Chord Hugo
Aug 23, 2014 at 10:20 PM Post #7,801 of 15,694
Have you read that people. leave the HUGO on? it seems to sound better instead of us8ng it cold. Maybe that's one of your issues?

 
I like the fact that you were specific in saying 'one of'  :D
 
@hyklief, you seem to assume that you're the first to vacillate over gear - far from it, and it's one of the reasons I believe there is still a market for horrendously expensive tonearms, cartridges and the like. It's so easy to 'self-medicate' with more gear when I suspect we might be better off ignoring our music collection completely for a day or two - watch a movie, go for a walk, play a game of (last resort) do some work - whatever gets you through a temporary slump - but whatever you do dont walk into a brick-and-mortar store or go online with that credit card in your hand. One day very soon I hope to actually start practicing that which I preach  :wink:
 
Aug 23, 2014 at 10:46 PM Post #7,802 of 15,694
not sure your other experiences with IEM/HP, and not sure your budget, but if you prefer the iphone4s headphone out over the odac+o2 (I'm guessing you find it too sibilance and not enough bass?), you may experience more bang-for-your-buck by spending the Hugo money for another headphone or IEM first. Something like a JH13pro, tralucent 1plus2, 1964ears V8/V6 stage, Unique Melody Mentor comes to mind.

The Hugo will still be a big step up from O2+ODAC but imo headphones/iem will be a more substantial upgrade.


I've only had a few lower-end IEMs (~$100) so the IE800s were my big jump into high-end IEMs. I like the sound but the tips are endlessly frustrating as I love to walk whilst listening to music and they jump out of my ears at any opportunity.
I like warm, bright and bassy music so at the moment I'm tossing up between Tralucent 1plus2 or Unique Melody Mentor.
As I've been burnt by universal fit IEMs before, do you think that going for custom fits would be a better option? I notice that the Tralucents do offer a wider range of tips so this may not be an issue.
 
Thanks
 
Aug 23, 2014 at 11:16 PM Post #7,803 of 15,694
I've only had a few lower-end IEMs (~$100) so the IE800s were my big jump into high-end IEMs. I like the sound but the tips are endlessly frustrating as I love to walk whilst listening to music and they jump out of my ears at any opportunity.
I like warm, bright and bassy music so at the moment I'm tossing up between Tralucent 1plus2 or Unique Melody Mentor.
As I've been burnt by universal fit IEMs before, do you think that going for custom fits would be a better option? I notice that the Tralucents do offer a wider range of tips so this may not be an issue.

Thanks


Let's take our IEM talks to PM or one of the other threads. But based on your progression, it won't be long to see you joining the Hugo club soon :)
 
Aug 24, 2014 at 1:13 PM Post #7,807 of 15,694
So far, the reasons for not using an external amp with Hugo focus on lower distortion with the Hugo amp.
This sounds like the same arguments for passive preamps (or for using solid state rather than tubes).
 
I personally tried passive preamps like Placettes and others, and each time while I sensed the clarity and tightness, it just sounded very uncompelling and flat, like something was missing, and I really did not like it at all. 
 
I mean, this argument for the lowest measured distortion goes back 50+ years to Julian Hirsch and Consumer Reports, and this is the longest controversy in audio history, and is by no means the last word on it. You really can't measure amplification quality on distortion alone.
 
For that matter, even what I hear as the supreme goodness of the Hugo DAC processing is not simply something that can be proved by measurements alone, especially its awesome sound with plain old Redbook CD. The miracle is in the listening, not the charts and graphs. I'm sure other DAC manufacturers could show theoretically superior DAC measurements, but the Chord certainly sounds better to a huge number of people in this thread. And it's the same issue with amps.
 
And while good solid state really draws me in (I love my Rudistor RP010B for headphones and also at shows love high end solid state gear like Dartzeel and MBL for speakers),
I find some tubes in the chain (especially a preamp) gets you really fine sound and puts something special in the mix at a much lower cost. Some like tubes, some like solid state, and saying one is categorically better due to measurements is just not a valid thing to say.
 
Aug 24, 2014 at 2:52 PM Post #7,808 of 15,694
...I find some tubes in the chain (especially a preamp) gets you really fine sound and puts something special in the mix at a much lower cost. Some like tubes, some like solid state, and saying one is categorically better due to measurements is just not a valid thing to say.


Agree. Sometimes, with my TH-900, I prefer my HUGO feeding my Tube based Portable Amp TU-05 rather than HUGO direct. :)
 
Aug 24, 2014 at 3:35 PM Post #7,810 of 15,694
What's the power output of the Hugo? I'm using the HE-560 at peach to dark green volume levels depending on how quiet the music is.

Also what's the line-out voltage? Someone asked to see how the Hugo/Objective 2 combo sounds, and I want to make sure I'm not damaging anything.
 
Aug 24, 2014 at 3:46 PM Post #7,811 of 15,694
All Rob said was that an external amp adds colouration. Saying you like Hugo + tube amp only affirms that. There is no disagreement going on.


Yes, this is why my post start by " agree " : I agree :)
 
Aug 24, 2014 at 3:57 PM Post #7,812 of 15,694
There are plenty of distortions that have sonic consequences but are below the current ability to measure. So you can have amp A with 0.1% THD being more transparent than amp B with 0.01% THD as other distortions are subjectively more important. For example, you will never measure problems with interconnect cables, but you can hear the effect of changing interconnect cables. So I am not saying that just because something measures better than something else does not mean it will sound better. But, if you reduce measurable distortion, with every other effect not changing, you will get an improvement in SQ. Measurements are very important, as they tell you what is wrong objectively.
 
Now if you need more power, then add another amp, no argument from me here; but by adding an extra amp when you do not need more power, then you will degrade transparency - you are using colourations to suit your taste. Now if you prefer to add some softness to the sound, by adding some 2nd harmonic distortion say, then that's fine, whatever suits you - but it's not what I try to do. my journey over the last 35 years is to try to understand all distortions (not just THD but all changes to the original), and to engineer a solution to these distortions to make them as small as possible, so that the device is as transparent as possible. Why do I do that? Because I believe that is the way to make something musical, and musicality - that is enjoying music - is what I think it is all about.
 
So why would transparency make it more musical? Principally two reasons - variation, and brain strain. Now variation - the ability to hear contrasting dynamic, rhythm, timbre, sound stage and separate instruments is crucial to musicality. Going back to the addition of softness by adding 2nd harmonic would mean that everything always sounds soft, so you lose out in variations, which then impacts musicality. Now brain strain (I don't mean listening fatigue here) is about how easy the brain separates sound out into the illusion of instruments occupying a tangible space. Now the brain does an incredible job of separating sounds out into discrete entities, and does this using some kind of processing; how, science does not understand. But adding audible distortion will affect the brains ability to process the sound, so it becomes harder for the brain to make sense of the sound. Now if the brain is straining, then the brain is working on trying to make sense of the sound, rather than enjoying the music; plus you get long term listening fatigue as the brain is constantly working on trying to separate individual sounds out that have been corrupted by distortion.
 
So what does one do if a HP is too bright? My advice is not to add distortion via an extra amp, but to either replace the HP, or use some gentle EQ, or try other cables (that's a minefield). But at the end of the day, whatever makes you enjoy music more is what is important.
 
Rob          
 
Aug 24, 2014 at 4:13 PM Post #7,813 of 15,694
Those of you who own the objective 2 amp please try to pair Hugo with it and report back if you can.

This is kind of a late reply. XD

Noble Audio is graciously letting people in Seattle give their lineup a try with the Hugo. I own the Objective DAC and Objective 2, and the Geek Out (though it's in Light Harmonic's hands at the moment since I thought my unit was defective; I think I'll get it back in time). I can do a comparison with the three.

I think you're better off with just the Hugo by itself. The O2 adds grain to the treble and the instrument separation seems more blurred, which are two of the biggest strengths of the Hugo in terms of sound to me.


Someone here posted that they think the line-out voltage is 2.0 V, so it should be fine for most headphone amplifiers.
 
Aug 24, 2014 at 4:38 PM Post #7,814 of 15,694
  There are plenty of distortions that have sonic consequences but are below the current ability to measure. So you can have amp A with 0.1% THD being more transparent than amp B with 0.01% THD as other distortions are subjectively more important. For example, you will never measure problems with interconnect cables, but you can hear the effect of changing interconnect cables. So I am not saying that just because something measures better than something else does not mean it will sound better. But, if you reduce measurable distortion, with every other effect not changing, you will get an improvement in SQ. Measurements are very important, as they tell you what is wrong objectively.
 
Now if you need more power, then add another amp, no argument from me here; but by adding an extra amp when you do not need more power, then you will degrade transparency - you are using colourations to suit your taste. Now if you prefer to add some softness to the sound, by adding some 2nd harmonic distortion say, then that's fine, whatever suits you - but it's not what I try to do. my journey over the last 35 years is to try to understand all distortions (not just THD but all changes to the original), and to engineer a solution to these distortions to make them as small as possible, so that the device is as transparent as possible. Why do I do that? Because I believe that is the way to make something musical, and musicality - that is enjoying music - is what I think it is all about.
 
So why would transparency make it more musical? Principally two reasons - variation, and brain strain. Now variation - the ability to hear contrasting dynamic, rhythm, timbre, sound stage and separate instruments is crucial to musicality. Going back to the addition of softness by adding 2nd harmonic would mean that everything always sounds soft, so you lose out in variations, which then impacts musicality. Now brain strain (I don't mean listening fatigue here) is about how easy the brain separates sound out into the illusion of instruments occupying a tangible space. Now the brain does an incredible job of separating sounds out into discrete entities, and does this using some kind of processing; how, science does not understand. But adding audible distortion will affect the brains ability to process the sound, so it becomes harder for the brain to make sense of the sound. Now if the brain is straining, then the brain is working on trying to make sense of the sound, rather than enjoying the music; plus you get long term listening fatigue as the brain is constantly working on trying to separate individual sounds out that have been corrupted by distortion.
 
So what does one do if a HP is too bright? My advice is not to add distortion via an extra amp, but to either replace the HP, or use some gentle EQ, or try other cables (that's a minefield). But at the end of the day, whatever makes you enjoy music more is what is important.
 
Rob          

dear rob which headphone so u like with the hugo, i know u might not like to tell but i am so curious which full size headphone is best to your personal liking with the hugo. 
 
Aug 24, 2014 at 11:54 PM Post #7,815 of 15,694
LH Labs Geekout DAC got 4 of 5 stars from its price range from whathifi. Hugo got 5 of 5 stars from its price range from the same reviewer.. to read someone say hugo is only slightly better than geekout is a big What...

Does anyone know any good two channel amp to drive 6ohm speakers at about 150 wpc for undr 1000.00 paired with Hugo?

Help needed.
 

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