[heliosphann]

This is the second recent thread that's been flooded by all this Schiit talking! 

 

[miceblue]

(Above) Frequency response: Focal Utopia stock (blue line) and Focal Elear with Utopia pads (green line). (Click on image to see full size.)​

So just from this data, are you saying I can get the $3999 Utopia's sound signature with the $999 Elear+Utopia ear pads? Interesting...

 

[jude]

So just from this data, are you saying I can get the $3999 Utopia's sound signature with the $999 Elear+Utopia ear pads? Interesting...

 
No, that's definitely not the conclusion here. What's most fun and interesting about the pad swap is that, yes, you can Elearize one or Utopia'ize the other. However, the comparison also makes clear the differences between the drivers--the Utopia driver's superiority (in terms of resolution and refinement) is made even more evident.
 
In other words, with a Utopia with Elear pads, I don't think I'd ever miss the Elear--I would, however, miss the Utopia with Elear pads if that disappeared and I was left with only the stock Elear.
 
Frequency response comparisons do not tell the whole story, and this isn't the first time I've seen this.
 
NOTE: I've spent way less time with the Elear with Utopia pads than I have swapping Elear pads between the Elear and Utopia, so I won't say much about Elear with Utopia pads yet.
 

Isn't this thread about the Focal Elear & Utopia? Maybe I'm still green here but I thought the idea was to stay on topic and in this case as it relates to Focal Elear & Utopia and how it sounds and pairs. Just say'n

 

I agree, guys--let's keep this thread on topic.

 

[pkcpga]

I'm very surprised you find the Schiit DAC boring.  As for bit depth a little digital 101 is in order: 21 bit corresponds to a signal-to-noise ratio of 121 db: a near impossible target for the following analogue electronics after the DAC stage to achieve.  Even 16 bits, which corresponds to a signal-to-noise ratio of 96 db would be tricky for all but the best designed analogue stages.  Most DACs, including the Naim, will struggle to achieve a signal-to-noise ratio of -100 or lower (equal to about 17 bits) in their analogue stages

Also I cannot think of any music in existence today which truly achieves a 24 bit, 144 db signal to noise ratio: just because its in a 24 bit container doesn't mean it has a true 24 bit signal-to-noise.  BTW if you were to really hear a recording with with a true 24 bits S/N at a realistic level, you would probably be deaf for a while after (or permanently).  24 bits is used in the recording industry as headroom for the production and is not really appropriate for the consumer.  Nonetheless, 24 bits has been hijacked as "higher resolution"  by those wishing to (re)sell their back catalog of music.

Summing up: a higher bit depth is not a higher resolution it is a greater signal-to-noise ratio (technically, dithering noise is reduced as the bit depth goes up).  As usual in hi-fi the bigger is better is marketing spin (sample rate or bit depth) to appeal to the non-technical or hi-fi snob.

Copied reasoning from schiit ad. It's fine if your happy, I own too many dvda and DSD music to have a DAC that can't play them, unfortunately schiit doesn't play those formats among others. Shiit did state in 2013 if they reach 10,000 titles they would update their DACs to play DSD then they apparently switched that comment to 30,000 now. I guess when Sony hits that number shiit will update that question and comment section again. But for the sound part, it's personal I like the colored sound of the naim and for transparent sound I like the Dave, nothing wrong with the schiit besides not playing common formats, the sound part is personal preference. But I can't wait to hear the utopia through the Dave.

 

[TSAVJason]

Copied reasoning from schiit ad. It's fine if your happy, I own too many dvda and DSD music to have a DAC that can't play them, unfortunately schiit doesn't play those formats among others. Shiit did state in 2013 if they reach 10,000 titles they would update their DACs to play DSD then they apparently switched that comment to 30,000 now. I guess when Sony hits that number shiit will update that question and comment section again. But for the sound part, it's personal I like the colored sound of the naim and for transparent sound I like the Dave, nothing wrong with the schiit besides not playing common formats, the sound part is personal preference. But I can't wait to hear the utopia through the Dave.

I've read all that and I see nothing about the Focal Elear or Utopia,

 

[griff2]

"Copied reasoning from schiit ad.."
 
Er no, I understand digital audio and was trying to impart some knowledge, if you're not willing to take new information on board that's fine by me.
 
Anyway enough of this, time to get back to discussing the Elear or Utopia.

 

[miceblue]

However, the comparison also makes clear the differences between the drivers--the Utopia driver's superiority (in terms of resolution and refinement) is made even more evident.

Ah, that would be an interesting comparison to hear in-person. I've heard both stock before, so now you've got me curious about pad swapping!

 

[Muinarc]

I will say that I listened to both of these several times at the SF meet and they are both wonderfully built and sounding pieces of equipment. I wish I had been able to try these pad swaps, it sounds like a fun option on these. I could see myself owning both the Elear and Utopia to suit my preferences on any specific day to suit my mood.
 
I am in agreement with Jude's comment about drifting toward a fuller sound than neutral. As I told Miceblue recently, the high end seems to be nearing "absolute neutral" and all of these top end headphones are starting to sound amazingly similar. I find myself looking for the "fun" less-than-neutral gear. Yes, there are still fairly stark differences between them; and everything under the sun to suit any person's preferences, but I find it amazing how similar the Utopia, LCD4, Ether Flow, Abyss, 009, HE1K, etc have become. Only a few years ago ToTL were hd800, STAX, LCD3, etc and those are way, way different from each other than the current crop in my opinion.

 

[Gyp64]

Perhaps Jason can help with this question:  Will a Utopia balanced cable be available to fit the double 'Pono style' balanced outputs?  I am thinking of the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty which has this setup for its balanced connection.

 

[TSAVJason]

Perhaps Jason can help with this question:  Will a Utopia balanced cable be available to fit the double 'Pono style' balanced outputs?  I am thinking of the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty which has this setup for its balanced connection.

Yes from WireWorld

 

[TSAVJason]

I will say that I listened to both of these several times at the SF meet and they are both wonderfully built and sounding pieces of equipment. I wish I had been able to try these pad swaps, it sounds like a fun option on these. I could see myself owning both the Elear and Utopia to suit my preferences on any specific day to suit my mood.

I am in agreement with Jude's comment about drifting toward a fuller sound than neutral. As I told Miceblue recently, the high end seems to be nearing "absolute neutral" and all of these top end headphones are starting to sound amazingly similar. I find myself looking for the "fun" less-than-neutral gear. Yes, there are still fairly stark differences between them; and everything under the sun to suit any person's preferences, but I find it amazing how similar the Utopia, LCD4, Ether Flow, Abyss, 009, HE1K, etc have become. Only a few years ago ToTL were hd800, STAX, LCD3, etc and those are way, way different from each other than the current crop in my opinion.

This is a very interesting perception. Each of these brands have their own very distinctive sound signatures. So I'm confused. Are you really saying they've started to sound the same? If so, I'd like to understand better how you came to these conclusions. Would you mind expounding a bit?

 

[XERO1]

   
No, that's definitely not the conclusion here. What's most fun and interesting about the pad swap is that, yes, you can Elearize one or Utopia'ize the other. However, the comparison also makes clear the differences between the drivers--the Utopia driver's superiority (in terms of resolution and refinement) is made even more evident.
 

 
Wow!  Thanks for confirming my suspicions about this.  This is awesome news!  So now, if someone is considering getting the Utopia, it doesn't mean that they have to choose between either having the deeper low-end response of the Elear or the higher resolution of the Utopia.  Now they can pretty much have their low-bass cake and eat it too!
 
And just like you, I think we are going to see a lot of people preferring the Elear pads with the Utopia. 
 
I would still love to see a Pittards leather version of Elear-tuned pads made for the Utopia (if it's even possible to do).
Either way, this is great news! 

  

 
 
Thanks again, Jude!

 

[Muinarc]

This is a very interesting perception. Each of these brands have their own very distinctive sound signatures. So I'm confused. Are you really saying they've started to sound the same? If so, I'd like to understand better how you came to these conclusions. Would you mind expounding a bit?

 
I figured it might be confusing as I was typing it out.

 
Let's say we can measure the differences in tonality/linearity/neutrality between headphones in inches.
 
Then what I was getting at, is an LCD3 and HD800 are let's say 12" apart. They are quite different beasts to me.
 
Today I feel that the Utopia and LCD4 are only 4" apart.
 
The problem explaining myself is the common issue in the High End with getting across "huge" differences. "I got this headphone cable and the changes were HUMONGOUS!!" we see this every day on these message boards. I have tried several kilo-buck headphone cables and while I do think differences are there to be heard, they have never been THAT big. That's just my opinion though

 
I just see this as progress and proof that the designers know what "The Absolute Sound" should be and they're all moving toward it in their own way with their unique technologies. It's not a knock on any one headphone.

 

[jamato8]

  Perhaps Jason can help with this question:  Will a Utopia balanced cable be available to fit the double 'Pono style' balanced outputs?  I am thinking of the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty which has this setup for its balanced connection.

I look to purchase one of the Focal headphones and asked Whiplash Audio about the different connectors and they will offer all of them. 

 

[Gyp64]

Thanks Jason and jamto8.  From all of the above I definitely see a pair of Utopia cans and Elear pads in my future.