[supersleuth]

Quote:

You just described the GS1000... couldn't agree more.
 

Haven't heard them but I would guess they do that to an even greater extent because of the much deeper pads. But "classic" Grados with the "L-cushion" bowls, if worn the right way, don't have to be devoid of soundstage, though it will never be huge.
 

 

[purrin]

Yes GS1000 have the soundstage, but they sound nothing like Grados - something the OP was looking for. The GS1000 is the odd one out of the entire Grado line. The DT990 actually sort of sounds like Grado in the highest midrange and treble.

 

[MarkJnK]

Quote:

Yes GS1000 have the soundstage, but they sound nothing like Grados - something the OP was looking for. The GS1000 is the odd one out of the entire Grado line. The DT990 actually sort of sounds like Grado in the highest midrange and treble.

I disagree with this a little.  I had the 325i at the same time I had the GS1000, and if I swapped the bowls back and forth, you'd be surprised how close the 325i and the GS1000 sound when using the same bowls.  Most of the difference is in the bowls with only a small improvement in the drivers and cups IMHO, but enough to warrant me keeping the GS1000.  Put flats on the GS1000 and there is no doubt it is part of the Grado family.  The 990/600 has better bass than the GS1000, the GS1000 gets a bit boomy and "one note" when pushed deep, but the 990/600 maintains definition deeper into the range.

 

[xformulax]

MS1i with G-cush pads.
 
Quote:

Just like the topic reads. I'm looking for something that retains the general toe-tapping sound of the grado sound, while also managing to have much more impact in the sub-bass (no mid bass bleed or needless warmth) and better soundstage. I can make bass better to a pretty good degree on my sr60s with an EQ, but I can't do much about the soundstage.
 
So I'm basically wondering what my options are. For those of you with lots of experience trying different headphones, any advice would be wonderful.
 
Thanks!

 

[Mochan]

DT990 sounds like an SR225?! I can't imagine that being the case. Mind I have not heard the DT990, but the SR225 sounds so different from what I've heard the DT990 sounds like. For starters I found the SR225 is as bright as the sun and very lacking in bass all around.  I guess different equipment makes different gear sound different.
 
People keep saying how the AD700 and K701 is bass light but plugged into a Marantz 1090 this just isn't the case.
 
Quote:

I went from a Grado Sr-80 to the beyer Dt990 (2010) and I cannot listen to the grados anymore. As far as im concerned, you shouldnt rule out the headphone based on a graph you found online. you never know how its going to sound with your particular setup.
 
 
The Dt990 with my millet tube amp rocks. I found myself tapping my toes the other day so i think it has that grado energy with a bigger soundstage. I kept hearing things about how there is too much bass, blah blah blah. Once I got them and tried them I loved them.
 
Before I had the dt990 i thought the grados were just excellent especially for the types of music I liked. So i am definately a fan of the grado house sound. I dont want to come off as a grado hater here, i love them. In fact I have an SR 225 as well and I feel like the beyers sound is nearly the same as the 225 except there is just more of it.
 
For me, I suspect the tubes are a good compliment for the beyer sound since it accentuates the mids a little through my amp.

All im saying is, maybe you should give the dt990 a chance instead of writing it off based off a computer chart. maybe they will sound wonderful to your ears too.
 
Whatever you do, just dive in and enjoy the music. I banged my head against the wall for 3 weeks straight tryign to decide which headphone to get.

 

[apatN]

MS1000 or MS-Ultimate if want to harass your wallet.

 

[Sophonax]

A pair of headphones from Lawton Audio should do the trick; the LA2000 Lites are probably the best option since they are the cheapest model in which you get the custom wood earcups.  Otherwise the LA7000s are in the same kind of stratospheric price range as the Grado PS1000s.
 
I have a pair of LA2000 Lites with the silky oak wood earcups, and the way I keep describing them is that they sound like a cross between stock Denons and a pair of Grados, with tighter, more articulate bass than either.  Depending on the type of wood that you pick, they can have all the sub-bass power of the stock Denons, except the markl mods serve to tighten it up significantly.  Also, the mids seem to come forward when compared the stock Denons, making them sound somewhat similar to Grados.  They have that same particular sound quality that makes high-distortion electric guitar sound so good.
 
And in terms of soundstage, though they are closed headphones, I always thought the soundstage was better on Denons than on Grados (at least the Grado models below the GS1000).  It won't match a good pair of open headphones like Beyers, Senns, or AKGs, but it is very good for closed headphones and will provide a noticeable improvement over most Grados.
 
I'm actually looking to sell these headphones at the moment...feel free to take a look if you're interested.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496020/ic-lawton-audio-la2000-lites

 

[fateicon]

I tried RS-1, HF-2, PS1000, PS-1, and GS1000 in various setups at Can Jam. I found that the GS1000 and PS1000 are not appropriate for stuff like Guns N Roses, Dokken, Fiona, Icon, Alien, Madonna, Annica, and Abba-Visitors. These were all 1st pressings, cds with dynamic range instead of heavily-compressed remasters. I found that the sound was too distant, thin, and small-sounding. Perhaps a bit bloated on the PS1000 as well, with the hard rock(not enough impact, but lots of bass).
 
For some reason Abba Voulez Vouz was awesome on the PS1000 with that $1050 Woo Audio tube amp with the power supply. I didn't like any of the other albums using that headphone. I wish I had brought my film scores with me, but, I can test the 1000 headphones at my local store again if I need to.
 
Plugging my RS-1 and HF2 into various setups, I found a lot of em to be way too laid back compared to my Arcam 73+Darkvoice 332 home setup. I did listen to a lot of other headphones with the vendor cds and I can say that their setups worked well for those types of music. I think I may have preferred the AKG 701 and 702 along with the T1 on this Manilow type cd Woo Audio had out. Those AKG and Beyer headphones to me had the closest experience to the grado sound, albeit more distant, thin, and not as upfront. 
 
I definitely wouldn't pay big bucks for the GS1000 or PS1000 at this point as I feel they are far inferior to the RS-1, PS-1, and HF-2 for rock music. Nothing I heard at Can Jam can touch those 3 for rock in my view. Grados are just so much more upfront and aggressive than any other brand I've heard.
 
I tried every headphone I could get my hands on except the JH stuff. Just ran out of time to get to them. Denons are very opposite of Grado. I put on the D7000 and D2000 and was like "they weren't kidding when they said the mids were sucked out!". I didn't like the Audio Technica stuff. I tried the HD800 with the Arcam 192 and Todd's $1400 tube amp and liked it a lot better than when I tried with at a store with a Rotel 1072 and my darkvoice. If it were $300-$500, I'd maybe buy one. 
 
While I'd like to try the PS-1 with my setup here, I didn't feel like they were night and day compared to the RS-1 and HF-2. For $300-$500, I'd buy them, but not $2000-$2500. 
 
I guess it depends what you listen to and what you want the experience to be. 

 

[purrin]

^ It's true, GS1000/PS1000 are not as aggressive in midrange compared to RS1/HF2; but they are on a whole other level in regards to clarity, detail, and lack of congestion. The PS1000 is actually kind of mellow in a Denon kind of way but with the upper midrange and lower treble somewhere between RS1 and HF2. You still get crunchy guitars, but the tone is very warm. In this regard, I actually don't like the PS1000 from my Melos - I am looking for a good solid state amp here (as with the Denon where I preferred solid state amping)

 

[MarkJnK]

Quote:

 
I definitely wouldn't pay big bucks for the GS1000 or PS1000 at this point as I feel they are far inferior to the RS-1, PS-1, and HF-2 for rock music. Nothing I heard at Can Jam can touch those 3 for rock in my view. Grados are just so much more upfront and aggressive than any other brand I've heard.

You haven't tried the GS1000's with flats... they do rock extremely well with a simple pad swap.  I firmly believe that the difference between the GS/PS1K models and the rest of the line is mostly attributable to the pads, not driver dynamics.

 

[Bilavideo]

 
Quote:

Just like the topic reads. I'm looking for something that retains the general toe-tapping sound of the grado sound, while also managing to have much more impact in the sub-bass (no mid bass bleed or needless warmth) and better soundstage. I can make bass better to a pretty good degree on my sr60s with an EQ, but I can't do much about the soundstage.
 
So I'm basically wondering what my options are. For those of you with lots of experience trying different headphones, any advice would be wonderful.
 
Thanks!

 
Buy a really good amp.  I've owned a number of metal boxes with knobs that somebody wanted to call an amp, but my M^3 with STEPs ($500) has made all my Grados sing.  The amp has a variable bass boost, which I've used on everything from the PS1000 to the SR60.  With the right amount of bass boost, you'd be surprised at how much bass the SR60 has to offer - even with jumbo pads (which kill the bass in the lower-priced Grados).  
 
I'm not sure that any Grado has the lowest bass (there's a drop-off, even for the top Grados) but with a decent amp, you can get plenty of bass between 50 and 80 Hz, below that mid-bass hump that often passes for "great bass."  Grados don't drive as low as some cans - even the HD800s - but they drive so easily that it's just as easy to think you don't need any  amp at all.  This is often where people complain about Grado's peaky shrillness, something they don't say about high-impedance headphones that sound anemic un-amped.
 
If bass is what you want, getting a high-quality amp can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

You haven't tried the GS1000's with flats... they do rock extremely well with a simple pad swap.  I firmly believe that the difference between the GS/PS1K models and the rest of the line is mostly attributable to the pads, not driver dynamics.

I owned the GS1000s.  I didn't like them with jumbos, at least not until I got a decent amp, at which point the presentation was filled with such warmth that the jumbos no longer felt sibilant.  I would often switch them to bowls, which produced a thumpy, punchy, bass that was hard not to like.  It had never occurred to me to try the flats, but I've since used the flats on other headphones and found them to work wonders for creating thumping bass.  I mod mine so that they admit of more HF but I think if more people would listen to the SR325 with flats, they would stop complaining about how "harsh" that can "sounds."
 
Flats are not a Grado product.  They're sold exclusively by Todd the Vinyl Junkie (TTVJ) through his website.  They're the same pads used on the legendary PS1 and HP1000 headphones.
 

 

[MarkJnK]

Quote:

 
Flats are not a Grado product.  They're sold exclusively by Todd the Vinyl Junkie (TTVJ) through his website.  They're the same pads used on the legendary PS1 and HP1000 headphones.
 

My mistake, I mean to say that the GS1000 sounds very "grado-like" with bowls (the standard current pads), vs. the huge soundstage, and booming bass with the jumbos.  I haven't tried TTVJ's flats.
 

 

[majkel]

Sub-bass? The ED8. The D7000 don't come even close. Their bass is somewhat "fake" and actually its estension is no lower than 40Hz. The Ultrasone's are a different story. You truly hear the 20-30Hz air vibration. Even the PS1000 have better lower bass extension than the D7000 when driven from the same quality SS amp.
 
What the OP is looking for is either the Beyerdynamic T1 (soundstage, impact, speed all very good) or the Edition 8 - visceral sub-bass, good soundstage, good speed, timbral and textural accuracy, easy to drive.
 
EDIT: re-read the OP. Let the PS1000 sing first! Find a powerful SS amp or a decent tube working in push-pull mode. These are THE best rock headphones I have ever tried, the ED8 and the GS1000 coming close but I'm a person I'd take the RS2 over the RS1 for rock any day.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Sub-bass? The ED8. The D7000 don't come even close. Their bass is somewhat "fake" and actually its estension is no lower than 40Hz. The Ultrasone's are a different story. You truly hear the 20-30Hz air vibration. Even the PS1000 have better lower bass extension than the D7000 when driven from the same quality SS amp.
 
What the OP is looking for is either the Beyerdynamic T1 (soundstage, impact, speed all very good) or the Edition 8 - visceral sub-bass, good soundstage, good speed, timbral and textural accuracy, easy to drive.
 
EDIT: re-read the OP. Let the PS1000 sing first! Find a powerful SS amp or a decent tube working in push-pull mode. These are THE best rock headphones I have ever tried, the ED8 and the GS1000 coming close but I'm a person I'd take the RS2 over the RS1 for rock any day.

are you sure about the denons?  if i recall correctly they were measured by some to reach lower than 40 hrz. but i agree that their over emphasized mid bass is somewhat masking the low bass.