Does anyone collect vintage cans?
Apr 8, 2005 at 2:14 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 56

kank_39

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Hi y'all,

Just to start off, i've gotta say that i'm no audiophile nor headphile but I've just got a nitch for headphones (although it's clear that they sound better than most earphones IMO).

Anyway I'm a collector and i'm thinking of holding off my present collecting focus for the time being and starting off on a vintage headphones collecting escapade. From the looks on eBay. This hobby doesn't seem too expensive.

May i know if there's anyone who collects vintage cans? I'm into those made in the 60s and 70s, no pre-WWII ones please.
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Any advice on the things to look out for and good deals would be greatly appreciated!

BTW I'm hoping to run them through my home hifi system so I'm really looking for those in good working condition.

Thanks!
 
Apr 8, 2005 at 2:24 AM Post #2 of 56
I have a whole pile of vintage cans ranging from the 60's to the 80's that I have been collecting to eventually display around my apartment. Ebay is definately the way to go (if you didn't know that) I'd say about half of the cans I purchased are in near perfect working condition and the other half are busted and intended just for show. Man, some people would be surprised to hear how some of these vintage cans competed against current $100-200 cans. When I get home, I will go through my selection and see which vintage cans are worth picking up vs. others which aren't so good.
 
Apr 8, 2005 at 2:37 AM Post #3 of 56
Thanx a lot. I'll be looking forward to your recommendations.
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I'm thinking of scouting out the local scene before hitting ebay. Anyway from the looks on eBay, the interest for vintage cans isn't as much as for new ones, which implies better value for collectors.
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Apr 8, 2005 at 3:25 AM Post #4 of 56
I'd be interested in hearing about 60's through 80's myself (at this point I'd consider most 1980's cans just getting into the 'vintage' category). Looking forward to your responses too, as I've considered this before as a possible hobby.
 
Apr 8, 2005 at 8:14 AM Post #6 of 56
Alright, these are the cans I am going to attempt to demo. I will eventually post some pics or something, but as it stands I have had a looooong day. I have more stored at various places around Vancouver, so this isn't the final list.

Pioneer SE-405
Pioneer SE-505 (broken but definately have potential)
Sennheiser HD-414
Pioneer Se-30 (broken. look amazing but haven't ever heard them)
2 Pioneer SE-L 40
Beyerdynamic DT 440

I am using my Sennheiser 595's as a reference to all these vintage cans and I don't really need to get into my setup as this is not your normal review.
First up.
Pioneer SE-L 40. Man, these cans are are old. The outer housing of the cable looks and feels like shoelace and I would approximate these cans are from the late 60's early 70's. I have the original box and manual, but no date is mentioned. As for sound quality. They are pretty good at a lower volume.It has a pretty crisp sound to it. Similar to the 595 i guess, but with MUCH less soundstage and less attack on each note. Lacking in bass as well, but what do you expect? They are an open can compared to a lot of the other vintage Pioneers I have. Overall, if you can find a pair, I suggest you pick up a pair because they look amazing. ( I got mine for around $30 however they usually sell for more. If you are chasing SQ, you may want to skp them

Up next, the Pioneer SE-405

These are a closed can and the awesome thing about them is that they have a volume knob on the bottom of each cup. (I don't know why you'd want to turn down only 1 side, but whatever)
They sound a bit muddy but that is usually the problem with most closed cans. In terms of sound, it appears to have a pretty neutral sound. At regular listening levels, it sounds okay. But when you turn up the volume on these bad boys, they actually sound really good!
They are not too bright and as I am listening to Annie Lennox right now, I am surprised how well these perform. They are weak in the bass department, but the bass goes pretty deep so it ain't all bad.
These cans also look pretty cool. I promise I'll get some pics up, but until then you can google the model and see for yourself.
These definately sound better than the SE-L 40. These are a must-buy if you are looking to collect some vintage cans. I bought this pair for under $20


Up next is the Sennheiser HD 414. The grandfather of Sennheiser. These are the first cans Sennheiser ever made and they really revolutionized the trade. (Even Grado owners still use the pads
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) )
If you can find a pair for relatively cheap, pick them up. They are sooooo comfortable!! Now let's have a listen....
I don't know what their impedence is rated at, but my Bada is not driving them to the loud level I usually listen at. But what I can tell you is that they sound pretty good. I can see how Sennheiser progressed to the 580 when I listen to these cans. It's no 580, but it certainly isn't a Bose either. I am very happy with the sound. My dad owned this pair so it has quite a bit of sentimental value as well.
I totally suggest picking these up if you have a chance. I have seen them go for as much as $150 and as little as $20 so keep your eyes open!

And finally, I am trying the oldschool Beyerdynamic DT440. These are difficult to drive as well, so a good amp will greatly aid it. Although not as old as some (these are probably late 70's to mid 80's) they are cool because it kind of marks the reinventing of headphones in terms of design. The bass on these are the best out of all of the prior cans but until they are driven with a better amp, I will not know how good they are. Annie Lennox once again sounds great though! I am not sure they are too different from the current DT 440's except for the impedence levels. These cost me about $40 and at the price, are definately a steal in terms of sound quality. As long as you have a good amp that is.

To sum things up for potential collectors; If you are looking to display the cans only, then go cheap and buy the cans without the original box. You will save a lot of money. If you are looking to get the most out of their sound, then pay the difference and get the box they come with. This usually means they were taken much better care of.
 
Apr 9, 2005 at 12:27 PM Post #7 of 56
Thanks for the detailed description on some of your headphones anarchris. I'm now looking out for those pioneer cans on eBay now.
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Anyway do you have any idea about Sansui cans? Say SS-20 or SS-22? They're headspeakers actually with tweeters and subwoofers built-in.

BTW if you could post some pics of your collectio, it'll be cool.
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Apr 10, 2005 at 1:35 AM Post #9 of 56
Fun hobby, and there are many curiosities from the various periods over the last 35 years when suddenly a bunch of designers would get crazy ideas about headphones and there'd be a big spurt of Headphonia. Some of these sold so poorly that they'll be hard to find but worth the effort.

I'll rattle off a random list, strictly off the top of my head, based on whether they were interesting technically in some way, or perhaps based on how different they were from the standard of the '70s, the Koss Pro 4AA. You should get a pair of those just to have something to compare all the others to.


In the category of Nice Try / What Were They Thinking, there were:


ESS AMT Mark 1. That's right, a tiny Heil tweeter driven full range, heavy magnets and all, in a headphone. No bass, but fantastic treble detail. One of the grandfathers of the present-day hyperexpensive piezo-based modified-Heil-driver TakeT HR-2 and father to the Ergo AMT much beloved of HF member Duggeh (see his review).

Stanton/Pickering Isophase electrostatic. Very lightweight, not to say flimsy, and wild '50s/'60s styling. Stuck out about 6 inches from your ears in either direction. Sounded terrible (no bass, wouldn't play above normal speaking levels before tripping their breakers), but a nice try at a lightweight electrostat-- many of the time were so heavy they were impossible to wear. In fact, why not hunt down a pair of the heaviest headphones ever, the Koss ESP-6 electrostat-- has its step-up transformers built into each earcup! Smashing! Literally.

Superex ST-Pro B VI dynamic. Not much unusual except the 2-way design.. with a port! Very common in the mid '70s. Made in Yonkers, NY, near NYC.

Sharpe dynamic headphones, any model. Lousy sound, but almost anechoic isolation from surroundings with fluid-filled earpads. Not Sharp of Japan but Sharpe by Scintrex of NYC. You could use these to protect your ears while blowing your sidewalk clean, that's how much they isolated. Could you find any that still have fluid in their earpads? Doubtful. But you can inject mineral oil into old intact pads.

Pioneer SE-700, SE-500, SE-300. These used PVDF piezoelectric film and transformed electricity directly into sound. Not much bass and not very flat, but the SE-700 is one of the most beautiful headphones ever made and they're all technically fascinating because of the utter simplicity of the operating principle. Many SE-700s sadly have multiple breaks in their cables. Owned by a surprising number of Head-Fiers. The other grandfathers of the TakeT HR-2.

Wharfedale Isodynamic. More than just a nice try, this was the first isodynamic/orthodynamic on the world market, and the cheapest. And one of the best. Used flexible plastic magnets, basically upgraded refrigerator magnets (!) to power a unique swinging diaphragm. Amazing down-and-dirty essence-level engineering on a par with the original Austin Mini, IMHO. Only the British. Very inefficient and not much power handling, but with some restoration one of the best-sounding isodynamic-type headphones. Still amazing when you consider they first sold for only 20 pounds in 1972. Time has not been kind to the very-inexpensive materials used in their construction, but they're worth pursuing.

Koss Pro 4AA dynamic. When you consider that this was the mainest of the mainstream 'phones, the 4AA turns bizarre. They weighed a ton, sounded very dark and murky with a big dollop of tizz on top, made the whole side of your head sweat, and the rugged-looking coiled cord was in reality fragile. Had an aluminum (to save weight!) microphone boom anchor on the left earcup (looks like a volume control or the cap to a camp stove). But everybody seemed to own one, and radio stations used them extensively. A classic stylewise, it was a perennial in spite of itself, and for better or worse the headphone sound quality standard of its day. Every other headphone was inevitably compared to this one.


Now, a random collection of significant and listenable headphones. You may not like the way they sound, but for their day, they were special and may still sound "right" to some listeners. Not surprisingly, many are electrostats. Moving coil ("dynamic") headphones got better over the decades with help from computer modeling, advances in materials science, automated assembly and sheer dogged tinkering, but that took a lot of time and money (what you might call "futurizing", the investment of time and effort to stave off obsolescence, didn't often happen back in the '70s), so not many dynamics of the socalled vintage era reached far enough into the future performancewise to be listenable today. I've restricted the list to 'phones a casual eBayer will actually have a prayer of finding (and because of that last part, the Wharfedales, which deserve to be here, will have to stay in the first group, at least for those of us in the US).


Sennheiser HD 414 dynamic, already mentioned. Started in production in 1968 and hit its stride in the US market around 1973. The first open-back headphone I know of by anyone, and astonishingly lightweight for its day. Showed out-of-head imaging for the first time; proved you didn't need heavy closed cups to get decent bass. The runaway success of the Sony Walkman and the headphone revolution that followed would never have happened were it not for the HD 414. The first generation had a viselike, ear-crushing headband and a very fragile copper cord (replaced by a steel cord around 1975), but all parts were detachable and user-replaceable, another radical innovation for the time. 2000 ohm impedance (not a typo) allowed you to plug in to a good line-level output without loading it down. Smoother than just about any headphone of the time save the electrostats, they nonetheless had a big peak at 2kHz in their frequency response curve that would scour your ears clean at high levels (they claimed that their research showed this peak to be necessary, and subsequent models had it too). Nearly indestructible with the steel cord. You could run over them with your office chair, tear them from your head and throw them as hard as you could at a hated program director or equally stupid cement-block wall and they'd simply keep on working. Stunning. Unique. Inexpensive (at least in the early '70s). Historically significant. Kinda goofy looking. A gesamtkunstwerk.

Koss HV-1 dynamic. Koss tries to build a Sennheiser HD 414. Not bad, but it was heavier (natch), more fragile, less comfortable.

Sennheiser HD 44. Not a typo. A bizarre-looking orange stethoscopic-style headphone with tiny drivers and tiny diaphragms, showing that a dynamic driver could have some of the detail of an electrostat if you made it small and lightweight enough. Not much bass due to the loose seal, but a great "distortion sniffer" and a portent of canalbuds and IEMs to come. Rare. I mention them because nobody else ever does and they're just too significant to keep secret.

Signet (luxury division of Audio-Technica for the US market) TK33 electret electrostatic. First appeared in the late '70s. Lightest, thinnest (2 microns) diaphragm of any electret headphone (except the very obscure Toshiba HR series) due to unusual back-electret design. Not expensive on eBay and not terribly rare. Two-stage sensitivity control (probably an extra tap on the stepup transformers), useful LED level meters, smooth sound, but not a lot of bass. Very open backs. Comfortable. Very lightweight. Timeless styling. Modding potential. If only it had bass!

Sony ECR-500 electret electrostatic. Dorky looking, making it one of the most surprising headphones ever when you stop laughing at it and put it on. Amazing out-of-head imaging, perfect for binaural recordings. Actual bass (though not terribly well damped), very unusual for an electrostat of its day (1976). Cheap on US eBay but not elsewhere. Not too uncomfortable. Not as smooth or flat as the TK33 because the diaphragm is an electret 5 microns thick rather than plain Mylar but more pleasant because of the amount of bass.

[Despite what you've heard, electrets in headphones, with the reported exception of some Sennheiser Unipolars, do not lose their charge noticeably over time. It is possible to overdrive electret headphones, however, so always ask a seller if the channel balance is perfect.]

Beyer ET 1000 or ET 1000N electrostatic. From 1976. Inexpensive, stylish, fairly lightweight electrostats from a favorite HF maker. Perfectly fine but got no respect for some reason. Good imaging due to chic sintered-metal grilles on open-back cups, although not as good as the ECR-500. Decent but not Stax Lambda Pro level bass.

Stax SR-3/5/X electrostatic. The SR-X Mk3 was the best headphone Stax made before coming up with the famous Lambda design, and some still prefer its sound to the Lambda's. Top-drawer accuracy-- best headphone on the planet in its day-- but hard to collect since everyone still wants one for some reason, clunky transformer box and all. Critically-damped diaphragm makes it mercilessly revealing. The tradeoff is a restricted soundstage-- it doesn't present binaural recordings very well. The bottom octave-and-a-half of bass is weak. On the other hand it can play very, very loud and still remain utterly composed and clean. The SR-5 played second fiddle to the SR-X in the mid-'70s but is a very pleasant 'phone still enjoyed by many HFers.

The SR-X series, the SR-5 and the "New SR-3" are developments of the first version of the SR-3, which dates back to the late 1960s and which I strongly suspect is the basis for what I call the Stax Mutants: the Radio Shack Realistic HP-100, the Magnavox 1A9217, the NAD 20E and the Marantz SE-1, which go for a bit less than "real" Staxes. Good solid electrostatic sound for (usually) very little money if you shop carefully, but will not plug into Stax equipment without modification. We've just (Feb '08) discovered that Superex used an SR-3 driver in their PEP series of affordable electrostatics. Contemporary reviews rated the PEP-79 just below the mighty and mighty expensive Koss ESP/9 electrostat, the best US-made headphone for several years in the '70s.

Yamaha HP-1 Orthodynamic. Like an electrostatic but with magnetic drive. A "planar-magnetic". Not a hybrid but rather a cross between an electrostat and a dynamic. Not entirely successful as sold but in many ways outstanding for its day and with simple tinkering can be pretty darn good for today. Wonderful ergonomic design, but mechanically fragile. Related Yamahas are the YH-1, YH-100 and YHD-1. Similar, much less common but equally interesting is the Audio-Technica ATH-2.

Stax SR-30 Pro electret electrostatic. Usually goes for too much on auction sites but worth acquiring. More bass than the SR-X Mk3, but midrangey. To compensate, will take amazing amounts of bass and treble EQ without whimpering. The Pro version has a thinner (4 microns) diaphragm, more efficient but less pleasing. Will plug into even the latest Stax direct-drive amps.

That's it. Memory dump complete.

Walt Brand
 
Apr 10, 2005 at 1:59 AM Post #10 of 56
Thanks for the good read, Wualta.I'm going to keep my eyes open for some of these cans, though they will be a tough find!

And as soon as I have some free time, I will snap some pics of my cans.
 
Apr 11, 2005 at 1:30 AM Post #11 of 56
Thanx for your input wualta. That really opened up more search options on eBay for me.
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I'll be looking forward to nabbing my first vintage headphones soon and I'll post it once i get it.

Fresno Bob, so how did your pickering sound? Any good?
 
Apr 11, 2005 at 2:01 AM Post #12 of 56
I've got a pair of the old-style cabin headphones commercial airlines used to use... the ones that hooked to the physical piping that used to carry airline programming (which are now standard headphone jacks). Two plastic tubes literally carried the sound right to the ears, in stereo (no electronics used at all). I'm sure plenty of people remember these, but who else has a pair?
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Edit -- see here: http://shs82web.home.comcast.net/audio/cans.html
 
Apr 11, 2005 at 2:47 AM Post #13 of 56
I couldn't resist Just One More:

Pro30andbox.jpg


Realistic (yes, Radio Shack's ancient house brand) PRO 30. Not to be confused with the far more common Pro-30 scanner. An isodynamic type like the Yamaha and far cheaper on eBay (would you believe $10?). Probably built by Audio-Technica. Used by the two second-banana cops on Miami Vice. Doesn't sound really good until modified with felt damper pads, at which point it arguably outperforms the Yamaha.

By the way, Fresno Bob's Pickerings may also qualify, since they're one of The Headphone With A Thousand Faces-- a single driver that just about every manufacturer bought and made a headphone out of. You could have an entire collection based on that one driver.



Headphones-- once you get going, it's hard to stop.

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Apr 11, 2005 at 3:19 AM Post #14 of 56
Whatever happened to plasma headphones? I've read about the technology somewhere. Was anyone actually crazy enough to build one? A ball of burning plasma emitting ozone and IR/UV radiation into your ears might not be your cup of tea but hey... takes the cake on bizarre technology. And in theory, they should give you the best possible sound from the midrange on up.
 
Apr 11, 2005 at 3:26 AM Post #15 of 56
Here's the link to the thread about Scott's Headphone Museum. He's got an amazing collection of vintage cans!
 

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