be what you seek? Haven't heard them personally.
 
I'd like to add just one more thing. I could imagine myself 'retiring' from this hobby with the HE-560 based on my findings when I had them. They are indeed outstanding with a great presentation that is nice to listen to, yet never boring.

 

[amigomatt]

Why did you not keep them then? I really must try to seek out a pair to test out. I may start asking around here if there's any uk owners who would be kind enough to let me listen.