[x RELIC x]

I agree with you on the rest, but the first part really looks like normal electromagnetic induction, eddy current in the aluminum foils, the same effect as in induction cooker pans, reacting with the magnetic field.

Ah, apologies. I glossed over the induction and focused on the BA comment as that uses moving pieces in the armature to move the air.

Back to the DAVE, I'd be curious to know from romaz if such an effect from these magnetic devices have more/less of an effect with less capabable gear than the DAVE.

 

[romaz]

  What does the High Fidelity's prototype headphone device do to the sound quality? 

It magnetizes the signal.  As audiophiles, we are taught to do everything we can to demagnetize our systems because EMI is considered a bad thing and we want to do everything we can not to attract it.  You can even buy CDs with demagnetizing tracks on them.  With High Fidelity's magnetic conduction technology, he is trying to do the opposite.  If you watch his video, he will show how a magnetic force can so easily influence the electron stream of a cathode ray tube.  If you can use magnets to focus the electron stream to the core of his conductor and away from the edges, then you do away with skin effects that can impact timing and phase.  The more powerful the magnets, the greater the potential influence on things like denseness and purity of the signal and electron transmission speed and so stripping away RF is not the only thing it is doing.  To be honest, I'm not sure even Rick fully understands all that this technology is doing because the benefits are more than you would expect.  Often, signal and power chords are known to provide either dense and colorful tonal body or else speed, finesse and resolution but not both but this technology seems to be the exception because that's exactly what you get.  If I had to name the one key virtue of this technology, however, it is "clarity."  As I have compared them against traditional cables, there just isn't any comparison.
 
He has modified his DAC and other audio gear with his technology and he has told me there has been an improvement each time.  I showed him the schematics of the DAVE that are on the internet and unfortunately, the DAVE doesn't have enough "real estate" within to apply magnets and so I have tried to apply it before and after.
 
Is it voodoo or snake oil?  It sure sounded like it to me but I suggest you demo his inexpensive RCA adapters from thecableco.com and see for yourself.  

 

[bigfatpaulie]

You are referring to these, correct? 

 

[romaz]

 
Roy, did you really mean to say that Rick Schultz, maker of uber high end magnetic cables, was "well grounded"? LOL

Pun intended, Esau 

.  Call up the number on the company's website and there's a fair chance he'll answer.  He will have a very normal conversation with you, he's not the typical eccentric "mad scientist" stereotype and there's no hard sell.  Either his products work for you or they don't.  
 
There's a blog on Audiogon's forum on High Fidelity Cables and has been running since 2012.  It is the longest running blog in Audiogon's history and you will read about the numerous stories of how this technology has transformed the systems of so many others.

  Seriously, though with HFC products you're talking about going further and further down the rabbit hole. 
 
If you're committed with going the HFC route then the obvious smart solution is to scour places like Audiogon and the Canuck Market for 2nd hand HFC products at perhaps half the asking price of brand new.
 
I've read where others have said that you're better off never hearing HFC products if you can't afford them. If this is true(and I believe there is probably a large measure of truth spoken there) then it's comforting to know that one is highly unlikely to accidentally run into another HFC dealer or owner in most parts of the world so you will most likely remain very satisfied with whatever level of HFC investment you have made in your system.
 
For myself, I have a pair of MC-0.5's on order, plus the DHC Complement cable as well. If the headphone device prototype comes even close to the target selling price then I will undoubtedly pick that up as well. Beyond that it's wait and see.
 
Esau

I know what you're saying and this one is potentially a very deep and expensive rabbit hole so I have to be careful but it is amazing how much difference there is as you go up the line.  If you can stomach the price, I have not found the law of diminishing returns to apply with some of their gear.  With many things I've experimented with on the DAVE, the difference frequently isn't there or it's very small.  When I first auditioned the DAVE at my home last November, the dealer sent me home with a $10,000 Nordost Odin power cable hoping I would buy it.  I couldn't tell much difference at all and so my brain has been programmed to have low expectations about stuff like this and generally, that has been what I have found.  Some differences are very meaningful (like the DHC cables and even the microRendu) but they're not giant chasms of difference.  What I will say, however, is that my system now sounds so highly resolved that I believe I can detect smaller differences with things like the microRendu than I could have otherwise.
 
At my core, I consider myself a value shopper even though this is not a value hobby and so I have indeed been scouring the "second-hand sites" and have found some good values, none better than my most recent purchase.  For those wishing to introduce themselves to this technology, I would do as you have done with trying out a pair of MC-0.5s that places like thecableco.com will allow you to try for minimal obligation.  If you have poor quality AC, you should notice an immediate difference but even if it takes a day or two, the difference should be unmistakeable.  I have found their RCA adapters and this headphone prototype I am trying out to have made the most immediate impact in my system, however.  If I had to limit myself to only one of their products without breaking the bank, either their RCA adapters or this headphone device would be it, depending on whether my headphone system or my 2-channel system was more important.

 

[romaz]

Reminds me of this:



Literally looks like a tin-foil-hat solution...

I agree, there's more snake oil out there than not and so it generally has to make some sense to me on a scientific level for me to try it.  This one did not but the demo at AXPONA was pretty eye opening.

 

[romaz]

 
It's actually the $21,000 pricetag that I'm taking issue with. It irks me that some people in the mainstream of the industry, and some on the fringes of the industry, take liberties with a small minority of well-heeled individuals.

I don't disagree with you.  This kind of price for a mains cable seems absurd on face value and it's unlikely many are sold except to the most well-heeled or fanatical audiophiles.  Having inquired into why such a high price, the response was that the raw ingredients to make this product (especially the rare earth magnets that are used) and the labor involved in their manufacture (they are machined and hand-assembled in Texas) is not cheap and because the demand for a product like this is probably not high, I'm sure they have to factor in a reasonable margin to make it worthwhile to build.  If you've read their ad, this particular model was not designed for the consumer but for a professional organization (like a DAC or amp manufacturer).  Regardless, it is generally the market that dictates what is excessive and what is viable and for a company that is only a few years old, Rick told me his company has doubled in sales every year since he opened shop.
 
The problem that we each face as DAVE owners is that this DAC overachieves at the price it sells for and so in a sense, we have each bought into a level of gear that very few of us deserve to be in (myself included).  Most of us that own one probably feel this DAC can compete with anything and everything including the $110,000 DCS Vivaldi quad stack and yet most that buy the DCS stack accept that the cost of ownership isn't actually $110,000 because once you buy the loom of Transparent cables that are felt to be requisite for this setup, you're actually paying closer to $200,000.  For this kind of a buyer, paying this much for cables makes sense if it brings out the best in their digital front end and very often, the buyer of a DCS system won't consider one without the other.  Is the DAVE deserving of less?  
 
Fortunately for us, the DAVE doesn't require exotic cabling to sound exceptional but what I am finding is that it can and does make a difference.  As has been said, if you are completely happy with your DAVE and that could easily apply to all, it might be wiser to stop while you're ahead.  In some ways, I wish I never heard this stuff.

 

[romaz]

   
I didn't mean to ridicule the magnetic cable approach in any way, quite the opposite – I'm seriously interested –, and I hope Roy can give some substantial info on the matter.
 
I'm not sure, but I think at least the first part of the video doesn't show something extraordinary, just normal electromagnetic induction. Every dynamic transducer consists of a magnet and a coil. Maybe the demonstrated effect is similar to the function of balanced armatures or Grado's moving-iron pickups.

Yes, the video is purposely simplistic for those like myself where this concept is foreign.  The point of it is to show that the claim to be able to control electrons with a magnet is not merely conjecture since many will argue that you can't even see an electron. 

 

[romaz]

 
Wow, target price of $300 for the headphone device -- I'm pleasantly surprised that it might be in this neighborhood. Looking forward to seeing what Mr. Schultz does with this. Interesting also that you find that the RCA adapters result in an improvement when added to HFC's own interconnects. This might be another good bang for the buck. Worth a try, at the very least. Thanks Roy, as always, for your faithful reporting.  

Yes, $300 is the goal for this entry level device.  There will be higher levels for those willing to pay but the unit I am testing will have this lower target price.  

 

[romaz]

Back to the DAVE, I'd be curious to know from @romaz if such an effect from these magnetic devices have more/less of an effect with less capabable gear than the DAVE.

On each of my headphones, there is a difference with his prototype headphone device.  As far as other gear, I can't say personally but Rick tells me his son told him the difference was significant on a pair of stock ear buds with an iPhone which is what prompted him to move forward with the idea.

 

[x RELIC x]

On each of my headphones, there is a difference with his prototype headphone device.  As far as other gear, I can't say personally but Rick tells me his son told him the difference was significant on a pair of stock ear buds with an iPhone which is what prompted him to move forward with the idea.

So reportedly it's a larger effect than a minor perceived difference that may be only available to a piece of kit like the DAVE. Interesting.

 

[romaz]

  You are referring to these, correct? 

Yes, that's the MC-0.5 that you would plug into an unused receptacle on your distribution block.  A single one didn't make an immediate difference in my system and so if this is what I had to gauge the impact of this magnetic technology, I probably wouldn't have gone further with their products. 

 

[romaz]

So reportedly it's a larger effect than a minor perceived different that may be only available to a piece of kit like the DAVE. Interesting.

Yes, I would say the effect is not minor at all.

 

[x RELIC x]

Yes, the video is purposely simplistic for those like myself where this concept is foreign.  The point of it is to show that the claim to be able to control electrons with a magnet is not merely conjecture since many will argue that you can't even see an electron. 

Actually the point of the video is more about the geometry of the coil having an effect than it's audio related use. There are many strange results that he's reported and demonstrated. I just linked it as an example of how traditional thinking isn't the only way to get things done effectively, as we all know from Rob's approach with his DACs. I thought it was pertinent to the cable add-on being discussed and the fact that it may not make sense yet your reports say otherwise. However, that coil and its uses is a much more involved conversation that I'll bow out of in the DAVE thread.

 

[JaZZ]

Reducing the skin effect with magnets in the described way looks passably plausible to me, although I don't really understand the mechanism behind it. But as it looks like, it isn't a practical method for the normal end user, the more so if you want to take it to the extreme. I'm also thinking of the massive magnetic fields pervading the living or listening rooms, with unknown physical long-term consequences (this although DC fields are generally considered relatively harmless). And then there's the financial factor – and the risk of wanting more and more of the good effect.

 
If I knew more about the mechanism and the geometric arrangement necessary for the desired effect, I would be inclined to try it myself (several strong neodymium magnets are just waiting in a closet to make themselves useful). However, most likely I will stay with a well-tried cable concept promising to fight the skin effect by its geometry for my next headphone cables: ultra-thin magnet wires (diameter 0.04 mm), 250-500 of them per conductor. I suspect the beneficial effect won't match the magnetic approach, instead it's a more practical and much cheaper solution.
 
Actually I'm very happy with the sound of my headphones driven by DAVE's headphone out. But only with this device in the signal chain:
 

 
Yes, it's what you already might have guessed: a ¹/₈"-to-¹/₄" adapter sticking in a ¹/₄"-to-¹/₈" adapter. Thus a chunk of metal. Something that high-end manufacturers such as WBT («Nextgen») try to avoid in their connectors.
 
With the HE1000 I've had problems with the somewhat stringent treble since the beginning. The Silver Dragon cured it to some degree, but from the HD 800 (which it served before) I know that it carries some of this trait in itself. So it's not something I only discovered with DAVE. But the double-adapter array cured it completely the first time I tried it. I suspected that it was just a smearing effect, making the sound smoother as in more forgiving. In the meantime I tried slightly deviating EQ settings which seemed to make it obsolete – just to discover that it still represents the icing on the cake.
 
On saturday the left channel of the HD 800 (stock) cable broke. So I had to resort to the unloved DHC Clone (unloved because of its distinct dullness and lack of treble detail). So acting out of sheer necessity I adjusted the treble accordingly, according to the trial-and error method, which improved the sound to an unexpected level. But only with the double-adapter thing in the signal chain it really blossomed. And it doesn't sound like smeared at all, much rather like considerably increased resolution, and much more natural, too.
 
So I'm ready to believe that the metal chunk at the headphone output has some sort of corrective or compensational or even preventive effect – maybe in view of line reflections. Some other audio mystery.

 

 

[Articnoise]

 

 

Roy I would be interested to get your impression on the SQ difference with the Magnetic RCA Adapters between something like the Oppo and a more “source depending” DAC than the DAVE, when using SPDIF. Well with the DAVE too 

 

I see that all their products are single ended. Is it because their tech is not suited for balanced or is it other reasons behind it?