[pigmode]

I was interested in getting a Sony a short time ago till I finally admitted to myself that the Sony sound wasn't for me. Instead, the plan is to get the old player modded, while I save up for a Cary 303/200.

There's a high level of skepticism towards mods in this corner, so the end result should be interesting. Also got some NOS Ediswans for the AH! enroute.

Seperates is a concept much considered but not quite embraced yet. There's too much tweakabilty built into my system already.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

I went out auditioning all day today!

And I've managed to audition... 5 players

3 in Causeway Bay--this shop connects all its CDPs' line outs to a switchboard, which is where my line in cable was plugged into.
marantz SA14 (not SA1)
Rega Planet
Arcam CD23 (supposedly from another lineup that is higher than even CD92)

The marantz has louder cymbals than all the rest for some reason. That's all I can remember. It was a brutal and short audition, because the 2 shopkeepers there were really helpful about changing my audition gear

It doesn't pass muster in their eyes (Porta Corda -> HD580, cheapo regulated PSU) --they went on and on about how my portable amp can't drive my HD580 properly and how my PSU can't drive my amp properly. (and they didn't even know about Meier Audio, let alone recognize what amp it is

) It's as bad as having ai0tron on one side and Audio&Me on the other side

2 in 'Michael's Audio', a little basement shop in Mong Kok--3 thumbs up for the service there! And the price is good too--the 555ES just sells for a little over $1000 (whereas in Causeway Bay it's the 333ES that sells for a little over $1000

)

Sony SCD-555ES
TAG McLaren CD-20R (ever heard of this guys?

)

I got to try out the standard setting and the 4 filter settings on the 555ES but wasn't sure I could really tell the differences--especially there's about a 1 second break in the music when changing filters.

Going by the salesman's recommendation, I used filter 1, which he says brightens the music a bit to suit the Senn HD580.

The 555ES had slightly more forward vocals than the TAG McLaren--but I tend to believe the sales when he says that the TAG should be more neutral than the 555ES, because the HD580 isn't exactly known for forward vocals is it?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Then I whipped out the Sony D-EJ725 PCDP

At first I thought I could tell a night and day difference--but that was due to a horrible mistake that shall not be revealed here

2 hours later, realizing my mistake, I went back to audition again.

This time I was not sure there is any difference

Maybe I was too anxious and tired from auditioning the whole day...

Joe

 

[Joe Bloggs]

On the other hand, I could easily tell the difference between an SACD that I was given to sample and the CD version of the same album.

The highs were much more realistic--certain instruments had a certain twang to it that was simply missing in the CD.

Supposedly the SACD and CD were mastered from the same high-resolution PCM master--so the differences should be due to the different capabilities of the two formats alone and not different recording and mastering processes.

Now if everything in the market were available in SACD I would not hesitate to buy the 555ES at all

As it is though,
...

Tin ear Joe

Well I'm sure I'll do much better on my next audition

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

The marantz has louder cymbals than all the rest for some reason.

I've read about this on Audio Asylum actually, that the Marantz is rather brutally revealing, so thanks for confirming it. Now I know I must get a Marantz SACD player.

That's not a bad little lineup at all you get to audition there...I'm interested in the CD23 myself, and the Planet, well my mommy said if you can't say something nice about something, don't say anything at all.

BTW, I suggest you listen to your PCDP first, and then hit the stores, not the other way around. I started out my 9000ES audition by first listening closely to how my Playstation 2 sounded, and then heading out with my R10s + JMT Altoid + Totem Sinews. Hearing the 9000ES with the PS2's sound in my head absolutely floored me, it was a HUGE difference. I was just suddenly hearing much more microdetails and airy warmth and bass presence than I had ever heard in my life from any source (at this point I could've happily sledgehammered the Rega Jupiter 2000 I auditioned previously

). Then hearing the SCD-1 with the PS2 and 9000's sound stuck in my head made me weep with envy and longing for $4k right then and there so that I could've taken that big silver monster home that day. But by the end of the day, the 9000ES was hardly a slouch considering it's a jack of all trades, so the 9000ES it was.

Anyways, the point is, listen to something that's plainly cruddy first, and then audition the better stuff.

 

[kelly]

Louder cymbals doesn't confirm the player to be "brutally revealing", it only confirms the player to be "bright", something else Marantz players are known for.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

BTW Vertigo, where did you see that R10 in Times Square? I thought there's only one HiFi shop there--and I don't see no R10 there

Well anyway, now I've listened to both... and it should have went both ways shouldn't it? That is the pcdp should sound like crud after I listened to the 555ES if the pcdp realy is crud and my ears were good enough to hear it as such... (and I was in the right condition to pay attention to my ears) Anyway I can try it the other way around next time just to be even.

To even things though, you only got to listen to the PS2 at home whereas I actually listened to the pcdp and the 555ES right next to each other

When I had trouble discerning them on my headphones I actually asked them to play out of the loudspeakers from the 555ES and the pcdp

The sales guy said that the soundstage from the pcdp was much more incoherent, 'like different instruments were just playing on their own'. Well I've never paid much attention to soundstage myself

And when the loudspeakers were playing I could only pay attention to the loose and boomy midbass from the $2000 Italian floorstanding speakers that are unfortunately placed in the jungle-o-speakers in a crowded audio shop--hardly what you'd call an audition venue huh

Well they already chose to plug into a pair of speakers on the outer edge of the front row--at first they plugged into a second-row pair and the effect was even more horrific

And I was just plain nervous--I've no confidence in my musical tastes at all

First Iron Maiden's Brave New World pumped out at room-shaking volume... (that was what I was using to audition the CDPs with headphones before) then when I got too nervous about the hard rock going out into the whole basement of shops and what other people might be thinking of this audio shop,

changing to local artist Miriam Yeung--making me even more nervous: exactly how much respect do local artists have among local audiophiles?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

This despite the salesman assuring me that 'only your musical taste matters'.

All in all, I just thought I heard some difference in the bass from the two players.

I have to learn to listen to differences that are not related to tonal balance... somebody give me a list of things to look for:
Hmm I'll try to list some myself--
-- Soundstage

-- Instrument separation
-- Feeling of reality?

Well, the salesman consoled me by saying, 'well if you can't hear the difference, good for you, that's so much less money you have to spend. Better than us--the more we are able to discern the more trouble we're in!'

I really like that guy

BTW, when playing Ghost of the Navigator on the Marantz SA14 early today, the cymbals simply sounded like nothing else I ever heard from the other players later today. If you have to ask me I'd say it's probably more bright than revealing--coz I'm willing to bet that most anything I heard today was just tonal differences

EDIT: but yeah the Marantzes are cheaper in HK--about $1300 for the SA14 and $3000 for the SA-1 I think--come get it here if you want

 

[Joe Bloggs]

I also need some help with what kind of listening material to take with me next time around. I never thought pop was supposed to have a 'coherent soundstage' (salesman's comment on the difference between pcdp and 555ES)--aren't the different instruments inserted into the mix separately anyway?

I suppose I need some classical music in the grand old tradition to help me notice soundstage heh?

So far I feel that local pop is a good test for how revealing something is, coz there seems to be an unlimited amount of instruments in the mix--real or synthesized... but I seem to hit the limit in how many sounds I can process at the same time way before I hit the limit of any decent system's resolution...

Or is there some other genre that can help me here?

 

[tanfenton]

Joe,

Yes, take some classical, but it won't do you any good if the performance is foreign to you.

You say you have "never paid much attention to soundstage;" true, I don't know what kind of stage is preserved and left for presentation in your music. A believable soundstage is a good portion of what high-end equipment can bring you. You'll know what it is you're missing when you have a recording that can spread its wings.

NGF

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Well, actually I took along a 'Special Limited Edition Ultra Sound 24 bit DSP' Star Wars the Best Collection but never tried it. Would that do?

I'm also familiar with Mozart's Requiem and Faure's Requiem but will have to borrow them. Library collections--would they be good enough?

 

[markl]

Joe,
I hate to say it, but your original salesman may have been right about the amp not being up to snuff. If you can't tell the diff bet a portable vs. a SCD-555ES on the HD580, I would look at the amp.

markl

 

[Vertigo-1]

The portable amp may or may not be to blame. I plainly heard the differences using my little Altoid amp during my auditions, so I don't believe the amp can be an excuse here. I'd actually suspect the headphones...Sennheisers in my book were never all that transparent or revealing.

Another thing that helped was to use closed headphones...again two elements that were immediately obvious to me upon hearing the 9000ES for the first time was that I was hearing much more details than before, heck in fact stuff I had never heard before buried deep within a CD which was primarily what made me realize how bad my sources really were and what I was missing, and an extra airy warmth to everything. Both of these things are going to be rather lost on you if you have a noisy background. Yes it was a comparison through memory but I bet a side by side comparison today of the 9000ES and PS2 would reveal the same results.

The R10s were quite obviously out in the open in the Times Square electronics level, which I believe was on floor 7. It was smack dab right behind a glass case for the entire world to see. You can't miss it...unless it's already been sold.

Last time I saw it was a good 3 years ago or more!

 

[Duncan]

Joe, the specs I listed were for the Marantz SA1...

Also, the reason why you might have heard little, if any difference (and I don't mean this nastily) is because you EQ everything... change its characteristics to suit your own style of listening... so then, listening to something cleanly... without EQ might've just sounded plainly bland, if not wrong to your ears...

Do without the EQ for a week, then re-audition... i'd be suprised if your findings were still the same

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Blighty I am interested in SACD but will wait until the format has proven its ability to survive its infancy and offers a couple thousand titles before making the leap. Also, I know of no SACD player that will play CDRs properly which is a major drawback, IMHO.

SACD has been around for a few years now, and there are already a couple thousand titles, from what I've read. My 333ES plays CDRs just fine -- time to get a SACD player, Blighty

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly I don't agree with the consensus among Sony owners that their SACD players equal the performance of competitors' similarly priced redbook-only players and think the gap broadens even more when used components are taken into the equation.

I swear I'm not purposely trying to disagree with you here, kelly

Honest question: what $400 Redbook-only CDP sounds clearly better than a 333ES? What $1000 Redbook-only player sounds clearly better than Vert's SACD unit? Some players I've heard at the same price point as the 333 sound different, and maybe some people might prefer that difference, but it wasn't anything I could say was obviously better. Plus you get the option to listen to a format that by every account I've seen is significantly better than Redbook. I think it's a very good option to look into for someone buying a source today. (As for used, used SACD players are also cheaper than new ones

)


Quote:

Originally posted by HD-5000 I hate to break it to ya great guys at team Sony, but it is most likely that the SACD format will die, thus leaving your expensive Sony player useless. Market demand is very small when compared to ordinary CD players. Team Sony, please dont hate me.

That's what they said about vinyl 15 years ago

Market demand for SACD has actually been increasing every year for the past few years, not decreasing. The number of SACDs released each month is higher now than it has ever been. And our SACD players will also play Redbook CDs quite well

(LOL, markl

)