[HOWIE13]

  Do you still feel that its a good amp at the current price of $700?  For me with shipping it would end up around $800, still a good deal? 
 
Another question is what is the output impedance of the Elise?  I couldn't find it on the Feliks site.

 
I think I read somewhere that the output impedance is 50 ohms.

 

[WB2016]

 
i have heard this before about rhodium-coated contacts sounding bad ... and i am just as guilty as anyone else concerning parroting this 'info' ... but did you actually get a chance to try this as a blind-test comparo?  before anyone gets in a snit about sound-sciences, this is just an actual query and nothing else is implied.
 
LR, when you write text above the quote box ---  & if someone else wants to quote you, then nothing shows up ... as per this example.
 
 
you wrote: "Yessir, it's a Utopia system. I did not get in touch with them, I am pretty sure they would have done the same with me, make me feel guilty haha
 
I have plans to get rid of Focal from my life, there is a lot of it but I will slowly transition, this is inevitable after this 2nd time."
 
if you think  treat their customers with a wave of their hand, look at how they treated their usa distributor; let's call them bill & bob -- again, this goes back more than 2 decades.  for many years, these 2 guys travelled the usa, demo-ing the spkrs & building up a hard-earned cadre of dealers.  then came the big c.e.s. & they said you guys set it up and we'll be there too.  after the first nite of the show, they had an end of day pow-wow where they informed bill & bob that they were out and thank you but we'll build a new co. now to distribute in the usa.  no buyout, no compensation ... sayonara.     so you want to be in hi-end audio biz? ... assume the position!

 


I am not of the opinion the rhodium has to sound bad, but rhodium and less so silver have a tendency to impart a bit of brightness, clarity and sometimes some edginess. Copper and Gold more so tend to give a warmth, naturalness, sometimes a bit of darkness. I like the sound of gold
Both rhodium and gold can have their place depending on the system and equipment you are using it with.

The Sabre dacs even the best tend to be bright and you have to watch the trebble and avoid a diggy sound, which is not helped by rhodium. In some tube amps instead rhodium can be beneficial. You can play with it yourself hifi fuses are inexpensive, they cost around 20-30 Euros and make more of a diference than cable connectors IMO, but also here everything has an effect. My opinion is that if you can spend 25€ on something that is currently the bottleneck of your system you are one lucky SOB in hifi. Worst thing that will happen is that you have a spare fuse You can also easily see how type of metal influences a system, what is not to like.

Yeah did some AB comparisons, which is pretty easy, but best done with two people one changing one remaining in the sweetspot for speakers. With headphones its easier

Regarding Focal as a company, yeah No Comment. They produce fine hifi, car stereo equipment, own Naim, etc. But they are run in the not so pleasant French corporate way while considering themselves the best. This will continue until people stop running to them. Also the look of the Optima is just iconic A real shame, but its funny how they seem to enjoy the position and superiority vibe, which may even help in getting some high end customers through snobism, but eventually there will be new competitors and people will remember the BS. Unfortunately they are very good at business, products and are diversified and such behavior will not end them.

Regarding making a living in highend. Yeah its really tough, never put all your cards on one bet. A lot of the greatest are there for the passion but will get taken advantage of by investors. See D'Agostini, which for me at least has turned into a beautiful FXXXk You story of the highest caliber with Krell.

Cheers
WB

 

[WB2016]

Hi WB2016,


 


My Elise is used almost exclusively as a preamp with great results. As far as I know, JV plays records when using his Elise.


 


Did not quite understand what you wrote about burn in times for the amp and tubes, but the Elise needs around 150 hours, and some of the tubes I use (EL3N) need maybe 400 hours.


 


A long time ago I used to buy more expensive equipment, but I have now come to the conclusion that you can get excellent sound with carefully chosen budget priced components and tubes.

 


Concur,

the EL series acording to recording industry people needs 300hrs+
The whole discussion was regarding the more esoteric burning in vs. greynoise. Greynoise is fround upon in some highend circles.

Cheers
WB

 

[WB2016]

@mordy, If you think the Elise is a budget amp then I like your definition of "budget"

 


Yeah,
Definition of budget: Appropriate for a restricted budget; inexpensive: a budget car; budget meals.

So fits very well

WB

 

[DavidA]

 

  @mordy, If you think the Elise is a budget amp then I like your definition of "budget"

 


Yeah,
Definition of budget: Appropriate for a restricted budget; inexpensive: a budget car; budget meals.

So fits very well

WB

But is it a good value at the current price of $700 or almost $800 if you include shipping to Hawaii?

 

[WB2016]

I burned the X20 full stock !
After I just changed to have non "fuse" plain copper. 

I did not changed the Elise fuse (but think it is a bit over sized). I use gold fuse on my Magnepan (Medium/High) protection.
 
About burning, I used a looping / ramdom playlist with many bitrate format 44.1/48 multiples and DSD, some pink noise, and lot of piano and organ music, intimist pop or a capela song. This is how my dealer do burning for demo dac.
 
Probably Tube output or R2R with many resistor needs a those physical stress during burning, IMHO it is less important for X20.

I'm not a bass boost/expand lover (probably why i do not think the 5998 is the best tube wirh EL3N) with Elise.

I do not use the Elise as a preamp as I'm listening with headphone not at the same place of my main speaker system....

 


Just plain copper, you like to add excitement to your gear Brave man. (For others: That is bridging the fuse with copper foil, or wire = no fuse)

Sounds like you did some modding already, what were your experiences?

Heard the X20 does need about 300hrs but there is less need for punishing burn in as some call it for sure. Not a fan of greynoise/pinknoise for burnign in but that regime sounds good. Never was a fan of quick burn in although that is sometimes needed for burn in for clients. If I have gear burning in at home, for myself or client cannot have pinknoise unless it is really needed. Pinknoise burnin seems to give an edgier character to some gear IMO.

95% of bass boost I have heard sounds bad, its hard to do it right. But having it is a cool feature. Strangely a large portion of the total dacs have that option although it is quite a bit extra. The implementation of the bass boost there is among the best and depending on the music and use quite fun. It adds something to all the music with no artificialness. Also sometimes bassboost can come in handy if you have less efficient subs in an efficient system.

I am always curious to throw a "budget" component into a system to see how it holds up and where there are issues, it would be unfair to say the least. However heard the preout is good. When I get the chance, which is unfortunately rarely I like to do things that throw systems for a loop and change how you perceive it. I like doing that but once I have a system I like its more leave and forget, or ideally leave and the system disappears.

Cheers
WB

 

[UntilThen]

 
But is it a good value at the current price of $700 or almost $800 if you include shipping to Hawaii?

I definitely think so. $499 is an introductory price and unsustainable. At $700, it's still incredible value because I have heard Woo Audio Wa2 and Wa6se and I prefer what I hear from Elise.
 
Elise has a fast transient response, dynamic and has the right touch of tube amp goodness without being overly warm and lush. I know these traits are influence by tubes used too but fundamentally, Elise sounds like a polished performer. It's an engaging and euphonic tone.
 
Shipping to Australia is a hefty $120 but now that I have live with the amp for 6 months, I reckon it's all worth it.

 

[DavidA]

@UntilThen, thanks for your opinion, guess I'll do a little more research on the Elise, I almost went for the Liquid Glass but decided at the last minute that Cavalli might just come out with something better down the line.

 

[UntilThen]

@DavidA my pleasure. Best of luck to your deliberations. 
 
I was at Head-fi Can Jam 6 in Sydney several months ago. There were about 15 of us in a big room with enough good gear to make me stay the whole day. I heard Stax SR-009, 007 with Blue Hawaii, Violectric V281, Woo Audio Wa2, Wa6se, Audio Gd Series 6, a multitude of headphones, not the least HD800, HD800S, T1 black anniversary edition, AKG K812, HD700, HE500, AKG 702, etc, Yggy DAC, Metrum Acoustics Hex, Chord Mojo, etc. I had a field day basically. Really good sound for such a small group.
 
I came away from that meet feeling satisfied with Elise and my headphones. She did not seem out of place in that esteemed company. I am very content with this setup now and find myself listening to music rather than craving more upgrades. 

 

[UntilThen]

   
 
AWESOME, I am thinking Audiofrog... Or HAT Hybrid Audio Technology!!!!!! 

LR stop pouring money into car audio. Head-fi cost less, no need to sound deadened car doors and roof and turn your car into a Tiger tank.... and sounds better. 

 
... and stop lusting after these HAT hybrid.
 

 

[DecentLevi]

I've been enjoying the Elise lately, but sorry folks, I've been deeply backed up with a home business to log-in here much.
 
It seems I've been getting fairly peaky, harsh highs lately from the Elise. I've had to reduce the treble by a couple decibels all day, and it's been this way on two different headphones and with multiple recordings. Would anyone say this is just a normal part of the burn in process? Or maybe it's because I've been burning it in with four power tubes (the transformer is always stone cold).
 
Oh also @hypnos1 you asked what I've got stashed away that's more valuable than the Elise? It may sound a bit strange but here it goes:
Rare recordings on video tape of an extinct TV show called AMP: An electronic music video show from 20 years ago which used to air late night on MTV that had otherworldly good permutations of abstract imagery synced to electronic music, done in such a way that it forever inspired the course of my life. To me, it's worth more than any amount of rubies and diamonds.

 

[UntilThen]

@DecentLevi  I would suggest you try conventional power tubes and see if that eliminates your peaky treble. Try EL3N with GE 6AS7GA. 
 
I've not tried quad 6J5 before so can't comment on that.

 

[WB2016]

LR stop pouring money into car audio. Head-fi cost less, no need to sound deadened car doors and roof and turn your car into a Tiger tank.... and sounds better. 

 
... and stop lusting after these HAT hybrid.
 

 


I get the car audio thing. Its a first person driving game with dolby 4.1 suround sound It clears your mind and also is a good equalizer to headphones. For me the only "bad" thing about hps is the lack of gut churning bass, that makes all the water molecules in your body dance,

That you can do in a car. Its also far easier to leave the scene of a bass crime with a car than when you are at home and everyone knows where to find you, having a ground shaking bass is a whole lot riskier then.

WB

 

[UntilThen]

 

I get the car audio thing. Its a first person driving game with dolby 4.1 suround sound It clears your mind and also is a good equalizer to headphones. For me the only "bad" thing about hps is the lack of gut churning bass, that makes all the water molecules in your body dance,

That you can do in a car. Its also far easier to leave the scene of a bass crime with a car than when you are at home and everyone knows where to find you, having a ground shaking bass is a whole lot riskier then.

WB

This is the boot of my car with a 41 litres enclosure for a 12" Morel Ultimo subwoofer but I have enough of ground shaking bass. I rather have the T1 bass now. 

 

 

[DecentLevi]

Thanks UT, I'll try that.
 
And since I've mentioned about the TV show AMP, I thought it wouldn't be fitting not to post an example. Here is a compilation of some of the best-of the abstract electronic music video show AMP. Take note this is a rip of 20 year old video tapes so the quality suffers, though I had manually re-synced some of it with higher quality audio
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v95207799xgQ9WEQH