[Patu]

Hi everybody. I've been quite inactive lately. My headphone rig has seen very little of use after a speaker bug bit me about a year ago. After that I mainly concentrated on building a perfect speaker rig for my use. Well now it's done and I don't feel any need to upgrade any parts on the speaker rig.

We had a small headphone meet last weekend here at Helsinki. Many very nice rigs, including some nice HD650 rigs. Well there was HD650 ran through WooAudio 6 (with pretty much all the upgrades) and the source was some modded sound card + FLAC files. I must say that I have never heard HD650 sounding that good. My own rig was way behind the performance of Woo6 + HD650 combo. It had dynamic, powerful and most importantly, very clear and detailed sound. Very nice indeed.

We were also about to make a little comparison between APuresound V3 and Enigma Audio The Oracle. But we made a very interesting discovery which pretty much ruined the possibility for this comparison. My HD650 sounded totally different than the other pair. Mine is bought on 07/2006 and the other pair was about two months old. Mine sounded much heavier and warmer. The bass wasn't as snappy and fast and it had weaker treble energy. This difference was not caused by cables or any mods. Both of us had the same mods on our headphones and we switched the cables but still they sounded totally different. Very weird indeed. My pair has that black cover around the element and the newer model had white cover. The difference was very obvious and easy to hear.

Anyways, this bothered me very much after the meet. I decided I have to change my headphones or the amp. But I can't afford maxed out Woo6 atm. so I decided to test some new headphones I haven't heard properly before. I picked up HD600 and K601 for test.

K601 was nothing special to my ears. Very much like K701. The sound was somewhat thin for my taste. Mids were hiding somewhere and bass was too weak. They did sound very clear and detailed though. Not for me anyways.

But the HD600, me likes A LOT. If I should put it simply, they are HD650 with less bass (talking about bass amount, not deepness or punchiness) and more treble energy. To my ears the sound of HD600 was in better balance than HD650's. I tried to audition them critically with my test tracks, but I kept on finding myself listening through albums with them. I just fell into the music. After that I knew that because I can't go for Woo6 ATM, I must go for HD600 because it works very well on my current rig. And here we are, today I bought them for quite a good price and now I'm burning them in. Almost ten hours behind already. I know these need much much more. I'm going to keep my Enigma Audio cable with them.

I'm not quite sure why my HD650s sounded so different compared to a newer pair. I must do some comparison with newer pair later.

AD2000 would also interest me but I'm on a tight budget now so that must wait.

Well there you have it, from mighty HD650 to mighty HD600.

 

[el_matt0]

congrats on finding your way back to the sennheisers. although, from having personally owned several pairs of both hd600s and 650's, you really should try a newer pair of hd650s after some burn in. with a good amp, they have more potential than the hd600s do I feel like. at your point, without a great headphone amp, i fully agree with your sentiments in that the hd600 is probably a slightly better sounding headphone. however if you really like the sennheiser house sound, instead of looking to a woo, you should consider the various balanced headphone amp options out there. when balanced, the hd650s are absolutely jaw-dropping, they will take down MANY MANY nicer cans. easily comparable to my $1500 dollar edition 9s. balancing just seems to tighten them up that extra bit more, add a tiny bit more refinement, and i find it opens up the soundstage even a bit more (IF you can even imagine thats possible!

)

 

[sacd lover]

I dumped my 650's for the 580/600 a couple years ago; same reasons.

I did become curious and bought another 650 last year to try them balanced .... which lasted a few months before I sold them. Even though the 650 is improved running balanced I still prefer the 600 regardless of SE or balanced operation.

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_matt0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif congrats on finding your way back to the sennheisers. although, from having personally owned several pairs of both hd600s and 650's, you really should try a newer pair of hd650s after some burn in. with a good amp, they have more potential than the hd600s do I feel like. at your point, without a great headphone amp, i fully agree with your sentiments in that the hd600 is probably a slightly better sounding headphone. however if you really like the sennheiser house sound, instead of looking to a woo, you should consider the various balanced headphone amp options out there. when balanced, the hd650s are absolutely jaw-dropping, they will take down MANY MANY nicer cans. easily comparable to my $1500 dollar edition 9s. balancing just seems to tighten them up that extra bit more, add a tiny bit more refinement, and i find it opens up the soundstage even a bit more (IF you can even imagine thats possible! )

I've shortly heard HD650 balanced but I'm not sure if that was a true balanced rig. They were connected to Lavry DA10 balanced outs. Didn't impress me at all. I had hard times finding any difference between Lavrys headphone out and the balanced outs. We had two identical pairs of HD650s on that comparison.

But I should try some higher end balanced rigs some day.

I considered going for a new pair of HD650s but it felt stupid to drop 100 euros to go from HD650 to HD650. Well I'm quite sure I'll go back to HD650 some day, for now it's HD600 for me. I like these very much.

And by the way, to me HD600/HD650 are very comparable with Ed9. Actually I like them both better than Ed9, even in a modest rig. Ed9 has most potential out of the Ultrasones I've heard but I still haven't been very excited about them. At the meet we had Ed9 driven by RudiStor RPX33 and the source was Rega Apollo CDP.

I don't find Ultrasones that special. Maybe their sound just isn't for me.

EDIT:

Thanks for the input sacd lover. I was quite sure you'd give some.

 

[iancraig10]

I go between the hd600 and 650 all the time. Depends what I'm listening to but I do believe that my 650's in particular have changed with time.

When I first had them, I wasn't that keen if I'm honest. Bloated and fat sounding so I tended to use the 600's more.

However, nowadays, I use the 650 more and although they have retained the lower end 'thud', it is actually a clean 'thud' with no overhang. I think that this has happened with time.

The other thing that I noticed is that the pads on my 600's are more worn down than the 650's and that would probably affect the sound.

I wonder whether your 650 pads put the drivers closer to your ears than the other pair that you tried? My 650 drivers are quite a bit further away from my ears than than my 600's, so they are maybe closer in sound. (Although the 600's do sound lighter in the bass region)

Ian

 

[robm321]

Patu, maybe now we can see eye to eye. As, I too, being a fan of the HD650 regarldless of how much I like to put it down at times, prefer the HD600 with it's balance and unique speakerlike sound.

 

[dcpoor]

can you take a picture of the driver elements in your hd650 and hd600? i recently got a pair of second hand hd600's and the elements look different from the two versions shown on apuresounds take apart guide. thanks.

 

[Gradofan2]

Ditto... although, I had the HD650s with the black material covering the driver housing, and don't have the "high-dollar" systems some of you have that may bring out the best in the HD650s.

Being a "gradofan" / "AD2000fan" / "HD580/600" - I simply prefer a sound that seems faster, brighter, clearer, more detailed, with sharper attack, yet with great bass and mids... than... I ever heard from my modded HD650s. And... my HD580/600s do have the white a material, rather than the black material. Whatever... the HD580/600s sound sublime with my modest set up... and "that's a good thing."

But... I'm now curious about the sound of the "updated" HD650s - which have the white material covering the driver housing - as to whether it gives them more of an HD580/600 sound, just with a bit more bass. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Sennheiser "updated" them, as well as the HD580/600s with a metalic material, to replace the black silk material of earlier models - resulting in less "veil" and greater clarity.

I'm certainly interested in what you all learn in this regard, and whether that change has improved the sound noticeably. It might well explain why there is such disparity of opinion regarding the sound of the HD650s... or... even earlier versions of HD580/600s.

 

[el_matt0]

hmm, depends what kind of balanced amp you heard the hd650 out of. while the lavry probably wasnt the best source, for a showroom type listen, the balanced outputs of it should have been adequate. it really depends on which amp you use with them i find. without a doubt, i agree with whats been said here, the 650 are a MUCH "pickier" headphone. I found that they did improve much over time, initially i was not that impressed with them either as opposed to the hd600s. if you like the hd600s, id say stick with them, despite there being obviously some major differences between the two phones, they both stick well within the sennheiser house sound that we all love so much, so dont waste a ton of money upgrading to the 650s if your unsure about it. I especially wouldnt bother doing it UNTIL you have an amp and source you feel might be able to get the best out of the 650s, until then, stick with the 600's which it sounds like you are more than happy with!

even still, if you ever DO get to the point where you feel like you might have an amp that can bring out the best in the 650's , try someone elses pair before you waste a ton on it just to find out you still prefer the 600s (as ultimately, as is with most things in the headphone world, its purely preference, i know many people who still prefer the hd600 to the 650, even balanced and out of a good amp). me personally, i just prefer that extra amount of refined low end that the 650s have, and after a good burn in, i dont feel that any mid or highs are sacrificed.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I had the same thoughts about the HD-650. I nearly sold it before I got the Zana; now I'm glad I kept it. I liked it so much, I bought a HD-600. I still like the HD-650 - it has an ease and refinement hard to find elsewhere - but the HD-600 has become a favorite for the same reasons you listed.

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Patu, maybe now we can see eye to eye. As, I too, being a fan of the HD650 regarldless of how much I like to put it down at times, prefer the HD600 with it's balance and unique speakerlike sound.

Well isn't it my old friend robm321.

By the way we had the same pair of GS1000 in the meet, which I've auditioned several times before. Now in this meet they sounded quite ok with my own setup. I compared them to HD650. At least the sibilance was gone now. Not sure if it was my previous source causing it or are the GS1000 finally fully burnt in. Or then I've destroyed my hearing at night clubs and bars. Anyways quite nice. They still fit on my head like crap, leaving a huge gap between my jaw and ear.

I still preferred Sennheiser sound to GS1000 but now I must pull off my comments of them sounding bad, because they didn't at that meet.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But... I'm now curious about the sound of the "updated" HD650s - which have the white material covering the driver housing - as to whether it gives them more of an HD580/600 sound, just with a bit more bass. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Sennheiser "updated" them, as well as the HD580/600s with a metalic material, to replace the black silk material of earlier models - resulting in less "veil" and greater clarity.

So they've done some updates on them(?) This makes it interesting. This new pair of HD600 I have has the white material covering the driver. Just like the newer pair of HD650 did have.

Maybe I'll try HD650 again on summer when my wallet should feel thicker again.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But... I'm now curious about the sound of the "updated" HD650s - which have the white material covering the driver housing - as to whether it gives them more of an HD580/600 sound, just with a bit more bass. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Sennheiser "updated" them, as well as the HD580/600s with a metalic material, to replace the black silk material of earlier models - resulting in less "veil" and greater clarity. I'm certainly interested in what you all learn in this regard, and whether that change has improved the sound noticeably. It might well explain why there is such disparity of opinion regarding the sound of the HD650s... or... even earlier versions of HD580/600s.

Do any of you know how you can identify the current HD650s with the white metalic material covering their driver/element housings vs the older ones with the black silk material - which will allow a buyer to identify them with an on-line vendor (e.g. serial number, UPS code, mfr date, or some other code on the box, etc.)??? Most vendors are not going to open a box, and remove the foam linings to take a look to verify, which ones they're selling.

 

[Chrysoberyl]

Damn it! I missed the Helsinki meeting! Perk...! Changing the subject,I'm also one of those who prefer the Hd600 to the 650,although lately I'm starting to fall in love with my k501...

 

[Chrysoberyl]

By the way,my Hd600 also have the "white stuff" in them.They sound great indeed,no veil here at all.Actually,the highs are better than the k501's...

 

[Dominat0r]

wow, im going to have to do the pepsi challenge with the 600s vs my stock 650s. Who will win the blind SQ test?