Gilmore V2-Second chance impressions/review
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:24 PM Post #31 of 156
Quote:

Originally posted by BoyElroy
From my own personal experience, I can say that a stepped attenuator and improved psu makes a significant and immediate improvement in the Gilmore amp. Tuberoller, not having tried either, treads past the point of impartiality by dismissing (quite strongly, too) the possible impact of these changes.

This is what is meant by negative conjecture.


BE,

If you've tried both with the Gilmore, and they're improved the sound, than you are correct to disagree with his conjecture. I've seen this happen many, many times here before, though, without the accusations of impartiality and "meaness" that have dogged this review.

Would he have been any more correct to state positive conjecture? In other words, if he said that he thought an improved psu would improve the sound, would everyone take offense to that? And if not, what is the difference?


Quote:

You don't have to be wrong to write an unfair review.


I've now read this review for the fifth time and I would still like to hear how it's unfair. It may be wrong, but it doesn't sound unfair.
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:27 PM Post #32 of 156
I think you are two faced tuberoller and I think anyone who can look past your numerous acts of kindness and all the great things you have done for this community will realize that as well.

Biggie.
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:29 PM Post #33 of 156
Quote:

Originally posted by BoyElroy
FCJ--

On the contrary, I think that Tuberoller's subjective comments re: the amp are his business. OTOH, when he conjectures that adding a stepped attenuator and improving the psu would not significantly (in relation to said earlier amps) alter the character of the Gilmore, I have to object.

From my own personal experience, I can say that a stepped attenuator and improved psu makes a significant and immediate improvement in the Gilmore amp. Tuberoller, not having tried either, treads past the point of impartiality by dismissing (quite strongly, too) the possible impact of these changes.

This is what is meant by negative conjecture.


I own gear that uses stepped attenuators(two preamps,headamp and one integrated) I had a stepped attenuator added to one of the preamps and it did little to help the low-level detail.I have heard the standard version of the Max side-by-side with my stepped version and there are sonic differences but not so much in the lower level detail.I clearly stated my preferences and I don't see how anything I'm saying is wrong or unfair.If you disagree,please aquire a V2 and write a rebuttal review.If I didn't know how a stepped attenuator would effect the sound of an amp then my comments could be percieved as conjecture.
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:30 PM Post #34 of 156
Quote:

Would he have been any more correct to state positive conjecture? In other words, if he said that he thought an improved psu would improve the sound, would everyone take offense to that? And if not, what is the difference? -- FCJ



FCJ-

I think you know the answer to this as well as I do. The proper way to address this issue as a reviewer would be to do neither, but simply state that it is possible that such a change might improve the sound, or that it might not. That it is beyond the reviewer's experience to comment on this specific issue.
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:34 PM Post #35 of 156
Quote:

Originally posted by BoyElroy
OTOH, when he conjectures that adding a stepped attenuator and improving the psu would not significantly (in relation to said earlier amps) alter the character of the Gilmore, I have to object.


This seems quite ridiculous to me. As long as he says "I doubt" or "I don't think" or "it seems," it's clear that these are not based on what he heard but what he would guess the difference would be. It's for the reader to make of that what he will.

I think the real problem that people have with Tuberoller's review is that he didn't mince words. But if you want to read a Stereophile review, go to Barnes&Noble or read the review of one of the many newbies who has never heard a headphone amp before but shows up and says how the Gilmore V2 is the best ever made.
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:34 PM Post #36 of 156
Tuberoller--

Your job as a reviewer is to be as specific as possible. You have not heard the Gilmore with a stepped attenuator and so should refrain from commenting on something you have not personally experienced.

Moreover, if you cannot hear the difference between a quality stepped attenuator and a plastic film conductor, that opens up a whole other issue...
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:35 PM Post #37 of 156
Quote:

Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ
I think you are two faced tuberoller and I think anyone who can look past your numerous acts of kindness and all the great things you have done for this community will realize that as well.

Biggie.


Man,I'm hurt. Really. I have to go soon but I would love for you to post anything that you know to prove or imply that I'm two faced.I'm very curious.I thought you and I were cool.I guess I was wrong.I don't harbor any dislike for Antness,Kevin Gilomore or any owner of the V2(that I know of) I have no reasons to bash this amp.If you know of any please post them here.I'm really sorry this review has lead to such open hostility.I'll answer any of your concerns when I get home later tonight.
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:37 PM Post #38 of 156
Quote:

Originally posted by BoyElroy
FCJ-

I think you know the answer to this as well as I do. The proper way to address this issue as a reviewer would be to do neither, but simply state that it is possible that such a change might improve the sound, or that it might not. That it is beyond the reviewer's experience to comment on this specific issue.


Tuberoller did say that he has experience with this.
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:37 PM Post #39 of 156
Quote:

...or read the review of one of the many newbies who has never heard a headphone amp before but shows up and says how the Gilmore V2 is the best ever made.--DanG


DanG--

Hmmnnn...Speaking about unfounded negative comments.
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:38 PM Post #41 of 156
Quote:

Originally posted by BoyElroy
From my own personal experience, I can say that a stepped attenuator and improved psu makes a significant and immediate improvement in the Gilmore amp.


Curious to see where you listened to such a beast? At what volume level? I read this and immediately see that you are agreeing with Tuberoller that the Gilmore V2 is not worth its price tag until these are added. I thought for sure you were a Senn fan, used to throwing money at a problem instead of moving on, but no Grado
eek.gif


I just don't understand why you think that the one comment in the review based on intuition discredits the rest? Do you honestly believe that a better attenuation and more reserve power can drasically change the sound of the active components?

Are you agreeing that the V2 design was inadequate and therefore Tuberoller's experience was true but you have found these changes make it the 'holy grail' again? Realistically to say that these changes transform the amp is to say that the default V2 is running in a low voltage state, underpowered, not providing enough power to meet the requirements of the active components. Is that what you are saying? Are you saying that the HeadAmp Gilmore V2 is poor implementation of the Gilmore circuit? You must if these two simple changes make such a dramatic change
rolleyes.gif
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:40 PM Post #42 of 156
Quote:

Originally posted by DanG
I think the real problem that people have with Tuberoller's review is that he didn't mince words. But if you want to read a Stereophile review, go to Barnes&Noble or read the review of one of the many newbies who has never heard a headphone amp before but shows up and says how the Gilmore V2 is the best ever made.


+1 Insightful
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:41 PM Post #43 of 156
Quote:

Originally posted by DanG
But if you want to read a Stereophile review, go to Barnes&Noble or read the review of one of the many newbies who has never heard a headphone amp before but shows up and says how the Gilmore V2 is the best ever made.


Ha, this is any less ridiculous?
 
Jun 12, 2003 at 5:46 PM Post #45 of 156
Solude--

Boy, if I were a lawyer, I'd be objecting to all of your series of leading questions!
tongue.gif


I've said again and again on these boards that a stepped attenuator (and improved psu) does indeed make a noticeable and immediate improvement in the sound quality of the Gilmore. Kevin Gilmore's original dynamic amp was built with a high quality stepped attenuator and I believe that this should be considered the baseline "Gilmore amp".

I have a problem with Tuberoller crossing the line into something which goes beyond responsible impartiality. As for your other concerns, well, I suggest you do a little research on the board and come to your own conclusions!
wink.gif
 
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