[CalvinandHobbes2020]

Thank you for your detailed notes. I‘m currently trying a Shunyata Venom V14 with my new Pontus and so far enjoying it. But I’ll give the Supra a go too, given the 30 day return policy. Curious whether you are listening in NOS or OS?

I've been listening in OS mode as that sounds smoother, but I haven't done that much experimentation between OS and NOS modes.

Please do report back after you try the Supra power cord. I'm curious as to others impression of the Supra. The difference between the Venom V14 and the Supra was larger than I expected. I had expected that it would be a lateral move at best given the similar price of the two power cords.

 

[Powermankw]

So, I had a lot of fun this weekend. My HPs are Utopias so they are more than capable. However, it is very hard to tell differences in upgrades with them. After this weekend, I suspect it is because there is no real "space" to hear them in. I wrote that I A/B'ed Pontus with my Matrix I-pro 3, and a BS Node 2. I heard no difference. If I did, it was very minor. Then I finally got my Mercury streamer and could A/B with seperate dedicated feeds (opyical/I2S) ... Again, the difference was really minor... And the Pontus chain was significantly better... AQ Z Power cord, mercury to I2S, pontus, AQ water XLR compared to BS node thru RCAs. Both are wired network. Again if there was a difference, it was too close to say difinitively.

Well, this weekend, the wife went out of town. I hauled everything to my living room... 15x30 space vaulted ceiling... My buddy brought his B&W 705 S2 signatures over. We listened... Damn! He left them with me and I set them up true near field in a 6 foot triangle. Holy crap those speakers are incredible! Such HUGE sound from stand mount 2-ways.

The verdict... It's not even close. Night and day. In every meaningful way... Tonal balance, stage, depth, air, transperancy. I just A/B'ed chains, not individual components in the chain. After a bit, I just didn't care... I just listened to everything I had.

There was definitely a volume mismatch that I didn't try to measure away. With as much as -6db, the Pontus chain was clearly better. I would check again with pink noise which would show the Pontus at less volume than I thought. Didn't matter... Even with pontus chain lower it was much better.

I'm a little jaded after all my gear upgrades. I don't think cables make big inprovements. I don't think IS2 is significantly better. I do think the Mercury streamer is cleaner, and I do think hi-res files from the Mercury mounted internal drive is better... But even with all that, I have to conclude the biggest difference is the Pontus DAC. We heard the same difference A/B with my other DACs through identical chains with the 705s. It's so much fuller, much more weight. Bottom end is no contest at all. Texture, air, resolution. Just plain better. So now with everything else in the chain upgraded, the BS node thru RCAs.... Am radio. Seriously... 2D, flat, thin... Digital.

Now don't get me wrong... I absolutely LOVE my Utopias. My LTA Z40 made them significantly better in every way. I took out all low end boost. I just think the 705s, in a big room, with more space to work with... There is just so much more dimensional information added... It's just night and day. I was in a concert hall, a live studio, versus Utopias presenting in front of my face. Like there were a couple things, that the Utopia will clearly resolve... Except those things gained more significance, notice, because they were now presented in relation to other things clearly in space. Regardless how good the Utopias are, they still can't reproduce anything outside of a head stage... As accurate and incredible as that head stage is.

So to sum it up, my end game is complete. The most significant improvement is the LTA Z40. Nothing compares to what I've heard... Naim Atom, Matrix, Cambridge Audio, Headamp GSX... But it couldn't do what it does without the Pontus... Again, clearly better than any DAC I have had. The Mercury streamer is icing on the cake... No DSP voodoo, no USB corrections... Straight I2S to the Pontus, with a comparable connection chain... Equals pure magic. I don't have a listening room... But 705s would easily satisfy me as endgame if I did.... After all of it, I hooked up my 707s in the same setup... They are not 705s... No way, no how... But equally phenomenal for what they are. Couldn't comprehend what small 2-ways did in such a big room... But they certainly don't have the bottom end, and they don't have that incredible tweeter. I will definitely be listening to more 2 channel in a more optimal near field in my office. 707s are 100% perfect for my use... I have a SVS micro 3000 which they needed in the living room, but I have been using it much less in the office with the LTA... Even the Pontus... When I first got it, low end was a significant improvement in quality and quantity to anything else. It's definitely been a journey... But I'm done looking. One day I might add some 805s... When the time is right... When I'm done needing to spend so much time in my office at the computer... Retirement is a few years away...

 

[Powermankw]

I've been listening in OS mode as that sounds smoother, but I haven't done that much experimentation between OS and NOS modes.

Please do report back after you try the Supra power cord. I'm curious as to others impression of the Supra. The difference between the Venom V14 and the Supra was larger than I expected. I had expected that it would be a lateral move at best given the similar price of the two power cords.

I have not been able to tell any difference between OS/NOS on anything. Even power cords. I fell into a AQ Y3, and picked up an AQ Z3... I ended up with all AQ cords simply because they are known standards... But I did consider Supra... I actually wired my whole car audio setup with Supra wire because they are tinned. I have zero complaints, but it's a one off so no comparison possible... 6 channel active setup with 3-way front stage and DSP.

 

[CalvinandHobbes2020]

So, I had a lot of fun this weekend. My HPs are Utopias so they are more than capable. However, it is very hard to tell differences in upgrades with them. After this weekend, I suspect it is because there is no real "space" to hear them in. I wrote that I A/B'ed Pontus with my Matrix I-pro 3, and a BS Node 2. I heard no difference. If I did, it was very minor. Then I finally got my Mercury streamer and could A/B with seperate dedicated feeds (opyical/I2S) ... Again, the difference was really minor... And the Pontus chain was significantly better... AQ Z Power cord, mercury to I2S, pontus, AQ water XLR compared to BS node thru RCAs. Both are wired network. Again if there was a difference, it was too close to say difinitively.

Well, this weekend, the wife went out of town. I hauled everything to my living room... 15x30 space vaulted ceiling... My buddy brought his B&W 705 S2 signatures over. We listened... Damn! He left them with me and I set them up true near field in a 6 foot triangle. Holy crap those speakers are incredible! Such HUGE sound from stand mount 2-ways.

The verdict... It's not even close. Night and day. In every meaningful way... Tonal balance, stage, depth, air, transperancy. I just A/B'ed chains, not individual components in the chain. After a bit, I just didn't care... I just listened to everything I had.

There was definitely a volume mismatch that I didn't try to measure away. With as much as -6db, the Pontus chain was clearly better. I would check again with pink noise which would show the Pontus at less volume than I thought. Didn't matter... Even with pontus chain lower it was much better.

I'm a little jaded after all my gear upgrades. I don't think cables make big inprovements. I don't think IS2 is significantly better. I do think the Mercury streamer is cleaner, and I do think hi-res files from the Mercury mounted internal drive is better... But even with all that, I have to conclude the biggest difference is the Pontus DAC. We heard the same difference A/B with my other DACs through identical chains with the 705s. It's so much fuller, much more weight. Bottom end is no contest at all. Texture, air, resolution. Just plain better. So now with everything else in the chain upgraded, the BS node thru RCAs.... Am radio. Seriously... 2D, flat, thin... Digital.

Now don't get me wrong... I absolutely LOVE my Utopias. My LTA Z40 made them significantly better in every way. I took out all low end boost. I just think the 705s, in a big room, with more space to work with... There is just so much more dimensional information added... It's just night and day. I was in a concert hall, a live studio, versus Utopias presenting in front of my face. Like there were a couple things, that the Utopia will clearly resolve... Except those things gained more significance, notice, because they were now presented in relation to other things clearly in space. Regardless how good the Utopias are, they still can't reproduce anything outside of a head stage... As accurate and incredible as that head stage is.

So to sum it up, my end game is complete. The most significant improvement is the LTA Z40. Nothing compares to what I've heard... Naim Atom, Matrix, Cambridge Audio, Headamp GSX... But it couldn't do what it does without the Pontus... Again, clearly better than any DAC I have had. The Mercury streamer is icing on the cake... No DSP voodoo, no USB corrections... Straight I2S to the Pontus, with a comparable connection chain... Equals pure magic. I don't have a listening room... But 705s would easily satisfy me as endgame if I did.... After all of it, I hooked up my 707s in the same setup... They are not 705s... No way, no how... But equally phenomenal for what they are. Couldn't comprehend what small 2-ways did in such a big room... But they certainly don't have the bottom end, and they don't have that incredible tweeter. I will definitely be listening to more 2 channel in a more optimal near field in my office. 707s are 100% perfect for my use... I have a SVS micro 3000 which they needed in the living room, but I have been using it much less in the office with the LTA... Even the Pontus... When I first got it, low end was a significant improvement in quality and quantity to anything else. It's definitely been a journey... But I'm done looking. One day I might add some 805s... When the time is right... When I'm done needing to spend so much time in my office at the computer... Retirement is a few years away...

A lot of the sound quality improvement that I’ve heard with the Pontus is in its ability to communicate spatial cues and the “air” around voices and instruments. I’ve found this is easier to hear with speakers than with headphones.

Congratulations on getting your system to this place!

 

[msing539]

So... I don't want to come off as a madman (again).

There's a YT video that suggests slacking the screws and rings on the RCA and XLR jacks in the back of the Pontus. The rationale is that they're directly connected to the PCB (which they are), and the pressure from overtightened screws causes resonance in the PCB which negatively impacts the sonic performance.



Has this been discussed?

 

[kramos]

I've been listening in OS mode as that sounds smoother, but I haven't done that much experimentation between OS and NOS modes.

Please do report back after you try the Supra power cord. I'm curious as to others impression of the Supra. The difference between the Venom V14 and the Supra was larger than I expected. I had expected that it would be a lateral move at best given the similar price of the two power cords.

I certainly will. As for NOS/OS, I’ve been listening more, and right now preferring NOS. With the Ares, OS/slow was by far the better choice for me, but with the Pontus, NOS is succeeding more in conveying emotion, in both instruments and vocals. If there’s a diminution in soundstage, I feel like the extra emotional heft is making up for it.

 

[CalvinandHobbes2020]

So... I don't want to come off as a madman (again).

There's a YT video that suggests slacking the screws and rings on the RCA and XLR jacks in the back of the Pontus. The rationale is that they're directly connected to the PCB (which they are), and the pressure from overtightened screws causes resonance in the PCB which negatively impacts the sonic performance.



Has this been discussed?

Apparently the reason is something to do with the amount of PCB resonance affecting the amount of EMI generated. This was discussed in one episode of this podcast. I don't think it was this episode, but this is one of their episodes that talks about the effect of RFI on digital sound quality: https://the-hifi-podcast-with-darre...m/episodes/radio-frequency-the-800mhz-gorilla

Maybe this episode? https://the-hifi-podcast-with-darre...odes/exploring-the-ins-and-outs-of-pcb-design

With 100% transparency, I haven't tried this. I don't know if this does anything at all. I am just the messenger of what I have heard.

Darren, one of the co-hosts of this podcast, is an electrical engineer that worked in EMI compliance for B&W speakers as his first job out of school. He now does analog design of amplifiers for PS Audio.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I have not been able to tell any difference between OS/NOS on anything. Even power cords. I fell into a AQ Y3, and picked up an AQ Z3... I ended up with all AQ cords simply because they are known standards... But I did consider Supra... I actually wired my whole car audio setup with Supra wire because they are tinned. I have zero complaints, but it's a one off so no comparison possible... 6 channel active setup with 3-way front stage and DSP.

Try solo piano or cello, both of those are a good test of digital anything. For some reason, if anything is out of whack, you'll hear it immediately. So, also good for comparing various modes. On a busy album I'm not sure I hear a difference between NOS and OS8 (I have Audio-gd gear) since there is so much going on, except maybe the overall flavor changes. But flipping through a few times one day on various albums I got the sense I preferred NOS and stayed with it.

So... I don't want to come off as a madman (again).

There's a YT video that suggests slacking the screws and rings on the RCA and XLR jacks in the back of the Pontus. The rationale is that they're directly connected to the PCB (which they are), and the pressure from overtightened screws causes resonance in the PCB which negatively impacts the sonic performance.



Has this been discussed?

I really hate panel-mount jacks. This should be a felony- worldwide.

 

[msing539]

Apparently the reason is something to do with the amount of PCB resonance affecting the amount of EMI generated. This was discussed in one episode of this podcast. I don't think it was this episode, but this is one of their episodes that talks about the effect of RFI on digital sound quality: https://the-hifi-podcast-with-darre...m/episodes/radio-frequency-the-800mhz-gorilla

Maybe this episode? https://the-hifi-podcast-with-darre...odes/exploring-the-ins-and-outs-of-pcb-design

With 100% transparency, I haven't tried this. I don't know if this does anything at all. I am just the messenger of what I have heard.

Darren, one of the co-hosts of this podcast, is an electrical engineer that worked in EMI compliance for B&W speakers as his first job out of school. He now does analog design of amplifiers for PS Audio.

So... I tried it. Since it's non-invasive and shouldn't impact the warranty. Torx T-10 and I used a socket for the rings, 16 or 17mm as I didn't want to scratch the chassis with an open ended wrench. They were tight, so maybe there is some merit to letting the PCB be freeeeee.

Improvement to sound? Maybe on the depth of soundstage. Impossible to A-B this one since I disconnected everything to tweaker.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

So... I tried it. Since it's non-invasive and shouldn't impact the warranty. Torx T-10 and I used a socket for the rings, 16 or 17mm as I didn't want to scratch the chassis with an open ended wrench. They were tight, so maybe there is some merit to letting the PCB be freeeeee.

Improvement to sound? Maybe on the depth of soundstage. Impossible to A-B this one since I disconnected everything to tweaker.

So one trick is to wrap the wrench jaws with electrical tape.

 

[msing539]

So one trick is to wrap the wrench jaws with electrical tape.

But then they'd get sticky

 

[gimmeheadroom]

But then they'd get sticky

So wash it off

Anyway, this is standard practice. If you can, tape the parts. If you can't tape the parts, tape the wrench.

 

[ColSaulTigh]

So wash it off

Anyway, this is standard practice. If you can, tape the parts. If you can't tape the parts, tape the wrench.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.

 

[Powermankw]

Try solo piano or cello, both of those are a good test of digital anything. For some reason, if anything is out of whack, you'll hear it immediately. So, also good for comparing various modes. On a busy album I'm not sure I hear a difference between NOS and OS8 (I have Audio-gd gear) since there is so much going on, except maybe the overall flavor changes. But flipping through a few times one day on various albums I got the sense I preferred NOS and stayed with it.



I really hate panel-mount jacks. This should be a felony- worldwide.

OK, I will. This isn't a big deal to me... But with NOS not really being NOS, I don't really know why OS is supposed to. I tend to switch, I've left each on for a long time... But I'll get specific. The filter I don't really care about. It's on fast which is fine by me.... Now if someone could explain what phase is supposed to do... Ya, I know what it is, no clue what it does in the Pontus.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

OK, I will. This isn't a big deal to me... But with NOS not really being NOS, I don't really know why OS is supposed to. I tend to switch, I've left each on for a long time... But I'll get specific. The filter I don't really care about. It's on fast which is fine by me.... Now if someone could explain what phase is supposed to do... Ya, I know what it is, no clue what it does in the Pontus.

Yeah, I read a comment that Denafrips NOS is not. I don't know the details. On the Audio-gd DACs it is, though.