[Scubadevils]

Ok so very new to this forum and the whole notion of needing a headphone amp etc. I'm well stocked up when it comes to my DAPs and IEMs and enjoying that process, the IEM bit and subsequent addiction quite new, prior to recently, I had a couple of go-to sets I've used for a few years. I do however need a better means to drive IEMs and headphones, both via my laptop (and I'm considering something like the iFi Hip DAC for that, depending on what budget I determine and further research) and also surprisingly (for me), for my main audio system - this is where I'm confused...

I have an Audiolab 6000a amp and 6000cd CD player. I only bought in the last year or so and would have assumed it could drive larger headphones like the HD650 - it absolutely does not though, unless there is a setting I'm unaware of. The sound is flat and absolutely lifeless on the HD650 when I try via the 6000a - for contrast, they sound great on my ZX300 or ZX507 via high gain - I get they could probably do even better with further amplification (and I need to get a balanced cable for the HD650) but as is, worlds apart to the 6000a.

Any reason why this might be? I'm guessing the headphone amp in the 6000a just isn't powerful enough, but I am surprised. With that in mind, what would be a good addition to this system so as to enjoy the likes of the HD650 with my CDs and vinyl?

Thanks.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Ok so very new to this forum and the whole notion of needing a headphone amp etc. I'm well stocked up when it comes to my DAPs and IEMs and enjoying that process, the IEM bit and subsequent addiction quite new, prior to recently, I had a couple of go-to sets I've used for a few years. I do however need a better means to drive IEMs and headphones, both via my laptop (and I'm considering something like the iFi Hip DAC for that, depending on what budget I determine and further research) and also surprisingly (for me), for my main audio system - this is where I'm confused...

I have an Audiolab 6000a amp and 6000cd CD player. I only bought in the last year or so and would have assumed it could drive larger headphones like the HD650 - it absolutely does not though, unless there is a setting I'm unaware of. The sound is flat and absolutely lifeless on the HD650 when I try via the 6000a - for contrast, they sound great on my ZX300 or ZX507 via high gain - I get they could probably do even better with further amplification (and I need to get a balanced cable for the HD650) but as is, worlds apart to the 6000a.

Any reason why this might be? I'm guessing the headphone amp in the 6000a just isn't powerful enough, but I am surprised. With that in mind, what would be a good addition to this system so as to enjoy the likes of the HD650 with my CDs and vinyl?

Thanks.

I think you have some very nice gear there! Most integrated amplifiers these days, even very good ones, are unable to drive high impedance dynamics like our Sennheisers properly. I am not at all surprised at your findings. One problem could be if the pre-out cannot be switched to line-out mode (fixed, max volume). It is dangerous and a bad idea to control volume at the source for several reasons. Ideally, your amp would have a line-level output that could drive a headamp correctly and safely.

Probably the best amplification option for Sennheiser 600/650/6XX is a tube OTL amp. If you can find a used (or new) Valhalla 2 it will do a very good job even with the stock tubes. They build quality and layout is far from perfect but for the price of a used one it's a good deal. Going up in price and hopefully quality, Feliks amps get a lot of love around here on headfi.

In solid state amps I can recommend the Meier Corda Jazz-ff as a very smooth and musical solid state amp with a small footprint and good power which also does splendidly with Audeze LCD-2C and the likes. For more money a lot of the Violectric offerings are fantastic.

 

[Scubadevils]

Thanks very much for the detailed reply. Would the line-level output be a function you select? - the only options I can see on the amp are to switch between integrated / pre / pre-power, plus some adjustments for balance/filter/trigger. It does specify an internal headphone amp which was why I thought it would be sufficient but definitely not, good to hear that is common on modern amps. Thanks for the suggestions, I will start some research!

This is the spec of the internal headphone amp -

Headphone Amplifier
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD)	< 0.01% (1kHz, 50mW)
Output Impedance	2.35Ω
Load impedance	20-600Ω

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Yes, there might be an option to switch pre-out to line out. I looked at a pic of the back panel and I don't see a physical switch. I would have to check the manual. I think it is unlikely we're gonna be lucky with this. I selected my integrated amp from among a few nice amps, most of them didn't have line out but the one I chose did. It's becoming less common unfortunately.

The specs don't have enough information to know for sure but I am sure there are no mainstream integrated amps with good headamps.

 

[Scubadevils]

Yes the 'proof is in the pudding' as they say, the HD65O sound awful from the amp therefore the headphone amp inadequate!

I've limited options in Ireland for access to various brands, not helped by Brexit of course but I'll do some more research in the knowledge now that my existing setup won't be sufficient, that had been a big uncertainty for me. The iFi Zen Can is a tempting low cost toe in the water option that I can get from Amazon so might just try that.

Thanks again for your help - I had tried Google to figure it out but my various search methods hit a brick wall!

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Yes the 'proof is in the pudding' as they say, the HD65O sound awful from the amp therefore the headphone amp inadequate!

I've limited options in Ireland for access to various brands, not helped by Brexit of course but I'll do some more research in the knowledge now that my existing setup won't be sufficient, that had been a big uncertainty for me. The iFi Zen Can is a tempting low cost toe in the water option that I can get from Amazon so might just try that.

Thanks again for your help - I had tried Google to figure it out but my various search methods hit a brick wall!

Your description of flat and lifeless is a key in declaring the amp unsuitable. I know this very well since I've listened to my HD 600s out of at least 10 different devices. There are pointless, uninformed arguments all over this forum about the need for more amp than would seem necessary, but the facts speak for themselves. I know the symptoms, I know the cure, and I'm a doctor with my surgical mask

I'm undecided about the zen can. On the one hand it does look like ifi has a pretty good track record in portable devices having a lot of power and sounding good. And, I was surprised and pleased to see ifi designed it to swing 15V which I believe is the magic number for 300 ohm Sennheisers. I believe some amount of thought went into that one. On the other hand, I'm against portable (or portablish) gear. You could look into Icon Audio UK. Their stuff is manufactured in China but designed and sold from the UK and there are some fans here. I'm not sure it's the best gear in the world or the best value, but it's somewhat easier economically. Oh, you should see about Musical Fidelity. They have some headphone amps and the products generally are quite smashing. It used to be a UK brand but was bought by the Germans within the last year or two. I don't know if Musical Fidelity still has a UK business presence of some kind.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I looked at the doc for your amp and I think it would be risky connecting a headamp to it. There is a very high risk of damaging your speakers, headphones, and ears without a fixed line-level output. The so-called "Pre mode" could work but it's still quite dangerous because if the mode is changed accidentally or when the unit comes off standby the next time you use it, bad things could happen. I'm sorry, I really have no workaround for this.

 

[Scubadevils]

Ah ok, that's a shame - thank you very much though, a potential disaster averted! While it's a nice amp, it is still budget so I guess this is one of its limitations. Looks like it won't be the 10+ years amp that my Marantz PM7200 previously served me!

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Ah ok, that's a shame - thank you very much though, a potential disaster averted! While it's a nice amp, it is still budget so I guess this is one of its limitations. Looks like it won't be the 10+ years amp that my Marantz PM7200 previously served me!

In the old days when everybody was running tape decks off their receivers and integrated amps, a line out was always available. Now that cassette and other kinds of tape recorders are mostly a memory for the vast majority of new gear buyers, it seems to be going the way of the dodo-bird. It's a big issue for people who want to run headamps or even tape recorders off their systems.

I was deciding between several integrateds and I chose the Musical Fidelity because it had a real line out.

You have a good amp and you should enjoy it. I don't have any suggestions for a safe headamp setup without getting an additional amp though. Sorry

 

[Scubadevils]

I thought I'd try an old mixer from my long-gone DJ days and surprisingly, it worked! Need to do some EQ tweaking etc but the first record I put on is coming through loud and clear with lots of life at maybe 30% volume capacity. Technics 1210 running straight to the mixer and then I'll line out to the amp. CD possibly not an option as its a CD transport, not sure if the amp DAC will do its job when running via the mixer, one to test later after work.

 

[iFi audio]

iFi Hip DAC

I'd take it into account if you need a portable DAC/amp combo, otherwise our ZEN DAC is essentially hip-dac for desktop usage