[Lorspeaker]

the elise is one inch wider than my darkvoice.....
one of my gears will go over the cliff if she bunks in  

 

[hypnos1]

  I live in the UK and luckily never got taxed due to me requesting them to value the item and ship it at a price low enough not to be taxed by customs. And on top of that the shipping was free which is crazy seen as the amp weighs around 10kg. And the $570 price was because it was on offer at the time but seems like that has ended now. A steal in my opinion considering how amazing this amp is; even for $659 I would say it is a bargain .

 
Hi sgbwill2...that, I fear, is playing a VERY dodgy game...not all customs people are that gullible! I think you were just very fortunate - there are those who have been pounced on HARD by trying to pull that trick (which is why many sellers now tell you NOT to ask them to do this - with good reason). I once had a fairly expensive item that the seller valued really low, but when the customs bill came I had a real shock...just my luck, lol!

Well, there is no boutique parts (cables, antivibration pads, granite slabs etc...) that could bring as big sound quality improvement to some audio gear than simple good solid engineering.

 
Right on the button, S!

 

  Hey H1, I am sure you are enjoying her as she gets better and better

  Do you think you can comment on resolution and bass as compared to LD IVSE, using the same tubes of course?

 
Hi A11.
 
Both superior, even at present with just stock tubes...I simply cannot believe it (didn't actually want to at first to be honest, given - as you well know! - my adoration for the C3GS + GEC CV2523 sound in the LD). Tomorrow I shall see what the GECs and some higher grade 6SN7s (including the Melz 6H8C) bring to the table...would have done so tonight, but I'm not pushing my luck with "er indoors"!!..

 

  the elise is one inch wider than my darkvoice.....
one of my gears will go over the cliff if she bunks in  

 
Hi L.
 
Does your DV have 1 or 2 powers/drivers?  I would suspect if not 2 of each then the Elise will drive your low-impedance cans rather better. So there could well be a casualty in the offing! 

 

[Acapella11]

While you are waiting for more news on the Elise prototype, you could read this interesting abstract about the 6AS7G power tube in hifi amps: http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/The_6AS7G.php

 

[hypnos1]

  While you are waiting for more news on the Elise prototype, you could read this interesting abstract about the 6AS7G power tube in hifi amps: http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/The_6AS7G.php

 
Hi again A11...Have sneaked away for a couple of minutes!
 
VERY interesting...not to mention encouraging. They too seem to hold the Russian version in fairly high esteem, and I must admit I am already very impressed with them....so how on Earth can I go to bed without further checking? - I wouldn't be able to sleep, lol!..I shall just have to pop in the GECs for a quickie before bed...(and perhaps the PsVane CV181T-IIs to partner....and perhaps?....oh dear...).

 

[JamieMcC]

   
Hi again A11...Have sneaked away for a couple of minutes!
 
VERY interesting...not to mention encouraging. They too seem to hold the Russian version in fairly high esteem, and I must admit I am already very impressed with them....so how on Earth can I go to bed without further checking? - I wouldn't be able to sleep, lol!..I shall just have to pop in the GECs for a quickie before bed...(and perhaps the PsVane CV181T-IIs to partner....and perhaps?....oh dear...).

Colin congratulation it sounds like you are really enjoying your Elise, tube rolling is a curse I know all to well having now curbed the habit I have been finding it hard to let go of some of my own stock pile that's slowly built up. I still get a excited when a new find arrives especially if it is from the 1940's or 50's its just a bit mind bending  to think they have survived for 60-70 years at all let alone sound amazing. Unwrapping a old tube from its original packaging followed by the anticipation of whether it will work let alone sound any good is a experience to savour.
 
I wonder if you might pass on a comment or two when you get round to trying your Melz 6H8C I have a love hate relation ship with my one. It took a while to find a good tube to match with it and sounds at its best when listening to my vinyl set up.
 
How are finding the treble on the Elise with your T1's? 
 
Cheers
 
Jamie

 

[gibosi]

 
As for later impressions...what a difference another 12 hours can make...my previous remarks about finer detail in the upper range I am having to retract already. UNBELIEVABLE. It is in fact now present, and along with better transient response kicking in, the air and space I have come to love is MUCH more apparent. And with that deep bass getting even tighter, I am almost (?!) lost for words. How these modestly priced tubes can be delivering such a sound is rather astounding...especially after the kinds of MUCH more expensive tubes we have been using this past year and more in our LD rolling!  I never imagined the Feliks guys could come up with something that would perform in this way at anywhere near this price point...and the burn-in (not to mention rolling!) has only just started.

 
It is important to remember that your Little Dot was never designed to run a pair of 6AS7s. Yes, you managed to fit them in with an external heater power supply, but still they are starved for current. In a sense, one might say the LD runs them rather gently. But in an amp that was designed from the ground up to run them hard, even cheap 6AS7s really shine. And I imagine your GECs will be even more astounding, again, in a circuit designed and optimized to run these tubes.
 
Enjoy

 

[Lorspeaker]

DV336se...one 6as7...one 6sn7,
Doubling up will triple up the bassblast on my LCD2!?

I defintely know the bass on the k812 sounded perforated on dv336
When playing copland's Fanfare to the Common Man by Eiji Oue.

 

[gibosi]

DV336se...one 6as7...one 6sn7,
Doubling up will triple up the bassblast on my LCD2!?

I defintely know the bass on the k812 sounded perforated on dv336
When playing copland's Fanfare to the Common Man by Eiji Oue.

 
I seriously doubt that there would be any difference with one or two 6SN7s. But I am inclined to think that two 6AS7s are better than one.

 

[Johnnysound]

   
It is important to remember that your Little Dot was never designed to run a pair of 6AS7s. Yes, you managed to fit them in with an external heater power supply, but still they are starved for current. In a sense, one might say the LD runs them rather gently. But in an amp that was designed from the ground up to run them hard, even cheap 6AS7s really shine. And I imagine your GECs will be even more astounding, again, in a circuit designed and optimized to run these tubes.
 
Enjoy

Yes sir ¡¡    this is what I think about  it.    I am in no way a tube expert, but 30 years into the audio hobby teachs you one or two things. First,  in general terms power supplies are extremely important if you want  sound quality.  The consensus is that the "ultimate" level with the LDMKIII  amps require some mods to fit  external power supplies, so you can feed 2.5 amps to each  or 6080 family power tubes.  I never tried this mod myself,  but  if the people here says that this is the best, then it is.   You put 6.5 volts and 2.5 amperes into each tube, all by the book, and  gibosi says it better than me:   "still,  they are starved for current".    I do not know the technical reasons, but  if the power supply is capable of high current,  far above what is required, and also have somo other virtues,  then we have "headroom",   and don't ask me why, but the component will sound a lot better: relaxed, effortless,  open, unstrained...
The fact that the Elise sounds so good with "cheap" russian tubes is even more relevant,  and I read that  the (real) Svetlana Winged "C"   6AS7G, St. Petersburg Factory old stock, is a terrific tube.    
 
At first glimpse in the Elise, we have a serious power transformer. I did my homework and some Feliks-Audio amplifiers feature Ogonowsky transformers, custom- wound hand made, super nice  trafos made  in a small factory in Poland  by Mr. Ogonowsky, an innovator and kind of a "Guru"in Poland for his transformers.   To Feliks Audio:   I want this one in the Elise , non negotiable.    I really hope that the Elise have one of these babies, and not an OEM thing.  Will sign up for one  at once....            

 

[hypnos1]

 
Colin congratulation it sounds like you are really enjoying your Elise, tube rolling is a curse I know all to well having now curbed the habit I have been finding it hard to let go of some of my own stock pile that's slowly built up. I still get a excited when a new find arrives especially if it is from the 1940's or 50's its just a bit mind bending  to think they have survived for 60-70 years at all let alone sound amazing. Unwrapping a old tube from its original packaging followed by the anticipation of whether it will work let alone sound any good is a experience to savour.
 
I wonder if you might pass on a comment or two when you get round to trying your Melz 6H8C I have a love hate relation ship with my one. It took a while to find a good tube to match with it and sounds at its best when listening to my vinyl set up.
 
How are finding the treble on the Elise with your T1's? 
 
Cheers
 
Jamie

 
Hi Jamie. Yes, tube rolling certainly is addictive...and EXPENSIVE! But great fun - and cheaper(?) than golf...

 
I don't have your "top dog" round holes Melz, unfortunately, but perhaps a step up at least from the general 6H8C?...which I must admit is doing a very fine job at present.
 
My 'potentially sibilant' recordings are easier on the ear with the Elise and T1s - thank goodness. I probably won't need to try loquah's (simple) mod after all. I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that the "problem" is 99% down to the recording - either poor miking/engineering, or deliberate engineering to cater to those who crave an extremely bright sound. I feel trying to 'compensate' post-production for this may possibly also take away a certain amount of sparkle and air, so I am happy (at the moment!) to leave well alone. I don't want to do anything to these T1s, I'm loving them so much. Later down the road I shall pop the HD650s back in, just for interest's sake...
 

   
It is important to remember that your Little Dot was never designed to run a pair of 6AS7s. Yes, you managed to fit them in with an external heater power supply, but still they are starved for current. In a sense, one might say the LD runs them rather gently. But in an amp that was designed from the ground up to run them hard, even cheap 6AS7s really shine. And I imagine your GECs will be even more astounding, again, in a circuit designed and optimized to run these tubes.
 
Enjoy

 
Hi g...yes indeed, you're right of course...which is precisely why I approached the Feliks guys in the first place, lol

. After our results with the LDs I was eager for more! It certainly is eye-opening just what the correct topology does for relatively modest tubes. Having said that, it was equally eye-opening what our rolling accomplished in a modest amp!...
 
Which brings me to a rather surprising (for me, anyway) discovery...last night I just had to have a quick taste of the GECs, and my initial response was one of slight confusion - expecting much "better" sound, it was rather more "different". I'm obviously going to need a LOT longer proper comparison, but initially the presentation was a bit lighter, with apparent tad less dynamism. A bit more air and soundstage, but not massively so...and was not exactly blown totally away by its comparison to the modest Russians!..mmmm...I've obviously quite a task on hand sorting this one out as well....more midnight oil (and household murmurings!)...What I did notice however was that I could turn up the volume with less stress on the ears, which can sometimes be a bonus. (Perhaps the GECs will "shine brighter" with different drivers, but that will have to wait I'm afraid).
 
What seems to be coming apparent though is that people will NOT have to be spending 100s of dollars on tubes to achieve a stellar sound - particularly the powers - stock is THAT good..(I'm only glad I didn't pay anywhere near what a pair of the GEC variants now cost!!). 
 
Looks like I'm on a bit of a steep learning curve with this new baby...you more experienced guys are gonna have to help me out with this, just as I have learned a good bit from the LDTAVTRolling Guide guys this past year and more...please!!...
 

   
I seriously doubt that there would be any difference with one or two 6SN7s. But I am inclined to think that two 6AS7s are better than one.

 
This question certainly has a few heads scratching (even Lukasz's!) - all they know is that it did seem to have a beneficial effect on practical listening, and were happy to go to the extra expense (and trouble) of using two...so we shall have to wait and see, it would appear! 

 

  Yes sir ¡¡    this is what I think about  it.    I am in no way a tube expert, but 30 years into the audio hobby teachs you one or two things. First,  in general terms power supplies are extremely important if you want  sound quality.  The consensus is that the "ultimate" level with the LDMKIII  amps require some mods to fit  external power supplies, so you can feed 2.5 amps to each  or 6080 family power tubes.  I never tried this mod myself,  but  if the people here says that this is the best, then it is.   You put 6.5 volts and 2.5 amperes into each tube, all by the book, and  gibosi says it better than me:   "still,  they are starved for current".    I do not know the technical reasons, but  if the power supply is capable of high current,  far above what is required, and also have somo other virtues,  then we have "headroom",   and don't ask me why, but the component will sound a lot better: relaxed, effortless,  open, unstrained...
The fact that the Elise sounds so good with "cheap" russian tubes is even more relevant,  and I read that  the (real) Svetlana Winged "C"   6AS7G, St. Petersburg Factory old stock, is a terrific tube.    
 
At first glimpse in the Elise, we have a serious power transformer. I did my homework and some Feliks-Audio amplifiers feature Ogonowsky transformers, custom- wound hand made, super nice  trafos made  in a small factory in Poland  by Mr. Ogonowsky, an innovator and kind of a "Guru"in Poland for his transformers.   To Feliks Audio:   I want this one in the Elise , non negotiable.    I really hope that the Elise have one of these babies, and not an OEM thing.  Will sign up for one  at once....            

 
Hi J.
 
Power supply certainly does seem to have a surprising effect on overall performance/sound, and the Elise's transformer definitely looks the business....
 
You really have done your homework - well done!...VERY interesting info on the "Ogonowsky" unit, but it seems to me this would be something reserved only for MUCH more expensive equipment. Let's hope they've pulled yet another rabbit out of the hat and managed to accommodate such an animal in the Elise - or one very much like it... another question for Lukasz!
 
ps. Despite being a very large transformer, the housing doesn't get overly hot, even after 6+ hrs...and the entire case gets just slightly warm...which is nice to know...

 

[Rossliew]

More detailed impressions, please!!

 

[hypnos1]

  More detailed impressions, please!!

 
On it, R...illness in the house has impeded progress somewhat I'm afraid, but am now about to put the Russians back in and try a few different tracks to get a better idea...timing of the arrival couldn't have been worse, I fear...

 (I too am champing at the bit, lol!!)...

 

[Rossliew]

   
On it, R...illness in the house has impeded progress somewhat I'm afraid, but am now about to put the Russians back in and try a few different tracks to get a better idea...timing of the arrival couldn't have been worse, I fear...

 (I too am champing at the bit, lol!!)...

Hope its nothing serious! Then i shall not place unduly pressure on you further

 

[Acapella11]

Hi H1, hoping you and / or your wife will be recovering well.
 
As a suggestion for the Elise thread, you could edit the first post to update the interested reader either with your pictures, video, impressions or bullet points with links to the respective posts. This would have been also helpful in the LDTAVTRG thread but not possible due to Dept_of_Alchemy's inactivity.

 

[hypnos1]

 
Hope its nothing serious! Then i shall not place unduly pressure on you further

 
Hi R - AT LAST I feel I can give some more specific findings...and thanks for your concern. The good lady is thankfully on the mend now...

 

  Hi H1, hoping you and / or your wife will be recovering well.
 
As a suggestion for the Elise thread, you could edit the first post to update the interested reader either with your pictures, video, impressions or bullet points with links to the respective posts. This would have been also helpful in the LDTAVTRG thread but not possible due to Dept_of_Alchemy's inactivity.

 
And thanks to you too A11...it's been a difficult couple of months - and I'M not the one with the ailments (but still suffering, lol!)...

. Still, hopefully all should be well for Christmas...In one way the Elise delay was unfortunate, but in another gave welcome distraction...(And I shall do as you mention re the first post...good thinking...).
 
Anyway folks, here are my own (still quite early, really) impressions : given MY ears, and MY gear - ie Audiolab 8200CD (with ESS Sabre DAC); pure silver interconnects; Tacima mains conditioner; shielded mains cables with wattgate connectors and unswitched mains socket, all with (don't laugh!) upgraded fuses (I'll do anything within reason - and pocket - to squeeze every last bit out of decent equipment, no matter how insane some may think it, lol!). And don't forget the Beyer T1s...
 
First I shall give my overall take on what is delivered, then rather more specifics...
 
       To begin with, you notice the sheer absence of any noise whatsoever, even with the volume knob at max - assuming of course you don't have any nasty environmental gremlins spoiling your parade.This is immediately a most welcoming sign...
 
When under way, as I mentioned previously, what hits you straight off is the sheer energy and dynamism, and you feel on course for some real excitement - which this amp never fails to deliver.
It manages to do this in a very cohesive, balanced way - with no part of the spectrum dominating excessively. The stock power tubes are perhaps slightly biased towards the lower frequencies (compared to the GECs, for example), but this in no way detracts from response in the upper ranges. Bass hits hard and deep, with good detail and control. Mids seem just right, again with good detail - no excessive recessing - and the T1s certainly do them justice. Treble has excellent detail and extension which, as before, combined with fine transient response and overall extremely good clarity give a soundstage that is wide, with good depth and height - my T1s, being SEMI-open don't seem to give quite as wide a stage as FULLY-open would (especially cans like the HD800), but the effect is a tad more intimate as a result...the GECs, as I shall elaborate on more at the end, do however provide extra stage - all round.
 
Voice and instrument positioning are exceptional, along with separation that gives 'air' to them all, without spoiling position or interrelation...again, VERY cohesive and nicely balanced. Both voice and solo instrument  come over as positioned just 'right' - not too close, not too distant, regardless of the degree of accompaniment.
 
Tonal range is extensive - both vocal and instrumental. There is sweetness where there should be sweet, and raw power where there should be - spine-tingling, bone-rattling (as much as headphones are capable, that is!) drama...
 
(Oh dear, this is taking me much longer than I thought, so I'm afraid I shall have to continue after dinner...SORRY!)...back soon...