[WB2016]

I would be curious how the Gustard X20 pairs with tube amps though. I prefer R2R but am curious how the experience with tubes on the Gustard turned out.

Cheers
WB

 

[ginetto61]

 

   
Hi and thanks for the information.
You mean that soundwise the Vega is clearly on another level ?
I wonder if anyone has had the chance to compare any of the three.
kind regards,  gino

 
I couldn't tell you, it is what I would call a bit more "refined" than the Gumby Gungrirmultibit, which is supposed to be 95% of a Yggy, which I have not heard.
The Gumby was good for headphones (especially dynamics) but it seemed to not be quite as good with speakers and pairing it with other equipment and the owner exchanged it.
For a headphone setup the gumby seems to be excellent though, but if you go high end some other R2R setups seem to really have something else.
High end, to me means everything has an effect on the systme, from power conditioning, synergy, cables, resonance, isolation.
These are issues that are far less important in HP setups, apart from the power issues.
Real Highend usually has a budget of more than 25K. Usually starting at 2-4K Dac, 2-3K preamp, 4-6K amp, 3-10K for speakers, 3-5K for misc.
There are no upper limits and some aspects can be had for less.
But a complete High End system for less than 20K is really hard. You can have a lot of high end equipment but are far away from a highend setup, IMO.
I am also someone who has worked for high end installers for a while.
In the end you don'T need high end to enjoy music, its more like an addiction
It similar to having a swiss hand made watch to a swatch. I can appreciate both, both will tell you the time, but there is a definite difference as well.
Don't let the high end goal get in the way of enjoying the muisic
The Vega is in a different class of sophistication to the gumby, but also more than twice as expensive!
It does speakers and hp very well, which it should regarding the price
Now if the Gustard X20U comes close to the Vega, that would really be something.
The Vega also does SE and balanced well, which is often not what many HP DACs specialized in Balanced do as well.
I am very curious how the Gustard X20u sounds and especially how the experiences with ordering within the European Union go.
I was just clobbered with customs and that is 23% to >30% and a trip to the customs office, 3-4hrs, which I can do without.
You have to show purchase reciet and payment receit, etc. Just a super hassle and then the idea of having to send it back if there are issues .....
Resolve that and some more feedback and I might be up for it.
It would be a telling sign if the Gustard X20U would be somewhat on par with a Vega, especially in a SE and Ba setup with both speakers and HPs.
This would be for an office setup.
At home I get to burn in clients setups at times so not really going invest in highend in such a ssituation.
Well I have at least till the end of the month to decide.
Cheers
WB

 
Hi and thank you very much indeed for the very valuable advice.
I understand clearly your point.   If i had the ti right finance i would invest more on hi-fi because i love music.
But now i am not in a definitive situation, actually i am always moving for this i am focusing more HPs these days.
Also because i could have issues with the neighbours. They are completely silent.  I hope they are not dead. No smell however.
You say:

Now if the Gustard X20U comes close to the Vega, that would really be something.

this is also my same opinion, being the Vega a very top unit.
Another interesting point would be to understand the quality of the usb input on the Gustard.  Maybe it is good.
I think that in the next days some shoot-out could highlight the differences with other good level units.
Digital however is a strange beast.   Usually high-end units sound very very good indeed.
But sometimes very cheap units sound much better than what they should.
One case is the Squeeze Box Touch.  I have one and its spdif out is really something.
I understand that with the right power supply this little cheap thing is able to output a great digital signal.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,  gino

 

[denti]

I'm really interested in this DAC. I currently have a Micromega MyDAC, which sounds fine, but I'd really like a pronounced step up. Will the Gustard do?
 
Also, I want the capability to do DSD, since I'd ultimately like to get an Oppo 103 with Vanity HD card to output SACD DoP. Has anyone tried this?
 
In the meantime I was going to use an HDMI de-embedder to send PCM at full resolution over optical to the DAC. Has anyone tried using a de-embedder with the Gustard? I know that some DACs an be fussy in this regard.
 
Thanks.

 

[WB2016]

 
Hi and thank you very much indeed for the very valuable advice.
I understand clearly your point.   If i had the ti right finance i would invest more on hi-fi because i love music.
But now i am not in a definitive situation, actually i am always moving for this i am focusing more HPs these days.
Also because i could have issues with the neighbours. They are completely silent.  I hope they are not dead. No smell however.
You say:
this is also my same opinion, being the Vega a very top unit.
Another interesting point would be to understand the quality of the usb input on the Gustard.  Maybe it is good.
I think that in the next days some shoot-out could highlight the differences with other good level units.
Digital however is a strange beast.   Usually high-end units sound very very good indeed.
But sometimes very cheap units sound much better than what they should.
One case is the Squeeze Box Touch.  I have one and its spdif out is really something.
I understand that with the right power supply this little cheap thing is able to output a great digital signal.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,  gino

 


I understand the "desire" to go for a high end setup, but that requires a lot of planning, testing, and adjusting, which if that is why you are in the hobby, go for it. My intention at this point in time is to have a functional setup that allows you to enjoy the music.

I might get into a lot of trouble here, but if you are listening mostly for enjoyment and not for analytics I have heard plenty of setups where SE was on par with similar balanced. The main thing is to capture the energy, magic and emotion of the music and not get lost in running after perfection, unlaess this is your intention and you have the budget for it. Sure balanced will usually give you less grounding issues and a slightly larger soundstage, but it will automatically increase the price considerably. The trick is getting the right setup that you enjoy. The expensive part is usually the upgrading in this game. Especially with rapidly evolving technologies such as dacs I would not personally spend more than 2000 and less than 800-1000 for an office/hp setup. Its like with computers get something good but not top of the line else the depreciation will get you.

I had several total dacs at home for client's installs a while back and those are some of the absolute best, far better than the Vega, IMO, but in the end the benefit in a regular system was not anywhere near as much as in a real high end system. This is often the biggest issue with comparing the potential of a piece of equipment when they are assessed for reviews being run on systems that are quite exceptional, it will often not reflect what the average hifi enthusiast will get out of them. Also there is synergy of equipment and just balancing (tonally) the sytem that is more important than what is "best".

I have recently heard some 500-800 dacs that for the average (or lets say average here but quite above average in general) enthusiast were much better choices than some high end dacs. The big issue with some high end gear is that it is so unforgiving everything except the best recordings show all their flaws and you cannot enjoy the music anymore, which is IMO not productive unless you have enough really high quality music. Vinyl is much better that way, but try having 20,000 LPs in your house or buying them vs. $20 a month for Tidal.

I agree sometimes very inexpensive setups can sound really good. It also has to do with their insensitivity to interference, e.g. electrical. A lot of the lower budget stuff is designed to be far more tolerant to signal noise, fluctuations, resonances and vibrations giving you an excellent sound and saving money for music in the long run. When you go real highend if one little thing is out of place things sound off, instead of enjoying the music and spending money on music As you mentioned with the squeezebox the transport and the power source will often determine how good a thing is and what you find in consumer grade because it is manufactured in much greater quantities will sometimes trump something far pricier.

Nice that head-fi is also devided in normal and high-end

Lets see if there are any further tests.

Cheers
WB

 

[WB2016]

I'm really interested in this DAC. I currently have a Micromega MyDAC, which sounds fine, but I'd really like a pronounced step up. Will the Gustard do?


 


Also, I want the capability to do DSD, since I'd ultimately like to get an Oppo 103 with Vanity HD card to output SACD DoP. Has anyone tried this?


 


In the meantime I was going to use an HDMI de-embedder to send PCM at full resolution over optical to the DAC. Has anyone tried using a de-embedder with the Gustard? I know that some DACs an be fussy in this regard.


 


Thanks.

 


Why get the Oppo 103? The Oppo 105 has really good audio quality and you might not need a seperate dac. http://audiophile-musings.blogspot.de/2013/03/oppo-bdp-105-review.html

Know some people who prefer the dac on the 105 over a lot of other dacs, its pricier, but you get a great SACD, Blueray and DAC in one package. The soundquality also for movies is much improved and its like having a very good CD/SACD and exceptional movie sound, plus you can use it with


http://audiophile-musings.blogspot.de/2013/03/oppo-bdp-105-review.html
"The BDP-103 uses Cirrus Logic CS4382A 8-channel 24-bit 192KHz DACs and the BDP-105 uses the ESS Sabre32 Reference DACs. The difference between these two DACs makes the audio section of the BDP-103 is as different from the BDP-105 as an MP3 player is from a standalone high-quality CD playback system. "

Hope that helps.
WB

 

[denti]

 

  I'm really interested in this DAC. I currently have a Micromega MyDAC, which sounds fine, but I'd really like a pronounced step up. Will the Gustard do?
   
  Also, I want the capability to do DSD, since I'd ultimately like to get an Oppo 103 with Vanity HD card to output SACD DoP. Has anyone tried this?
   
  In the meantime I was going to use an HDMI de-embedder to send PCM at full resolution over optical to the DAC. Has anyone tried using a de-embedder with the Gustard? I know that some DACs an be fussy in this regard.
   
  Thanks.

 


Why get the Oppo 103? The Oppo 105 has really good audio quality and you might not need a seperate dac. http://audiophile-musings.blogspot.de/2013/03/oppo-bdp-105-review.html

Know some people who prefer the dac on the 105 over a lot of other dacs, its pricier, but you get a great SACD, Blueray and DAC in one package. The soundquality also for movies is much improved and its like having a very good CD/SACD and exceptional movie sound, plus you can use it with


http://audiophile-musings.blogspot.de/2013/03/oppo-bdp-105-review.html
"The BDP-103 uses Cirrus Logic CS4382A 8-channel 24-bit 192KHz DACs and the BDP-105 uses the ESS Sabre32 Reference DACs. The difference between these two DACs makes the audio section of the BDP-103 is as different from the BDP-105 as an MP3 player is from a standalone high-quality CD playback system. "

Hope that helps.
WB

My understanding was that the 105 is in fact NOT all that great as a DAC. At least that's what I've heard from numerous people on the Hoffman forums, for example.

 

[WB2016]

After doing much reading a little update for those reading only the last couple of posts:
for those of you in the EU there seems to be a dealer for Gustard in the UK. IT took me some time to read through all the post, but for those of you just checking in you can get the Gustard X20 from http://www.kidultdiagnostic.com or probably better from amazon.co.uk under his acount. Probably best to e-mail before purchase to be sure. This would mean no import and sales tax, so savings of around 30% in most EU countries from importing directly from China!!! and very competitive price.

Also a little bit unclear if it is the X20 or the X20u kidadult sells. Anyone know???

So far on the positive sides of the Gustard X20 for my purposes going into tube is that it does have a higher output volume and a remote!!!
The remote is really a big plus with a 3 or 4.5m cable when I am on the couch "thinking" and "planing" at work Or if there is noone there turning down the monitors if I use them, a big plus for a convenience SE office setup.

From the characteristics this is the most likely candidate of the Sabre Dacs for my office setup, now I will have to see if with the Gustard X20u some isolation, minor reversible mods and the tube dac with the right tube combo, I can get rid of the trebble issues that some sabres can have or if I need to go R2R. If the Gustard does compare to the Vega, the trebble issues should not be any real issue and if it is similar to the Yggy a competent R2R that would be something.

Sabre dynamics, details and soundstage with most of the naturalness of of R2R, if indeed so this could work nicely.

Unfortunately there has only been one user that has had the Vega and Iggy, some other direct dac comparisons would be great and some more info on SE and balanced would be a plus, but it does not seem to have the huge negatives in SE some other balanced dacs have being much less good in SE.

Also nice that you have the ability to upgrade various things, from simple non invasive which will maintain warranty to quite extreme.

The big negative seems to be the power switch/dial and as with any sensitive electronic equipment proper phase and a clean and stable power supply both usb and more importantly power. A decent power cable as it seems will also make a difference.

I would like to hear how the usb compares to Amanero.

For the savings I would get a decent small power conditioner and good cables, which will benefit the whole setup.

Cheers WB

 

[chrispiyux]

After doing much reading a little update for those reading only the last couple of posts:
for those of you in the EU there seems to be a dealer for Gustard in the UK. IT took me some time to read through all the post, but for those of you just checking in you can get the Gustard X20 from http://www.kidultdiagnostic.com or probably better from amazon.co.uk under his acount. Probably best to e-mail before purchase to be sure. This would mean no import and sales tax, so savings of around 30% in most EU countries from importing directly from China!!! and very competitive price.
 

Hi,
i'm a french user of the Gustard and i ordered mine from Kidult on Amazon.it (it could have been amazon.co.uk but i chose IT).
The price displayed is effectively the price you finally pay, because Kidult imports Gustard from China to UK (they pay the duties) and then send to Europe locations.
 

Also a little bit unclear if it is the X20 or the X20u kidadult sells. Anyone know???

For 799€ (£579 on .co.uk), you have the X20u version with usb input.
 
I have to say, Kidult has always answered my question when i had one and they are often reactive (answer in less than 24h).
 
 
For me if you have to buy from Europe, go with Kidult on Amazon, you also benefit from the "Amazon buyer's protection".
 
Hope this helps.
Chris

 

[WB2016]

Hi,
i'm a french user of the Gustard and i ordered mine from Kidult on Amazon.it (it could have been amazon.co.uk but i chose IT).
The price displayed is effectively the price you finally pay, because Kidult imports Gustard from China to UK (they pay the duties) and then send to Europe locations.
 
For 799€ (£579 on .co.uk), you have the X20u version with usb input.
 
I have to say, Kidult has always answered my question when i had one and they are often reactive (answer in less than 24h).
 
 
For me if you have to buy from Europe, go with Kidult on Amazon, you also benefit from the "Amazon buyer's protection".
 
Hope this helps.
Chris

 


Thought so thanks Chris

 

[WB2016]

My understanding was that the 105 is in fact NOT all that great as a DAC. At least that's what I've heard from numerous people on the Hoffman forums, for example.

 


Well no, its not a superb DAC but quite good. I know a few people that really like it. The main thing to consider if you want one unit with a better build blueray/SACD or two units with a better DAC. I though the difference was just 500 not 700 dollars, so its not quite that easy decision as I thought.

The differences as explained in http://www.head-fi.org/t/655206/oppo-bdp-103-vs-105 :

"The Oppo 105 has HDMI, coaxial, optical, and USB inputs. The USB inputs are of two types: one for connecting directly to a computer and feeding signals to an asynchronous USB DAC, and one for reading files off of an external hard drive/flash drive.
The Oppo 103 only has HDMI and USB inputs. The USB input is only used for reading files off of an external hard drive/flash drive.
The Oppo 105 has superior SABRE DACs (ES9018) compared to the Cirrus Logic DACs used in the Oppo 103.
The Oppo 105 has a headphone amp built in, the 103 does not.
The Oppo 105 has a set of dedicated stereo outputs (balanced XLR or unbalanced RCA) with a dedicated SABRE DAC chip attached to them, and then another SABRE DAC chip for the unbalanced 7.1 analog outs. The Oppo 103 does not have a dedicated stereo output nor balanced outputs, and uses the same Cirrus Logic DAC for all 7.1 analog outs.
Both have identical "disc reading" capabilities in terms of SACD/DVD/DVD-Audio and both have identical capabilities when it comes to reading files off of a USB flash drive. Both have identical capabilities when it comes to reading files off of a DLNA media server streamed over your home network.
Overall, the players have similar capabilities when it comes to playing back media, the primary difference in your application would be the addition of digital inputs (coaxial/optical/USB DAC) on the 105 along with better DAC chips and build quality. If you had a system where all you really needed was an HDMI connection to a receiver then the 103 is usually recommended. The 105 is like a "mini receiver" in that it has more input flexibility along with the headphone output."

You have to know how much you want to spend. A 105 would be an upgrade from a mydac for sure, but if you pair a gustard with a 103 that could likely be better for 2 channel stereo. The 105 also has a seperate dac for 7.1 outs. The danger is that there will not be enough synergy and having an extra box, but the disadvantage is that you might get the most out of the DACs that are out there now. The DAC is only as good as it matches/complements your system

Probably going to need to order three things and listen to them and use them side by side to really know what you prefer and pairs best with your system and use preferences.

Again many are floored by the 105 and it has a good rep in the AV community and many are satisfied. Also depends on how much SACD you have, which can be finicky (to say the least) with external DACs.

If the 105 were cheaper it would be easier to decide. The question really is will the difference in the external DAC make up for the difference, I don't know the differences in DACs are not like the differences in speakers or headphones, they are usually less pronounced and other things such as room treatment, synergy & system matching, speaker placement, model of headphones/speakers, etc. will likely make more of a difference. Those are the times having a creditcard with decent limit is good to order all three at once. Sorry only you can decide.

Man I got to go spent way to much time on head-fi today due to bad weather.

Hope it helps.
WB

 

[denti]

Nah, the 105 isn't worth the investment. For the same price I can get a 103 with Vanity HD card, which would allow me to try multiple DSD capable DACs. And since the Oppo doesn't do gapless over DNLA, it's not worth it for me. Have a lot of SACDs, and really want to have a superior DAC. Gustard is the one.
 
But does it work with HDMI de-embedders? That will have to hold me over until I can get the Oppo 103/Vanity combo.

 

[WB2016]

Nah, the 105 isn't worth the investment. For the same price I can get a 103 with Vanity HD card, which would allow me to try multiple DSD capable DACs. And since the Oppo doesn't do gapless over DNLA, it's not worth it for me. Have a lot of SACDs, and really want to have a superior DAC. Gustard is the one.


 


But does it work with HDMI de-embedders? That will have to hold me over until I can get the Oppo 103/Vanity combo.

 


No idea

 

[ginetto61]

 

   
Hi and thank you very much indeed for the very valuable advice.
I understand clearly your point.   If i had the ti right finance i would invest more on hi-fi because i love music.
But now i am not in a definitive situation, actually i am always moving for this i am focusing more HPs these days.
Also because i could have issues with the neighbours. They are completely silent.  I hope they are not dead. No smell however.
You say:
this is also my same opinion, being the Vega a very top unit.
Another interesting point would be to understand the quality of the usb input on the Gustard.  Maybe it is good.
I think that in the next days some shoot-out could highlight the differences with other good level units.
Digital however is a strange beast.   Usually high-end units sound very very good indeed.
But sometimes very cheap units sound much better than what they should.
One case is the Squeeze Box Touch.  I have one and its spdif out is really something.
I understand that with the right power supply this little cheap thing is able to output a great digital signal.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,  gino

 


I understand the "desire" to go for a high end setup, but that requires a lot of planning, testing, and adjusting, which if that is why you are in the hobby, go for it. My intention at this point in time is to have a functional setup that allows you to enjoy the music.

I might get into a lot of trouble here, but if you are listening mostly for enjoyment and not for analytics I have heard plenty of setups where SE was on par with similar balanced. The main thing is to capture the energy, magic and emotion of the music and not get lost in running after perfection, unlaess this is your intention and you have the budget for it. Sure balanced will usually give you less grounding issues and a slightly larger soundstage, but it will automatically increase the price considerably. The trick is getting the right setup that you enjoy. The expensive part is usually the upgrading in this game. Especially with rapidly evolving technologies such as dacs I would not personally spend more than 2000 and less than 800-1000 for an office/hp setup. Its like with computers get something good but not top of the line else the depreciation will get you.

I had several total dacs at home for client's installs a while back and those are some of the absolute best, far better than the Vega, IMO, but in the end the benefit in a regular system was not anywhere near as much as in a real high end system. This is often the biggest issue with comparing the potential of a piece of equipment when they are assessed for reviews being run on systems that are quite exceptional, it will often not reflect what the average hifi enthusiast will get out of them. Also there is synergy of equipment and just balancing (tonally) the sytem that is more important than what is "best".

I have recently heard some 500-800 dacs that for the average (or lets say average here but quite above average in general) enthusiast were much better choices than some high end dacs. The big issue with some high end gear is that it is so unforgiving everything except the best recordings show all their flaws and you cannot enjoy the music anymore, which is IMO not productive unless you have enough really high quality music. Vinyl is much better that way, but try having 20,000 LPs in your house or buying them vs. $20 a month for Tidal.

I agree sometimes very inexpensive setups can sound really good. It also has to do with their insensitivity to interference, e.g. electrical. A lot of the lower budget stuff is designed to be far more tolerant to signal noise, fluctuations, resonances and vibrations giving you an excellent sound and saving money for music in the long run. When you go real highend if one little thing is out of place things sound off, instead of enjoying the music and spending money on music As you mentioned with the squeezebox the transport and the power source will often determine how good a thing is and what you find in consumer grade because it is manufactured in much greater quantities will sometimes trump something far pricier.

Nice that head-fi is also devided in normal and high-end

Lets see if there are any further tests.

Cheers
WB

 
Hi ! thanks a lot for your valuable advice.
I think i have got the message.   I will focus more on sound and my favourite songs.
more precisely the intention is to group a collection of pieces that i like and listen if i can enjoy them.
Usually this is not a big problem with analog.  I remember nice music coming from not so high quality tapes.
Digital done right is not the norm unfortunately.  And when digital is wrong is very wrong.  It is not music.
I agree with you that often the devil is in the details.  For instance a bad power supply can destroy the sound.
Actually i am now very involved in study power supply.  The impact on sound could be like make or break.
Extremely low noise in particular is key. 
If there are no moving part like a disk or a fan spinning or a transformer vibrating, mechanical vibration are less of an issue.
I am only on digital and i do not use hard disks, i try to isolate transformers and i do not use pc power downstream the personal computer.
And i truly think i am on something.  I am trying differen power supply solution at the moment and isolation devices.
Last one being this one here ...
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-noise-USB-Isolator-short-circuit-protection-ADUM4160-Hifi-JTAG-isolation-/111942885146?hash=item1a1050df1a:g:3AUAAOSwPgxVL63g
 

 
 
 
Not so with analog.  After many years I am still in the learning phase.
But i think i have starting to understand something.
On paper digital has better specs than analog and i truly believe that at least can sound practically on par and satisfactory.
I say that it is tricky because digital that cannot be right sounds good ... and viceversa.
I remember an old Grunding cd player sounding very musical indeed even if they told me that the actual resolution was like 14 bit ?
I am still in the learning phase.
Thanks a lot again for the very useful advice.
gino 

 

[WB2016]

 
Hi ! thanks a lot for your valuable advice.
I think i have got the message.   I will focus more on sound and my favourite songs.
more precisely the intention is to group a collection of pieces that i like and listen if i can enjoy them.
Usually this is not a big problem with analog.  I remember nice music coming from not so high quality tapes.
Digital done right is not the norm unfortunately.  And when digital is wrong is very wrong.  It is not music.
I agree with you that often the devil is in the details.  For instance a bad power supply can destroy the sound.
Actually i am now very involved in study power supply.  The impact on sound could be like make or break.
Extremely low noise in particular is key. 
If there are no moving part like a disk or a fan spinning or a transformer vibrating, mechanical vibration are less of an issue.
I am only on digital and i do not use hard disks, i try to isolate transformers and i do not use pc power downstream the personal computer.
And i truly think i am on something.  I am trying differen power supply solution at the moment and isolation devices.
Last one being this one here ...
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-noise-USB-Isolator-short-circuit-protection-ADUM4160-Hifi-JTAG-isolation-/111942885146?hash=item1a1050df1a:g:3AUAAOSwPgxVL63g
 

 
 
 
Not so with analog.  After many years I am still in the learning phase.
But i think i have starting to understand something.
On paper digital has better specs than analog and i truly believe that at least can sound practically on par and satisfactory.
I say that it is tricky because digital that cannot be right sounds good ... and viceversa.
I remember an old Grunding cd player sounding very musical indeed even if they told me that the actual resolution was like 14 bit ?
I am still in the learning phase.
Thanks a lot again for the very useful advice.
gino 

 


Glad to help, I will not go into the digital vs. analog. In the end it comes down to how you enjoy music and most people loose sight of that goal, at least.

Analog is more "fun" because it really follows logic far less and is intuitive, which is scary for those who need measurements.
Just adding the sum of the "best" pieces will often not lead to the best system. But in analog the rule unfortunately holds that because of physical necessities especially while aproaching high end (not necessary IMO) you will be forced to spend big, not to mention the music. Analog is where used is really a deal though.

Digital is now coming of age and allows you to scratch highend, especially with HP for a fraction. The trick in my opinion is to maintain the magic in digital. A good approach is adding some good tubes as amp/preamp, or going R2R. That for me is the interesting development in digital that you have all the advantages plus you can start getting the feeling of analog if you just want to enjoy the music. Nothing will compare to a master tape highend analog setup, but digital will also help you learn while doing without going broke. Then when the great job comes along you can still analog your system. Although I love the fact that afordable analog, especially turntables are now coming back strong.


Or just playing around.

You think power is an issue with digital (HP), nothing compared to conditioning a bigger speaker setup. There you can spend far more in conditioning than on a whole great digital hp setup.

Cheers
WB

 

[ginetto61]

Originally Posted by WB2016
   
Glad to help, I will not go into the digital vs. analog.
In the end it comes down to how you enjoy music and most people loose sight of that goal, at least.
Analog is more "fun" because it really follows logic far less and is intuitive, which is scary for those who need measurements.
Just adding the sum of the "best" pieces will often not lead to the best system.
But in analog the rule unfortunately holds that because of physical necessities especially while aproaching high end (not necessary IMO) you will be forced to spend big, not to mention the music.
Analog is where used is really a deal though.  

 
Hi again,
i see analog much more demanding approach.  Even only set-up correctly a turntable is a challenge. 
Also almost all my collection is on cds and the streaming services are likely to provide huge catalogs with nice sound quality.  
And on the basis of what you say and with a limited budget i have still more hope with digital.  For instance i liked very much the SBT but i would like to use the pc anyway.
And this complicates a little the life. 
 

Digital is now coming of age and allows you to scratch highend, especially with HP for a fraction. The trick in my opinion is to maintain the magic in digital.
A good approach is adding some good tubes as amp/preamp, or going R2R.
That for me is the interesting development in digital that you have all the advantages plus you can start getting the feeling of analog if you just want to enjoy the music.
Nothing will compare to a master tape highend analog setup, but digital will also help you learn while doing without going broke. 

I see.  However i hate tapes ... as a medium i mean.   I just cannot stand them.
When the process is too demanding i loose interest.  Also because i am sure that digital can be at least good when done right.
For this i am trying to learn some basics in the forum.  Without instruments is not easy however. 
But i think i am understanding something. It is not easy to put pieces of information together but with patience ... 

Then when the great job comes along you can still analog your system.
Although I love the fact that afordable analog, especially turntables are now coming back strong.   Or just playing around.
You think power is an issue with digital (HP), nothing compared to conditioning a bigger speaker setup.
There you can spend far more in conditioning than on a whole great digital hp setup.
Cheers
WB

This is a problem for the future.  For now the goal is to have a decent sound in the HPs.
I have already a line preamp and amp stored away.  I cannot listen decently to speakers in my present situation.
But HPs can be also fun.   Thank you very much again for the very valuable advice
Kind regards,  gino