[Frank I]

Quote:

Ironic considering you have never heard the Lyr.

The comments I made had nothing to do with the Lyr. I never said I hear or did not hear the LYr. I corrected you misinformation on the power of the V200 and how they do sound with the V200.Your on the other hand have no V200 and never heard one and yet your telling people its better than the V200. Your the one who is making comments on gear you never heard or owed. My comment is easy if you can buy a V200 and Olias has confirmed my impression as well as he owned both the V200 is a great match for any headphone I have heard it with and especially the hE500

 

[kixxit]

So.....  Maybe I'm late to the party (where did everybody go?) but everything's finally here:  Lyr, Burson, AH-D7000, HE-500.  After going thru all the posts I'm thinking my impressions might be quite the meh experience.  Nevertheless - if anyone is interested......

 

[wje]

Quote:

So.....  Maybe I'm late to the party (where did everybody go?) but everything's finally here:  Lyr, Burson, AH-D7000, HE-500.  After going thru all the posts I'm thinking my impressions might be quite the meh experience.  Nevertheless - if anyone is interested......

 
We're enjoying the music on our HE-500s.  

 
Congrats on getting your gear all together.  It looks like you've made some good decisions.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Quote:

So.....  Maybe I'm late to the party (where did everybody go?) but everything's finally here:  Lyr, Burson, AH-D7000, HE-500.  After going thru all the posts I'm thinking my impressions might be quite the meh experience.  Nevertheless - if anyone is interested......

Why are they Meh?
 
Quote:

 
We're enjoying the music on our HE-500s.  

 
Congrats on getting your gear all together.  It looks like you've made some good decisions.

This^^^

 

[kixxit]

Once I started listening, I was expecting a lot more "drama" between the headphones and amps I've selected - ortho vs closed, solid state vs tubed.  The differences are certainly there, but with the HE-500/D700 getting such raves along with the Schiit/Burson, I thought for certain the winners in my comparison and final choices would be dramatically obvious.  So far, they are not.  This is not to say I am underwhelmed by the quality of the gear, but more so the differences between the gear.  And yes, I had unrealistic expectations due to reading so many forums.  Listening for oneself is paramount.
 

 

[wje]

Quote:

Once I started listening, I was expecting a lot more "drama" between the headphones and amps I've selected - ortho vs closed, solid state vs tubed.  The differences are certainly there, but with the HE-500/D700 getting such raves along with the Schiit/Burson, I thought for certain the winners in my comparison and final choices would be dramatically obvious.  So far, they are not.  This is not to say I am underwhelmed by the quality of the gear, but more so the differences between the gear.  And yes, I had unrealistic expectations due to reading so many forums.  Listening for oneself is paramount.
 

 
Like you, I've often been caught up in "analysis paralysis" by reading the various opinions of pieces of gear.  Most of this information tends to be posted by regular, longer-term posters here on this site and not necessarily an individual who just signed up yesterday.  However, when one makes the leap and they buy gear where the company doesn't have a return policy, then they suffer because they have to factor in some depreciation / loss into the price when the list their item for sale.  After 2, 3, or 4 cycles of wash, rinse, repeat ... one often starts to wonder why are they making so many decisions with the great gear purchases that are not living up to their expectations.  This can be quite frustrating.  I've been there, done that.
 
So, essentially, I've taken a somwhat differnet path.  Granted, my path or my solution that has made me the happiest isn't necessarily the most portable.  However, it's what brings a big smile to my face as opposed to having to live with product "x" even though it has one or two shortcomings that we have to learn to live with.  In that case, I've found that a good integrated amplifier or receiver from a few years back, and affixed with speaker taps tends to work the best for me.  The best sound is presented and very few, if any, shortcomings are experienced.  The only downside is the 20 - 24 Lbs. of gear.  Now, it's not only the issue with DACs and amps that may not live up to one's expectations.  I can also be the main source, too.  While I've locked in on and believe that the iPod Video / 5 / Classic is one of the best bargain players out there, it still suffers from short-comings.  One can't really by-pass the DAC that's in the unit, but they can bypass the built-in amp via the use of a LOD cable.  Ideally, I'd love to pass the DAC, if possible, to see what truly the player is made of.  Then again, the Wolfson DACs that were used are not that bad.
 
In the end, I think most "portable" gear is best left for driving smaller headphones or in ear monitors.  For the HifiMAN headphones, the full sized integrated amps are my power of preference.

 

[kixxit]

I've got a few more songs i want to listen to tonight, and then I'll give up my opinion regarding my experience.  Thanks!  I really appreciate your input!

 

[palmfish]

I've got a few more songs i want to listen to tonight, and then I'll give up my opinion regarding my experience.  Thanks!  I really appreciate your input!

I'm very interested in hearing about what you think of the HE-500 and D7000. I own D7000's and love them, but think the HE-500 may be what I'm ultimately looking for. Are you planning on posting a comparison?

 

[kixxit]

This is my intention, and I've done the prerequisite listening.  The problem I'm having is articulating myself in a manner that doesn't seem trite or overbearing.  In the end it will probably be both, but since you're asking, I'll finish up and post my impressions today.

 

[palmfish]

What a coincidence, my favorite kind of reviews are trite and overbearing!
 
Looking forward to it... 

 

[kixxit]

...here we go.....
 
[size=medium]GEAR[/size]
 
[size=medium]Burson Audio D160/DAC[/size]
[size=medium]Schiit Lyr[/size]
[size=medium]HiFiMan HE-500[/size]
[size=medium]Denon AH-D7000[/size]
[size=medium]Cables schmables (I’m taking baby steps.  I’ll get to cables when I have confirmed other aspects of the audiophile experience for myself)[/size]
 
[size=medium]This review is completely void of any scientific process and/or validation.[/size]
 
[size=medium]I used the DAC on the Burson for both amps.[/size]
 
[size=medium]If I had to choose the most neutral combination for most types of music regardless of genre, I would choose the Burson/D7000.  This is due to the D7000 committing no sins of omission.  They won’t do one thing spectacularly and then do something else in a subpar manner.  When I pay this much money for cans (HE-500), I expect them do everything well as opposed to only one thing incredibly well.  I enjoy a lot of music that is driven by a deep  bass-line.  During my review, I tried to stay away from dubstep and drum&bass in order to stave off any questions of poor recording quality.  Question the Cowboy Junkies and Los Lobos if you must, but I think they create and produce great music.[/size]
 
[size=medium]In describing the nature of both headphones, I would say that the D7000 is eager to please and does so to the best of its ability, warts and all.  The HE-500 seems to think that the midrange is where it’s at and if you (the listener) have impeccably good taste you’d know better and wouldn’t bother wasting time or audiophile “cred” with anything else. [/size]
 
[size=medium]I have found that with certain music, the HE-500 is stellar, especially when amped by the Lyr.  The Burson makes them sound a bit sterile.  I have turned the volume knob of both amps almost all the way up and found almost no distortion.  They seem to get better with volume.  At lower volumes, they seem a bit veiled, but I think this is because there is a slight roll-off in the treble that cuts things off before they can get too interesting.  They will always sparkle when required, but rarely will they “shine”.  I think it’s the evenness between the mids and the highs that gets peoples' attention.  I could go on and on about the midrange, but I think it’s pretty well covered elsewhere.  My quarrel with the HE-500 is the bass.[/size]
 
[size=medium]What is it about the bass on the HE-500 that disappoints?  The bass is too soft.  It lacks the definition I thought I could take for granted at this price point.  Every time I expected to hear the “edge” on the bass in certain songs, it simply wasn’t there when I know it should have been.  If the truth be told, as much as I love and listen to headphones I do have a preference for loudspeakers and I’ve heard all of the tracks I’ve used for this review dozens if not hundreds of times over the years.  I really think I have a good idea of what they should sound like after hearing them on several sound systems.  One track that exemplifies this deficiency in the bass is Just Want to See by the Cowboy Junkies.  Strategically placed behind that gorgeous electric bass line are sections of an upright bass with bow.  The HE-500’s simply lose it.  Where there should be bite, the HE-500 seem to overlook it for the sake of a smoother midrange.  [/size]
 
[size=medium]Do the D7000 do bass better?  Yeah but….Well….In most cases, yes – but you pay a price.  I don’t consider the D7000 to be so much warm sounding as having bass that lapses too far into the midrange.  The bass is punchier and shows up when its called for.  It’s like listening to a subwoofer with the low pass filter set a tad too high.  If I didn’t have the HE-500 to compare to, the over-warm bass on the D7000 wouldn’t have become half as bothersome.  Even so, I would rather live with this deficiency and have a little bit of everything than shoot for greatness in only one area.  Please remember – in comparison to the HE-500, the D7000 midrange is just good.  The treble is sharper and can become sibilant in some recordings, but due to listening to my Beyerdynamic DT770, I probably tend to expect a sharper treble with anything else.  The D7000 is by no means an Ultrasone or Grado.  I just enjoy the balance and slightly heavier bass with a lot of the music I listen to. [/size]
 
[size=medium]If you don’t like the bass on the D7000, the Lyr will not improve it. On Sex Mob/Exotica, the track Luvin Blume was fun and interesting with the Lyr/D7000 combo because it pulled things out of the music I didn’t  notice with the Burson (due to excessive mid-bass bloat?), but the Burson was much cleaner.  Moving on to the track 7 Bars the Lyr seemed to flip the script; because there was less mid-bass in the mix to interfere, the midrange was allowed to shine with much more finesse with the D7000. [/size]
 
[size=medium]Generally speaking, the amps tended to have a greater impact on the improvement of the sound with the HE-500 than the D7000.  On many tracks, the Lyr degraded the sound of the D7000 by making it overly warm in the mid-bass.  In comparing the amps, I consider the Burson to be cleaner and leaner with a bit more air and “shine”.  I find the Lyr to be warmer with more “juice”.  It punches everything up a notch with the HE-500 – especially the midrange.  It also seems to provide what is either grain or texture to the background.  I’m not sure how else to describe it.  It might have something to do with the noise floor?  The Burson has a much blacker background than the Lyr.[/size]
 
[size=medium]I am wondering - is there is a sub 1k amp that will bring better definition to the HE-500 bottom end?  If there is, then the HE-500 would probably win this race hands down.[/size]
 
[size=medium]When reading other reviews I sometimes find it difficult to connect with the reviewer because I have no knowledge of the music selection.  It’s not that I can’t find something to like about death metal or Tom Waits – it’s just that I know I will be more likely to find something enjoyable in another genre.  As such, certain aspects of these reviews fall short for me.  I am not a death metal fan, and I’m not big on classical (yet).  Even so, I have tried to find a balance between artists I love, artists I feel are well produced, and artists other people might actually listen to and like.  I considered doing a review using nothing but Radiohead, figuring everyone would at least know who I was talking about, but decided that I could do that after posting this review if there was enough interest. [/size]
 
[size=medium]Unless otherwise noted, the preferred/better/more neutral combination is Burson/D7000.  On some songs, certain combinations came as a pleasant surprise.  As I’ve stated before, when the HE-500 wins, it wins big.  They really do sound awesome with the right music, and the right amp.  [/size]
 
[size=medium][size=medium]By the time I finished, I was beginning to wonder if wasn’t my ears doing the flip-flopping as opposed to my gear.[/size][/size]
 
[size=medium]In alphabetical order:[/size]
 
[size=medium]Cassandra Wilson/New Moon Daughter (1995) – Strange Fruit [/size]
[size=medium]Cassandra Wilson/Thunderbird (2006) – Poet [/size]
[size=medium]Cowboy Junkies/Lay it Down (1996) – Common Disaster/Just Want to See[/size]
[size=medium]Easy Star All-Stars/Radiodread (2006) – Climbing up the Walls[/size]
[size=medium]Erykah Badu/New Amerikah, Pt. 1 – 4^{[size=small]th[/size]} World War (2008) – Twinkle[/size]
[size=medium]Failure/Fantastic Planet (1996) - Heliotropic *Lyr/HE-500  [/size]
[size=medium]Family Stand/Moon in Scorpio (1991) – Winter in my Heart *Lyr/D7000[/size]
[size=medium]Fiona Apple/Tidal (1996) – Sleep to Dream[/size]
[size=medium]Foster the People/Torches (2011) - Pumped up Kicks[/size]
[size=medium]Four Tet/There is Love in You (2010) – Love Cry [/size]
[size=medium]Gnarles Barkley/The Odd Couple (2008) – Charity *Lyr/D7000[/size]
[size=medium]Hable Con Ella (Talk to Her) (Soundtrack) 2002 *Lyr/HE-500[/size]
[size=medium]Latin Playboys/Dose (1999) – Cuca’s Blues/Lemon ‘N Ice[/size]
[size=medium]Los Lobos/This Time (1999) – Turn Around [/size]
[size=medium]Los Lobos/Good Morning Aztlan (2002) – Round and Round[/size]
[size=medium]PJ Harvey/Is This Desire? (1998) – Catherine *Lyr/D7000[/size]
[size=medium]Rachelle Ferrell/Individuality (Can I Be Me?) 2000 – Will You Remember Me? [/size]
[size=medium]Sex Mob/Sexotica (2006) – 7 Bars/Luvin Blume[/size]
[size=medium]Suba/Sao Paulo Confessions (2000) – Segredo/Tantos Desejos *Lyr/HE-500[/size]
[size=medium]TV on the Radio/Dear Science (2008) – Love Dog *Burson/HE-500[/size]
[size=medium]                        – Golden Age/Crying/Halfway Home *Lyr/D7000[/size]
[size=medium]UNKLE/Where did the Night Fall – The Runaway[/size]
[size=medium]Underworld vs the Misterons/Athens (2009) *Burson/HE-500[/size]
[size=medium]The XX/XX (2009) – Shelter *Lyr/D7000[/size]
[size=medium]Zero 7/When it Falls (2004) – Summersault/Passing By *Burson/HE-500 L U S H ! ! ! [/size]
[size=medium]Zero 7/Simple Things (2001) – Spinning/Destiny *Lyr/HE-500[/size]
 
 

 

[palmfish]

Great review!

I love my D7000's but I agree the bass bleeds into the mids and muddies the water sometimes - it's my one complaint I have with the Denon's that I was hoping you would mention. I'm glad you did because not all reviews do.

My ideal headphone would have the same basic response of the D7000 but with slightly tighter, leaner bass. My research had me thinking that the HE-500 might be that headphone, but your review has given me a better perspective on the HE-500.

I hope to have an opportunity to audition the HE-500 at our next head-fi meet in August. I will not purchase them until until I have a chance to listen to them.

Thanks for posing your observations, I really appreciate it.

 

[brokenthumb]

I also found the bass on the HE-500 wasn't as big an improvement I was hoping for coming from a HD650 and D2000.  No doubt it was the best bass I've yet to hear in a headphone but I wanted a bit more slam and presence.  I also could do without the peak in the treble on certain songs.  Still, the HE-500 is an amazing headphone, the best I've heard, and I've been missing it this past week while waiting for a refund.  I ended up sending them back and will buying a LCD-2 next week, maybe that will take care of my bass and treble preference.
 
If anyone wants a perfect condition HE-500 for $599, I think mine is the one listed on Headroom as B-stock right now.  I never had any problem with the cable or headphone build on that pair.

 

[hekeli]

Quote:

I ended up sending them back and will buying a LCD-2 next week, maybe that will take care of my bass and treble preference.

 
Not to burst your bubble, but imho LCD-2 doesn't have any more bass slam than HE-500. The hype is all about quality and extension etc. Nothing a small EQ boost won't fix. 

 

[brokenthumb]

Quote:

 
Not to burst your bubble, but imho LCD-2 doesn't have any more bass slam than HE-500. The hype is all about quality and extension etc. Nothing a small EQ boost won't fix. 

 
Hmm, I wonder if I should be looking at the HE-400 then?
 
Well if they don't sound any better to me, I will be sending the LCD-2 back and purchasing the HE-500 again.  Something kept eating away at me and I was never going to be satisfied until I heard them both.  This way I'll know I made the right choice and won't always wonder if I would have liked the LCD-2 better.  It would have been easier to purchase both at the same time and keep the one I liked but I didn't have the extra cash on hand to do it that way.