[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson /img/forum/go_quote.gif DA, In light of your recent re-appreciation of Wand (and your continued admiration of Celi and Guilini), you should re-listen to Tintner with an open mind. These are incredibly spiritual performances, patient and wise.

Perhaps there is room for Tintner to move up the ranks........I always did think his 0-3 symphonies were quite good, just the 4-9 did not seem to stand out from the tough competition. I will revisit them soon

 

[omergrigg]

Hello everybody,
I've recently become a Bruckner fan, and a good friend offered to get me either the Skrowaczewski or the Karajan set.
I've listened to a few recordings of Bruckner symphonies, but not all the Skrowaczewski or Karajan ones.
I'd be grateful if someone could graciously write here a comparison between the two sets. Particular details I'm interested in are the interpretation (mood, style, etc.), sound quality, and if the recordings are studio or live. For that matter, any other interesting points of comparison are most welcome.
In addition, if there are any particularly individual symphony recordings (other conductors included) that are exceptionally spectacular, I'd be pleased to hear about them.

Thank you all!
Omer

 

[DarkAngel]

Both Skrowaczewski/Oehms and Karajan/DG sets are studio recordings, the Oehms are newer recordings and would be best if sound quality is only concern, both are highly rated but I prefer Karajan overall for performance. The later 4,7,8,9 especially tilt me to Karajan who is a master at performing these, very few can match him here let alone surpass him. HVK's final versions of Bruckner 7,8 with VPO are just magnificent and should be aquired along with his complete set.

The only real problem with Karajan/DG set is sound is a bit thin and bright, but nothing that should prevent thier aquisition. Someday DG may get around to giving us a good remaster for this set, and really unleash thier full potential.

 

[Kevin Sinnott]

Karajan also recorded Bruckner for EMI. I believe that EMI tended to record more naturally than DG does, at least that is my opinion upon hearing samples of both sets. I don't have every recording Karajan did for either label, but I've got Bruckner's 7th and 8th on EMI and both sound very good.

Another conductor who's on both labels, not quite as famous, is Jochum. You might find him a worthy option as well.

I used to look forward to remasterings, but not as much anymore. Often the label's engineers will use noise reduction and boost volume, I suppose thinking that hiss reveals a recording's age and louder is better. DG, who often multitracked 1970s and later recordings tends to remix as well, with uneven results to my ears.

 

[eyeresist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by omergrigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've listened to a few recordings of Bruckner symphonies, but not all the Skrowaczewski or Karajan ones. I'd be grateful if someone could graciously write here a comparison between the two sets. ... In addition, if there are any particularly individual symphony recordings (other conductors included) that are exceptionally spectacular, I'd be pleased to hear about them.

Hello Omer!

I have the Karajan set, plus symphony 4 on EMI. I only have Skrow doing symphony 0 ("Die Nullte"), so I can't give you a direct comparison.

As stated above, Skrow has more modern sound, though I didn't find the mix much more natural than Karajan's DG set. From Skrow's performance on B0 and another CD I have of his, I think he is a very good conductor, shaping the music sensitively and getting a good sound. However, I think his performances sometimes lack energy.

Karajan is notorious for imposing his personal style on the music but has undeniably made some great recordings. His Bruckner set is very "grand" in style, which I think very appropriate, though others may differ. His performance of B6 is generally judged flawed (B6 is sometimes regarded as somehow anomalous and difficult). His separate performances of 4, 7, 8 and 9 are generally regarded as superior.

Jochum's EMI set is often the choice of new Bruckner fans, simply because it is so cheap and easily available. Some love it, but for me it was a great disappointment. It seemed to me wrong-headed at every turn, too personal where I think Bruckner should be universal, rhythmically inadequate in parts, feeble trumpets, and generally lacking "magic". But let your own ears be the judge.

On my limited experience, I would recommend the Karajan set, but either way you would do best to supplement it with individual recordings. Can I ask, by the way, which Bruckner performances you've heard so far?


If I could recommend one individual recording, it would be (as I've said repeatedly in this thread!) Mravinsky's performance of B9 (1980, though some labels get the date wrong). It's live, with less than great sound, but I've yet to hear a performance as powerful.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by omergrigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif In addition, if there are any particularly individual symphony recordings (other conductors included) that are exceptionally spectacular, I'd be pleased to hear about them. Thank you all! Omer

3 - Kubelik/Sony
4 - Klemperer/EMI or Karajan/EMI
5 - Sinopoli/DG
6 - Klemperer/EMI GROTC
7 - Karajan/VPO/DG
8 - Bohm or Schuricht editions of Great Conductors of the 20th Century
9 - Giulini/VPO/DG

 

[omergrigg]

Wow! Thanks for all the suggestions.
Let me make a bold move...having read your responses, What would you regard as the very best recordings (in terms of overall performance, interpretation, sound quality etc.) of individual symphonies (individual recordings AND individual CDs within complete sets included)??

 

[DarkAngel]

2 - Tintner/Naxos

3 - Kubelik/Sony

4 - Klemperer/EMI

5 - Sinopoli/DG

6 - Klemperer/EMI GROTC

7 - Karajan/VPO/DG

8 - Bohm edition of Great Conductors of the 20th Century

9 - Giulini/VPO/DG

 

[DarkAngel]

Tennstedt/EMI Classics Gemini 4th (BPO) + 8th (LPO)

Even though Tennstedt is not a well known Bruckner conductor I picked up a used copy of this mid priced 2CD release mainly to get another 8th for my collection.

These are early digital 1982 era recordings and the treble is a little thin in 4th, otherwise very detailed. The 4th tempo is pushed a bit too fast in some parts for my taste, doesn't have that mystery and majestic power that Klemperer, HVK can evoke......the deeper currents are not fully explored here but an exciting version in the climatic sections, an average performance.

The Tennstedt 8th is much better overall, performs Nowak version with noticeably better more natural sound quality and using London Philharmonic. For some reason Tennstedt much more in tune with Bruckner here, there is depth, nueance and insightful introspection to go along with powerful drama. The LPO brass has wonderful fire and layered depth giving us wonderful interplay among instruments, very moving rendition.

So a mixed bag, you get very good 8th with average 4th having less than ideal sound. Still at this price level worth getting for 8th alone for me.

 

[Facade19]

I recently purchased the Haitink/CSO recording of Bruckner's 7th on the CSO Label. Really love it. Though I have nothing to compare it to I must say the playing evokes deep remorse and sadness.

 

[Facade19]

Got the Karajan 4th with the Berliners and Boulez's 8th with the Viennese. Outstanding. The brasses in the 4th are stunning and the strings in the 8th are heart melting. Momentarily, I am anticipating the arrival of my Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic set. Cannot come soon enough.

 

[sniks7]

Hmmm. I have Karajan 1966 DG, Klemperer 1972 EMI, Giulini 1977 EMI and Jochum 1967 DG (part of his full set) for Bruckner 9. These are all on vinyl.

On a superficial listen using speakers, the biggest difference between them is the recording balance.

DG always seem to have the strings right up at the front and everything else behind a wall in the next city sitting in a pool of syrup. I find this can be a problem with DG on vinyl - I have a sneaking suspicion the RIAA isn't right.

The HMV recordings seem to put everything next to the mike: you can imagine poor old Klemperer getting trampled as everyone tries to jostle for position. The Giulini seems the slightly better balanced of the two.

The Jochum seems fairly anonymous: in his case DG put everything but the strings in a neighbouring country.

If I had to list these in order of performance, I probably couldn't because the engineering is so much in the way. Are there any natural sounding recordings out there that are also well performed?!

I do sometimes wonder how much of a recorded performance actually comes down to the recording engineers, and whether we should be looking not for conductors with certain orchestras, but conductors with certain engineers.

On some old HMV stuff, if I see 'Walter Legge' on the sleeve I get it on principle..

 

[DarkAngel]

I was able to get great price on used Chailly/Decca boxset so I placed an order at Amazon.

I previously had individual CDs of Chailly Bruckner 7 & 8 and they seemed good enough to warrant purchase of boxset......I do not expect a serious challenge for Jochum or Karajan complete sets, but always looking for a good bargain and some new insights

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Facade19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Got the Karajan 4th with the Berliners and Boulez's 8th with the Viennese. Outstanding. The brasses in the 4th are stunning and the strings in the 8th are heart melting. Momentarily, I am anticipating the arrival of my Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic set. Cannot come soon enough.

I love the brass opening to 3rd movement of Bruckner 4th, a real show stopper! Klemperer and Karajan excel here for me

I was very happy to get the Barenboim/Warner boxset, not going to replace Jochum or Karajan for me but much better than I expected........

 

[vic225]

Have anyone listened to the Bruckner 7 and 9 by Yannick Nezet-Seguin? They are pretty great and they're recording the 8th next week! They're on SACD on a Canadian Label