[Fadamacka]

Quote:

Originally posted by alexerwu Hi All, I've just purchased a pair of Grado RS-1 headphones along with an RA-1 amp last week and have been using them on and off for about 10-15 Hrs. at the time of writing. My initial reactions to the combo is that they provide excellent detail along with a really marvelous mid-range but is rather strident/piercing on the top end (especially apparent when listening to strings/certain vocals). The strange thing is that the top end forwardness is largely ameliorated when listening to SACD's?! My questions are as follows: 1)Is the forwardness a function of break-in time? 2)If not, then is it accurately producing the source material (e.g. CD vs. SACD)? The source used for the Grado setup is the Sony DVP-9000ES SACD/DVD/CD player. Interconnects are TMC (the music company -- Austrailian maker) yellow/white cables Thanks in advance for any insights/opinions.

IMHO, the RS-1's character after break-in is that their lovely forwardness improve, but the brigthness (the fatiguing factor that many people complain about) disappears, but only to a certain point (just after my taste, really).
This happens after 50-60 hours. They only get better and better, really. The bass gets deeper as well.

 

[Hirsch]

The following was posted by Tyll Hertsens, in a thread on the Grado flat pads and the bowl pads:

Quote:

It's our experience that the flat pad puts the transducer too close to the ear causing a resonance at about 3kHz. The "bowl" pad solves this, but at the expense of not having enough bass response. We've found that partially closing off the ability for air to escape from the circumferance of the bowl pad solves the problem. Get some silicon bathtub calk and smear it around the outside edge of the bowl pad that will close off about half of the surface of the circumferance. This will improve the bass significantly. The more you close off, the more bass you get. To temporarily try this, simply run a band of Scotch tape around the outside of the pad, you will hear the bass get stronger but it will be too strong because the tape closes off too much. I'll see if I can get Danny to run the experiment and take measurements. I've been trying to think of some type of tape that allows some air to penetrate but haven't figured anything out yet. I'd rekon there is some kind of breathable medical tape that would work. Maybe some of youz guyz can scare something up and let us know about it.

I use rubber cement rather than tub caulk. I place in four locations around the pad, so there are four "closed" areas on the bowl pad, and four "open" areas.

IME this takes the edge off the RS-1 brightness, and helps fill out the midrange and bass. Stridency is much reduced. Well worth getting a spare set of bowl pads and experimenting. The improvement to the RS-1 is not subtle.

 

[SumB]

Be patient and give them time to break in. I know it can be a frustrating process but your patience will be well rewarded in the form of more releaxed and refined sound.

You may wish to purchase an outboard DAC for your Sony - I'm probably alone here but I find the ES players to be particularly dry and harsh sounding.

 

[Nik]

What I’m remembering about Grados is that really they sound too clear and I never understood why an amp like the RA-1 that is just concept for improve the hi and mid bands. IMO the RS-1 cans sound much better with the old Grado amp. IME the RS-1 never sounded so nice when I had used them with the EAR HP-4 amp.: amazing! The Grado cans need a tube amp, this is a must.
Brian Kurtz of soundmind that dealers the Holmes Powell amps, said that the combo Holmes Powell DCT-2 /RS-1 (a little modified from the amp designer), is the best headphone system in the planet, he knows the Orpheus and the Staxes… I was thinking to buy the Holmes Powell when I had the RS-1, but with the same money I found the last exemplar of Sony MDR R-10 and I’m very happy of this….The first times I listened the R-10 after 7 years of Grados sound, I really learned what music is, I always had a little disturb in the left ear, I don’t know if there was for the uncomfortable design or for the too harsh sound of the cans, the R-10 cured my ears and my heart. I confess you that I had needed one entire week to pass from the Grado to the R-10. Now I can’t understand as I was listening a couple of mounts ago, and its impossible to go back!

 

[Hirsch]

I had the opportunity to hear the RS-1 with both the Holmes-Powell DCT-2 and the EAR HP-4 at the Headroom World of Headphones Tour. I also listened to both amps with the R10. The HP-4 was superior to the DCT-2 using either headphone, IMO. Even after warmup, the Holmes-Powell wasn't able to reach the same level of clarity that the EAR reached. The Holmes-Powell is a very fine amp, and I rated it third at the Tour, with the HP-4 first, and the Headroom Max second (however, the difference between second and third was very small indeed!)

 

[Nik]

Hi Hirsh,

I’m very happy to meat you another time…
I never heard the Holmes Powell, I just used in my replay the Brian’s words… he spoke about a RS-1 modified for the amp (250$ for the tweaked). I’m really never been convinced about the Holmes Powell, I imagine that is one of the best amps, but with 6000K you can to buy a lot of things and a lot of amps…I’m not sure yet, but I think that probably I’ll pay my custom “R-10H” with this amount. (The amp arrived yet because delay of ALPS RK50 pot. from Japan, I wait the amp at the end of august). But the speech was about the RS-1 and not about the amps… Do you admit that, with the EAR, the RS-1 sounds very well? And that the Grados need a tube amplifier? About Headroom I have a problem, the new version of the Max is so different than the old (that I had and I know very well)? Because if really this new version is on the second place (better than the Holmes Powell), its really and totally another thing … I never accepted the old Max. Has the new Max the liquidity of the tube amps? The intimacy of the med, the soundstage and “real sound” of the tube amps? I have some doubt!!!!

 

[Zanth]

Heh, if the Max is only slightly better than the dct-2, then the dct-2 really is a rip-off....since it is nearly 5x the price of the max...

course...the dct-2 looks a hell of a lot nicer to these eyes...

still, my eyes are locked on the HP4.

 

[Vka]

Wow, you think the Max is better than the DCT-2?
Anyhow, my friend who heard the MAX and heard the R-10 thought my DCT-1 was MUCH better than the MAX. The Max sounded dark, sterile and without feeling compared to the DCT-1 who he explains as having a gourgeous midrange, sparkling highs and full bass. In fact, he believes the DCT-1 gives the R-10 too much bass and prefers a more neutral amp instead. Personally, I agree with him seem to like the Orpheus and Grado's tighter bass over R-10s.

Anyhow, I have not heard the MAX, but have heard the Cosmic twice once with DanG and second time with a base station one setup. If the Cosmic is supposedly 95% the MAX, then the DCT-1 blows away the MAX to pieces. Again, to my "ears", I found the Cosmic although good with a portable setup, sounds still dark, lacking air, soundstage. Also, I really do not like the crossfeed as it makes everything rolled off. The high frequency does not seem to help either. The Melos Sha-1 and Cary 300sei in my opinion is better than the Cosmic.

Finally!
In my opinion, I feel the Orpheus in a very good setup is the best headphone system period, beating R-10s, and HP-1000s.
However, why do I still go back to my DCT-1 + HP-1000 setup 90% of the time?.... Hmmm...

As a note, I find the RS-1 and MSP very forward sounding. The Hp-1000 in comparison sounds more natural and less forward sounding.

As a final note, I have heard the Holmes Powell modified RS-1 and its deifnitely different than your modern day RS-1. Yohan use to own the Modified RS-1 with DCT-1 and he think its the best setup beating his Stax Omegas II, MAX, Melos, HD-600/R-10 setup. He let me borrowed it once and it had much tighter bass than a regular RS-1. the midrange was ultra sweet and the highs very sweet as well. If I remember correctly, the setup was very analog as I found the setup back then a bit coloured and prefer the MSP. Of course, I now own a much higher resolution setup with better cables and etc. I wonder how the modified RS-1 setup would fare now in my setup....

 

[Hirsch]

as we wander ever farther afield from the thread topic...

My opinion was based on the Headroom Tour. I well know that the DCT-2 may not have been shown to best advantage there. Still, that's the experience I had with it. Based on what I heard, if offered a choice between the DCT-2 and the Max with money no object, I'd take the Max. OTOH, there's always the possibility of tube rolling the DCT-2...

I don't think the Cosmic is supposed to be 95% of the Max. The Maxed Out Home might be that. I should be able to do a side by side comparison by the end of the week. Max, MOH, ZOTL and SHA-1 in one place. Should be fun... I've asked Headroom if I can keep both amps here until the meet on the 24th. Add in RKV, possible Wheatfield HA-2, possible Sugden Headmaster (and several others)...should be some good sounding music going on.

If the DCT-1 gives the R10 too much bass, I want one.

Wandering back to the topic, what was the Holmes-Powell modification to the RS-1?

 

[sTaTIx]

It boggles my mind that anyone would call the RS-1's or the bowl pads bright. I don't even find the SR series w/ bowl pads bright, harsh, fatiguing. Not even the slightest bit! And the RS-1's are supposed to be the antithesis of the SR line, a couple steps down from the "strident forwardness" of the SR's, or so it's been said. The fact that there are people who complain about the brightness of the bowl pads leads me to believe that some people aren't wearing the bowl pads correctly. The bowl pads were excruciatingly bright for the first week or so, when I was positioning them so that they sat on top of the ears. Since then, I've tried fitting them around my ears so that the drivers would sit more closely to the ear. I did this by moving them further back in relation to my head until the back of the earpads went behind the back of my ears.

The effect was pretty much the same as many of you describe when switching from bowls to flats: the highs tone down, mids are more present, the soundstage flattens / vocals sound closer.... The way I constantly read posts of people's horror stories with bowl pads that are so consistent with my experience with the aforementioned "incorrect fit" tells me that some people are flat-out wearing their bowl pads the wrong way. I mean, Grado designed these pads for a reason, folks! They're not out to deliberately make their headphones sound worse. And I would think that Grado Labs knows a little something about what sounds good, you know?

 

[Zanth]

Aren't the bowls intended to be circumaural? That is the only way I have ever used them. I still think they suck compared to the flats, but I will say this...the bowls with the HP-2s are very very good. I am hard pressed to say that the bowls may be even better than the flats for the HP-1000s...at least to my ears.

 

[kintsaki]

A year ago I upgraded from the Grado 125 to the RS-1 and the
RA-1 and had the same experience with you. I also listen vocals and few istruments.

The mid's were great, the sound was rich and had depth, there was plenty of bass, but the highs were ... not there, the sound was dry. What a disapointment.

The amp was good, it did improve both sets but the RS-1 was a bitter, headblaster, wasted $550. Even my teen son listenig to rock could see the difference, the sr-125 was so much sweeter.

Then came hours and hours of break in. There was a slight improvement or was it my getting used to them? do not know?

I posted my dissapointment, only one guy agreed and that one send me an email he was ashamed to admitt it publicly in the forum. All the others kind of frowned at me. I kept listening to both sets all of last year and every time i found the same thing the highs of the RS-1 problematic.

A few days ago i read about the ear pad mods the one that Squirt proposes on the RS-1. That did it. Look at it they even have a picture. Squirt says that he know hears details he never heard before. He is absolutely right.

It is the bass that resonates and destroys the highs and it is getting the driver further from the ear that solves the problem.

It is ironic that one of the reviewers that praises the RS-1 in Grado's web page talks about it " the over enthousiasm on the bass shadows some details on the highs that come out fine on the SR-125"

Recently I bought a Terratec 24bit/96KHz to try to record from vinyl played on my Linn Sondec LP12 to a CD, and I got home sick for the good old LP days,

the CD era, a step backwards

fortunately the 24bit/96 KHz brings back some of the past.

I have a feeling Grado tuned the RS-1 using one of his LP setups with one of his high end cartidges. On analog the RS-1 shines.

So please try the Squirt modification and let us know what you think.