[spinali]

Don't spend too much on Ultrasone.
Though some may claim the sound's fantastic;
It's overpriced; you'll likely moan
When getting scratches on the plastic.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinali /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't spend too much on Ultrasone. Though some may claim the sound's fantastic; It's overpriced; you'll likely moan When getting scratches on the plastic.

Thanks for adding that balancing perspective to the discussion.

However, it seems like the OP has already bought into (ie. "likes") the Ultrasone sound, and determined it might be worthwhile to spend the extra $$ on their TOTL can.

As far as "overpriced" - nearly every headphone over $300 is probably overpriced for what you get in materials. And, of course, there are the usual "point of diminishing returns" discussions that will always take place. Whatever. Get on with it. Expensive headphones, as with most things valuable, warrant careful handling.

I am always interested in opinions comparing the Ultrasone PL750's (which I own & love) with the Edition 9's (which I haven't heard yet).

 

[bdh]

??? You haven't heard the Edition 9's and you were the '06 National Meet Co-Coordinator?

When did the Edition 9's come out?

 

[bdh]

And as far as warning someone Ultrasones are overpriced. While that's always debateable. I strongly disagree for what you get compared to other similarly priced headphones. In fact, I am about to spend $3500 on an interconnect for my Edition 9 rig! Talk about something being overpriced!

 

[Golden Ears]

Ultrasones are overpriced in the same way a Bugatti Veyron is overpriced. Which is fine with me. The Bugatti costs 1.44 M USD now. But when you factor in the development costs and number of cars sold.. the price of that car- ie what it really cost to make it is about 5 million British pounds. 9.8M

It's a VW! The Bugatti Veyron 16-4 has a $1,440,800 price tag. I'll take two, please! on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

So the cost of a headphone is not merely the component cost. And in this regard- it is possible that these are a “bargain” in terms of what they deliver. I expect Ultrasone will use this flag ship to drive the sales of the rest of the line.

I heard these with stock cable and with the V3 cable. I think it is fair to say that IF (I said "IF" ...as I would highly doubt this would ever happen) Ultrasone were to offer a headphone with the V3 cable as a Ultrasone Edition 9 SE (Special Edition) people would be talking about this recabling very differently- likely urging people to bypass the Ultrasone Edition 9 in favor of the SE model. Even if the cost were $300 more. They sound like a completely different model in terms of refinement.

IMHO the Ultrasone Edition 9's sounded very good on their own but had some not insignificant detracting flaws which if tamed would still leave a dynamic authoritative headphone without making it so "polite" that it became less involving and background like.

This was further tamed by using a Millet Hybrid Portable. Yes portable.... and I felt that this combination delivered such great imaging, immediacy, and full range authority, that the headphones are not being held back by being run by a TTVJ Millet Hybrid Tube Portable. I personally have decided that I will likely be happier with this combination than say.... trying to get a Tube home system with HD 600's or 650's and then buy a Predator and some midway decent IEM. I think this combo would beat both systems while costing less and ultimately deliver more satisfaction more of the time since I expect to listen at home less than on the go. (I still have to buy the Predator and UE-11's ... just to be smaller for sports.. and I am not going to regret it.)

Please do not go OT on the Veyron, there has been one in Aspen for the past few days. I drove a Maybach 6.3...and I can say that without doubt the Maybach is overpriced and not worth it at all. But the Veyron... is a whole different thing. I think these Ultrasones are a whole different thing too when recabled... there is still room for improvement in them in terms of high frequencies, but if you lose the imaging... well then I will take them with the V3 and be happy. I'll ride off into the high end audio sunset... upgraditis effectively medicated to be considered in complete remission. There are still some flaws (some frequency dips and some imaging shifts that seem hard on occassion...hell it least it doesn't sound like 3 blobs) - but this system combo does SOOOO many things right that I am hoping I can live with them for a long time to come.

If you listen to The End by the Doors...you are transported. Jim Morrison's voice is fullbodied (not hollow)- the echo not over done... it is simply haunting...and this was not in a dark room listening alone..no no no.... this was in a harshly lit conference room with tons of headfiers stomping around..chatting…. and unusually enough this was through a current ipod classic (no mods) with some ALO dock cable (luminette what was it?) and going through the Millett Hybrid tube portable. I compared the Imod and v cap later and without fear of being ridiculed I can plainly say unmodified sounded better with greater synergy- the imod/vcap dried things out too much. It started stripping away at the high end analog sound and shifted it closer to digital sound. With the unmodded ipod/ALO docking cable/Millett/V3 Ultrasone Edition 9 I COMPLETELY FORGOT I was listening to digital. I thought I was listening to a clean perfect LP played on a Goldmund studio turntable with t3-f arm with a Koetsu Rosewood cartridge through some full range apogees being fed by Mark Levinson ML-3 amps- and it was almost “Speaker like”. And what a fricking bargain.... to get that sort of sound... no scratch that sound is not the right word.... -EXPERIENCE- for under $2200 total!

For those brought up on digital sound...they will find themselves listening for digital artifacts...that are not really there anymore. Listening for more space between instruments that digital does to string ensembles..that doesn't really exist. And they may think to themselves..."hey I didn't hear that, I liked that, and it is missing". But in actuality you don't hear that in a concert unamplified. You hear massed strings.

The Eagles Hell Freezes over Hotel California... well it was like being at the concert itself being suspended by a Cherry Picker 12 feet over the crowd...

(I really wonder how the microphone set up was for that?) The sound for live... was startlingly impressive... I swear I was there.

I just wish I had had more time to listen with a wider range of music..

The best part- was you could play them quietly and still feel very satisfied.. in that regard they are almost like hearing protection for headfiers.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdh /img/forum/go_quote.gif ??? You haven't heard the Edition 9's and you were the '06 National Meet Co-Coordinator? When did the Edition 9's come out?

They were not present at that first National Meet in April of '06. The Edition 9's first went on sale around September of '06 or so. I've yet to be at a meet where they are present.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Ears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ultrasones are overpriced in the same way a Bugatti Veyron is overpriced. Which is fine with me. The Bugatti costs 1.44 M USD now. But when you factor in the development costs and number of cars sold.. the price of that car- ie what it really cost to make it is about 5 million British pounds. 9.8M It's a VW! The Bugatti Veyron 16-4 has a $1,440,800 price tag. I'll take two, please! on Flickr - Photo Sharing! So the cost of a headphone is not merely the component cost. And in this regard- it is possible that these are a “bargain” in terms of what they deliver. I expect Ultrasone will use this flag ship to drive the sales of the rest of the line. I heard these with stock cable and with the V3 cable. I think it is fair to say that IF (I said "IF" ...as I would highly doubt this would ever happen) Ultrasone were to offer a headphone with the V3 cable as a Ultrasone Edition 9 SE (Special Edition) people would be talking about this recabling very differently- likely urging people to bypass the Ultrasone Edition 9 in favor of the SE model. Even if the cost were $300 more. They sound like a completely different model in terms of refinement. IMHO the Ultrasone Edition 9's sounded very good on their own but had some not insignificant detracting flaws which if tamed would still leave a dynamic authoritative headphone without making it so "polite" that it became less involving and background like. This was further tamed by using a Millet Hybrid Portable. Yes portable.... and I felt that this combination delivered such great imaging, immediacy, and full range authority, that the headphones are not being held back by being run by a TTVJ Millet Hybrid Tube Portable. I personally have decided that I will likely be happier with this combination than say.... trying to get a Tube home system with HD 600's or 650's and then buy a Predator and some midway decent IEM. I think this combo would beat both systems while costing less and ultimately deliver more satisfaction more of the time since I expect to listen at home less than on the go. (I still have to buy the Predator and UE-11's ... just to be smaller for sports.. and I am not going to regret it.) Please do not go OT on the Veyron, there has been one in Aspen for the past few days. I drove a Maybach 6.3...and I can say that without doubt the Maybach is overpriced and not worth it at all. But the Veyron... is a whole different thing. I think these Ultrasones are a whole different thing too when recabled... there is still room for improvement in them in terms of high frequencies, but if you lose the imaging... well then I will take them with the V3 and be happy. I'll ride off into the high end audio sunset... upgraditis effectively medicated to be considered in complete remission. There are still some flaws (some frequency dips and some imaging shifts that seem hard on occassion...hell it least it doesn't sound like 3 blobs) - but this system combo does SOOOO many things right that I am hoping I can live with them for a long time to come. If you listen to The End by the Doors...you are transported. Jim Morrison's voice is fullbodied (not hollow)- the echo not over done... it is simply haunting...and this was not in a dark room listening alone..no no no.... this was in a harshly lit conference room with tons of headfiers stomping around..chatting…. and unusually enough this was through a current ipod classic (no mods) with some ALO dock cable (luminette what was it?) and going through the Millett Hybrid tube portable. I compared the Imod and v cap later and without fear of being ridiculed I can plainly say unmodified sounded better with greater synergy- the imod/vcap dried things out too much. It started stripping away at the high end analog sound and shifted it closer to digital sound. With the unmodded ipod/ALO docking cable/Millett/V3 Ultrasone Edition 9 I COMPLETELY FORGOT I was listening to digital. I thought I was listening to a clean perfect LP played on a Goldmund studio turntable with t3-f arm with a Koetsu Rosewood cartridge through some full range apogees being fed by Mark Levinson ML-3 amps- and it was almost “Speaker like”. And what a fricking bargain.... to get that sort of sound... no scratch that sound is not the right word.... -EXPERIENCE- for under $2200 total! For those brought up on digital sound...they will find themselves listening for digital artifacts...that are not really there anymore. Listening for more space between instruments that digital does to string ensembles..that doesn't really exist. And they may think to themselves..."hey I didn't hear that, I liked that, and it is missing". But in actuality you don't hear that in a concert unamplified. You hear massed strings. The Eagles Hell Freezes over Hotel California... well it was like being at the concert itself being suspended by a Cherry Picker 12 feet over the crowd... (I really wonder how the microphone set up was for that?) The sound for live... was startlingly impressive... I swear I was there. I just wish I had had more time to listen with a wider range of music.. The best part- was you could play them quietly and still feel very satisfied.. in that regard they are almost like hearing protection for headfiers.

For those who care, those were my Edition 9 with APS V3 cable, and my TTVJ Portable Millett Hybrid, plus Luminette's stock Edition 9 that he is talking about. I had a stock pair #439 at the same as my re-cabled #440, and I agree that the APS V3 Edition 9 were clearly a step ahead in refinement. It is also detailed enough to brutally reveal the flaws in the ripped lossy music files, if the source and amp are good enough to deliver it. So, I do disagree with the impressions regarding the iMod with portable vcap dock sounding too digital, because it is fairly flawless IF one is listening to lossless files. Do you know the bit rates of the music on the other iMod, because I can tell you I only had about 8gb lossless on my iMod, and the rest was of lower quality.

In my case I am a CD person and haven't gotten around to ripping many CD's yet. When I did rip them, the sound from my ipod and mac headphone out wouldn't let me hear the difference between 192kbps and 320kbps or lossless, so there was no point ripping at higher resolution. Up until last August (when I joined Head-Fi) I didn't have a USB DAC or an iMod, and the only way to get the best digital sound was by playing CD's. I used my Sony D-5, and D-25s a lot. Until I got my iBasso D1 last September I didn't have a way to get good quality sound out of my computer, and so I have 5 years of music in iTunes that was all low resolution.

But because I have THREE portable CD players with optical out and a portable DAC with optical input, ripping all my CDs as lossless wasn't a priority. I only added the iMod to my repertoire about 4 months ago and haven't fully utilized it because of that. And I can't rip all my CDs yet, because my iTunes library has about 300 gb of movies and TV shows for my kids on it, with not a lot of room for my CDs.

I also have to fit my favorites in my ripped Library onto my 8 Gb nano and 16 Gb Touch, plus it has to fit on my kid's small nanos and ipods. So, only 8 gb (24 hours) of music on my my iMod was lossless that day, and the rest was anywhere between 128kbps to 320kbps. Typically my kid's rock/pop is at lower 128 kbps bit rates, and much of my new age and jazz is 224-284 kbps eMusic files. Then most of my recent CD rips are 256-320 kbps and I have a limited number of my favorite Jazz CD in lossless.

My point is that with the lower bitrates, the iMod with vCaps and re-cabled Edition 9 is brutally exposing of the music and it sounds digital and unpleasant. But, with my lossless CD rips it sounds significantly better. I find the iPod classic is not that bad because of the way it slurs/blurs the music just enough to not horribly expose the artifacts. I enjoy the 3G nano with LOD to amp for that same reason. But, with lossless files and a good recording the iMod with portable vcap dock CAN and DOES project a sense of space and ambience that is well above the abilities of the non-iMod iPods.

In a similar fashion, I felt the stock Edition 9 could make bad music rips sound okay but the re-cabled ones are more exposing and honest. Once I get that 1 terabyte HD, I'll rip about 400 CD's in lossless to my Library, and I promise you that the iMod with vcap dock via re-cabled Edition 9 will play them the way they were meant to be heard. I figure by then I'll get a second 160 gb iPod just for movies and TV shows, so the iMod can be dedicated to just music.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for adding that balancing perspective to the discussion. However, it seems like the OP has already bought into (ie. "likes") the Ultrasone sound, and determined it might be worthwhile to spend the extra $$ on their TOTL can.

I'd definitely call myself "bought into" by this point

Paypal has finally finished processing my funds, and I sent my payment to Alex today.

The Pro 750 are amazing. They really are. I just have a few minor qualms and wants remaining that they dont quite address. We'll see if Ed9 fits the bill

 

[Golden Ears]

Ah.... so what I heard on your Imod was not lossless then??? Well time to go to another meet and listen again but this time with lossless.

So in that case I retract what I said about the standard iPod classic sounding better than the Imod with vcaps. I must have been listening to a lossy file. Not a fair comparison at all.

ON the bright side, using the stock ipod classic and ALO dock cable to millet hybrid portable and ultrasone 9 with APS V3 ... sounded great...something I would not have expected without a good d/a converter..

So I am very excited to be proven wrong here.. it means even better sound from a portable may be possible.

So on your iMod what were DSOTM and Hell Freezes over encoded at? Just so I know not to use that bit rate...

Actually I likely will never encode any music in anything but lossless. Unless I can use a higher bit rate. Audio books excluded.

I just made a bad broad blanket assumption that all Head-fiers who are after the best sound would automatically use full files or lossless.

I realize you probably have lossless files you use for evaluation. If I don't have enough room for all my music- I'll likely just carry another ipod. I used to carry a 1st gen Nano (sounded the best) 3rd gen Nano, and 160 gb ipod classic so cold weather battery life wasn't so aggravating and I had more music in lossless.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Well, less than 8gb on the 80gb iPod was lossless = 10%.

Here is the playlist of my lossless music that you can import into itunes, to look at and see if you played any of it on the iMod.

There are 24 CD's with 333 songs totaling 24 hours of listening (about 15 of the songs are personal stuff I don't keep on the ipod).

apple_lossless.txt

DSOTM was in 256k AAC iTunes+ and Hell Freezes over was 320k MP3 CD rip.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Ears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually I likely will never encode any music in anything but lossless. Unless I can use a higher bit rate. Audio books excluded. I just made a bad broad blanket assumption that all Head-fiers who are after the best sound would automatically use full files or lossless.

For my E10 I found Ogg Q9 was the sweet spot - tracks around 15mb each, at 320 bitrate.

And update: Alex has ordered my Ed9 and it will be shipped out to him today! Wahoo!

 

[Sovkiller]

You will absolutelly love it, till now and with no remorse, all I can add, is that the Edition is the most musical heapdhone I have ever heard and period!!!...it removes all the artifacts, and just let you enjoy the music behind them, sorry to be so ethusiastic, but that is the way I feel...

 

[Covenant]

Alex has finished the recable, extension cord and mini interconnect I ordered, and has shipped it out today.

The final setup I decided on was:
Ed9 with 4ft APS V3 with super nylon, terminated in Switchcraft 1/8in
6ft 1/8in to 1/4in V3 extension cable, also in super nylon

Hopefully I'll have them by mid next week

 

[Covenant]

The APureSound V3 Edition 9's have finally arrived

And man are they things of beauty. I had them delivered to the office, where all my co-workers were expecting to say "you spent so much money on THAT?", but even they were silenced when the flight case emerged from the swimming pool of packing beans, and the lid opened to reveal the gleaming black chrome earcups.

Alex did a top-notch job packing them, although I'm slightly dissapointed that the V3 cable is too thick to fit within the flight case properly. That's a shame for portability.

I'll post initial impressions after I get them home and have a listen out of the Pico

 

[Planar_head]

Sounds like a thing of beauty -- now time to change your sig