[romaz]

 
It is sort of dismaying. How would you compare it to the $2k HFC power cord, which you said earlier was a significant improvement over other cords by Shunyata and Audience? And are you using the Reference Helix with the $2800 HFC power conditioner? Just trying to get a sense of bang for the buck with HFC power products.

Jon, I would say the Helix is simply not even close to anything I have heard, whether it be the $2k HFC CT-1 and especially against any other product that uses more conventional technology.  I will repurpose the CT-1 to power my Paul Hynes supply.  Yes, I am using the Helix with the HFC power conditioner and having compared with and without, I have found the benefits to be additive.  I have also installed 3 MC-0.5s (plugged into the conditioner) and while the difference is nowhere as great, their contribution is evident as well.  As for bang for the buck, this headphone device prototype (target price $300?) will easily be the greatest bang for the buck.  Their RCA adapters are similarly of very high value.  Of interest, I have added the RCA adapters to their interconnects and there is further improvement.  Once again, the more magnets the better.  When you combine the impact of this magnet technology everywhere (including speaker cables), there are simply no words to describe the impact.

 

[romaz]

 
I don't know much about magnets, but I almost fear for Rick Schultz's health, and I'm not referring only to flying metal objects. It almost conjures up a mad scientist vision in my head.

Rick is a very well grounded individual from what I have gleaned.  He is a family guy and he understands what is important in life is the impression that I get.  Apparently, Sennheiser has approached him regarding interest in licensing his technology so I think it's a matter of time before this technology becomes a household name.

 

[maxh22]

  If price was no object, I cannot imagine anyone who wouldn't want this cable with their DAVE or frankly with whatever piece of audio equipment they have.  Having seen preposterously expensive mains cables for years, I used to wonder just how good a mains cable (or a set of interconnects) could be and never imagined they could ever make that much of a difference but this magnetic technology concept is different.  It's not just about clean power or a clean signal but I'm not sure I fully grasp yet all that it is doing and how it's doing it.  All I can say is I have never heard a mains cable (or a set of interconnects) do what these cables are single-handedly doing and the benefits are clearly additive.  Of course, there is the question of how good something is and what value the improvement that it brings is worth.
 
Another way I am looking at it is if Rob came out with a new improved DAVE version 2 and it sounded this much better, would I sell my current DAVE and upgrade to it?  Combined with what I am getting from High Fidelity's prototype headphone device and their interconnects, it becomes very hard to say "no" because once you hear an improvement of this magnitude, it becomes almost haunting to live with less.  I don't want to suggest this technology is improving the DAVE more than it is revealing the DAVE's true potential which is a testament to how great the DAVE really is.
 
Ultimately, there is the issue of affordability and that is often the limiting factor.  Regardless of the value something might have, we each have a line that we cannot cross or shouldn't cross and $20k for a mains cable (or even $13K) is more than I am willing to spend.  This $13k mains cable I am evaluating, however, has been offered to me by a gentleman who is having an "estate sale" because of tax problems and as it has been offered to me for 60% off MSRP, I have already agreed to move forward with it.  He also had a set if High Fidelity Ulitmate Reference interconnects he wished to part with for about 60% off MSRP, an offer I simply could not refuse.  
 
Having established that the microRendu / SonicTransporter will be my reference digital source and having almost completed my USB cable and network cable evaluation with the microRendu, once my Paul Hynes power supply comes in, I believe my incessant testing will come to an end and I will just finally enjoy what I believe will be my "end-game" setup for at least the foreseeable future (at least until my youngest son moves out to college and I start building my dream 2-channel system).

What does the High Fidelity's prototype headphone device do to the sound quality? 

 

[JaZZ]

  I have had conversations with Rick Schultz about this "Pro" version that you talk about.  He uses it in his home and says there are die-hard consumers who use it in their systems.  Rick tells me he has not yet found a saturation point where audio equipment he has tested doesn't benefit from this magnetic technology from a SQ standpoint and that the more magnets the better.  The problem is the bigger and more powerful magnets become potentially more dangerous at some point.  He told me he has a magnet he is testing in his shop that is so powerful that it will attract scissors and similar items if they're left unattended that can become flying daggers and yet these magnets result in very obvious SQ improvement even beyond his "Pro" series.  Apparently, the rare earth magnets used in his highest-end stuff and the manufacturing process involved (each has to be hand made) are costly and so there is no way to reap the benefits of this technology without having to spend a fair amount of money.

 
What exactly is the function of the magnets? I have no idea how magnets could affect the quality of electron movement in conductors, so I'm very curious to learn.

 

[esimms86]

  Rick is a very well grounded individual from what I have gleaned.  He is a family guy and he understands what is important in life is the impression that I get.  Apparently, Sennheiser has approached him regarding interest in licensing his technology so I think it's a matter of time before this technology becomes a household name.

Roy, did you really mean to say that Rick Schultz, maker of uber high end magnetic cables, was "well grounded"? LOL
 
Seriously, though with HFC products you're talking about going further and further down the rabbit hole. Obviously, we're all jealous of the  fact that you have the funds and the opportunity to get so close to HFC's top of the line. I would imagine that for the vast majority of us DAVE owners just getting enough funds together to pay for DAVE exhausted the budget for some time to come.
 
Now, looking at the HFC product line in regards to headphone listening you start out at, say, $3300 for their entry level power cable and power conditioner plus the headphone device prototype. Jumping one level up in expense you're looking at $7000 (with the prototype device presumed to represent no step up in price or quality relative to the items in the 1st tier). Go beyond that and you've spent more on magnetic devices than you've spent on DAVE.
 
If you're committed with going the HFC route then the obvious smart solution is to scour places like Audiogon and the Canuck Market for 2nd hand HFC products at perhaps half the asking price of brand new.
 
I've read where others have said that you're better off never hearing HFC products if you can't afford them. If this is true(and I believe there is probably a large measure of truth spoken there) then it's comforting to know that one is highly unlikely to accidentally run into another HFC dealer or owner in most parts of the world so you will most likely remain very satisfied with whatever level of HFC investment you have made in your system.
 
For myself, I have a pair of MC-0.5's on order, plus the DHC Complement cable as well. If the headphone device prototype comes even close to the target selling price then I will undoubtedly pick that up as well. Beyond that it's wait and see.
 
Esau

 

[x RELIC x]

What exactly is the function of the magnets? I have no idea how magnets could affect the quality of electron movement in conductors, so I'm very curious to learn. :blink:

Reminds me of this:


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL_4Pkt2vW9hTNhHoELWhyBar2aRSGrGFQ&v=oe95ykkfFH4[/VIDEO]


Literally looks like a tin-foil-hat solution, but there really are some very interesting effects using magnetism, coils, and vortex geometry. They had a previous video that demonstrated the speaker effect much more audibly, but they keep mysteriously getting their videos removed for whatever reason (ooh, conspiracy!). There are some very interesting effects they demonstrate in their other videos. Whether you buy in to it or not, my takeaway is that we don't know very much about the effects of magnetism and there is a lot to still understand. Often a lack of understanding will surely begin with ridicule. I'm not judging either way.

 

[Mython]

 

What exactly is the function of the magnets? I have no idea how magnets could affect the quality of electron movement in conductors, so I'm very curious to learn.

Reminds me of this:



Literally looks like a tin-foil-hat solution, but there really are some very interesting effects using magnetism, coils, and vortex geometry. They had a previous video that demonstrated the speaker effect much more audibly, but they keep mysteriously getting their videos removed for whatever reason (ooh, conspiracy!). There are some very interesting effects they demonstrate in their other videos. Whether you buy in to it or not, my takeaway is that we don't know very much about the effects of magnetism and there is a lot to still understand. Often a lack of understanding will surely begin with ridicule. I'm not judging either way.

 
 
I'm not really knocking the use of magnets - I like attempts to think outside conventional (AKA 'constrained') thinking, and pushing the envelope of 'accepted wisdom', much like Tesla did, with so much of his work.
 
My jovial stance about MRI, was only taking the magnetism conversation to an obviously-absurd extreme, for comic effect.
 
It's actually the $21,000 pricetag that I'm taking issue with. It irks me that some people in the mainstream of the industry, and some on the fringes of the industry, take liberties with a small minority of well-heeled individuals.
 
 
 
Interesting video, by the way. Thanks for that.

 

[Mython]

200 pages - not as fast-growing as the Mojo thread, but, considering the price of DAVE, not bad-going, and sure to accelerate, as word about DAVE gradually spreads throughout the hi-fi industry

 

[x RELIC x]

I'm not really knocking the use of magnets - I like attempts to think outside conventional (AKA 'constrained') thinking, and pushing the envelope of 'accepted wisdom', much like Tesla did, with so much of his work.

My jovial stance about MRI, was only taking the magnetism conversation to an obviously-absurd extreme, for comic effect.

It's actually the $21,000 pricetag that I'm taking issue with. It irks me that some people in the mainstream of the industry, and some on the fringes of the industry, take liberties with a small minority of well-heeled individuals.



Interesting video, by the way. Thanks for that.

My stance is this... There needs to be considerable effort taken to test and re-test, then test again, listening to differences, especially when the concrete evidence is elusive. Similar to what happened to Rob when he developed the Hugo. There were sonic benefits that he still didn't quite understand where they were coming from at the time of its release, yet they were significant differences all the same. Diving deeper with the DAVE allowed him to understand what he had done right. While I may not be a proponent of the kind if prices suggested for magnetic enhancement (slight grin on my face) I can appreciate that there must be countless hours spent testing to get to a point of marketability with these devices. Each individual of course will have to determine the value of such enhancements and whether they are willing to go down that route for perceived audible improvements.

 

[Mython]

 

[x RELIC x]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Yup. Exactly.

 

[JaZZ]

 

What exactly is the function of the magnets? I have no idea how magnets could affect the quality of electron movement in conductors, so I'm very curious to learn.

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Reminds me of this:

Literally looks like a tin-foil-hat solution, but there really are some very interesting effects using magnetism, coils, and vortex geometry. They had a previous video that demonstrated the speaker effect much more audibly, but they keep mysteriously getting their videos removed for whatever reason (ooh, conspiracy!). There are some very interesting effects they demonstrate in their other videos. Whether you buy in to it or not, my takeaway is that we don't know very much about the effects of magnetism and there is a lot to still understand. Often a lack of understanding will surely begin with ridicule. I'm not judging either way.

 
I didn't mean to ridicule the magnetic cable approach in any way, quite the opposite – I'm seriously interested –, and I hope Roy can give some substantial info on the matter.
 
I'm not sure, but I think at least the first part of the video doesn't show something extraordinary, just normal electromagnetic induction. Every dynamic transducer consists of a magnet and a coil. Maybe the demonstrated effect is similar to the function of balanced armatures or Grado's moving-iron pickups.

 

[shuttlepod]

  Jon, I would say the Helix is simply not even close to anything I have heard, whether it be the $2k HFC CT-1 and especially against any other product that uses more conventional technology.  I will repurpose the CT-1 to power my Paul Hynes supply.  Yes, I am using the Helix with the HFC power conditioner and having compared with and without and the benefits are additive.  I have also installed 3 MC-0.5s (plugged into the conditioner) and while the difference is nowhere as great, their contribution is evident as well.  As for bang for the buck, this headphone device prototype (target price $300?) will easily be the greatest bang for the buck.  Their RCA adapters are similarly of very high value.  Of interest, I have added the RCA adapters to their interconnects and there is further improvement.  Once again, the more magnets the better.  When you combine the impact of this magnet technology everywhere (including speaker cables), there are simply no words to describe the impact.

Wow, target price of $300 for the headphone device -- I'm pleasantly surprised that it might be in this neighborhood. Looking forward to seeing what Mr. Schultz does with this. Interesting also that you find that the RCA adapters result in an improvement when added to HFC's own interconnects. This might be another good bang for the buck. Worth a try, at the very least. Thanks Roy, as always, for your faithful reporting.  

 

[x RELIC x]

I didn't mean to ridicule the magnetic cable approach in any way, quite the opposite – I'm seriously interested –, and I hope Roy can give some substantial info on the matter.

I'm not sure, but I think at least the first part of the video doesn't show something extraordinary, just normal electromagnetic induction. Every dynamic transducer consists of a magnet and a coil. Maybe the demonstrated effect is similar to the function of balanced armatures or Grado's moving-iron pickups.

Oh, quite the opposite, I feel there may be a lot more to magnetism's effect than what we realize, just a hunch though, but certainly no ridicule. What you have to understand is there is no transducer moving in that video I linked (like I said, it's a poor demonstration). The earlier video I mentioned that has been removed is just a bowl sitting on the coil with the magnet in the centre, again no moving transducer, no moving parts. Although this is getting on quite a tangent to the topic of the DAVE there are some very interesting effects demonstrated recently with magnetism in a vacuum using plasma to visualize it. The results are far from what the conventional thinking of magnetic fields are under those circumstances.

 

[JaZZ]

 

I didn't mean to ridicule the magnetic cable approach in any way, quite the opposite – I'm seriously interested –, and I hope Roy can give some substantial info on the matter.

I'm not sure, but I think at least the first part of the video doesn't show something extraordinary, just normal electromagnetic induction. Every dynamic transducer consists of a magnet and a coil. Maybe the demonstrated effect is similar to the function of balanced armatures or Grado's moving-iron pickups.

Oh, quite the opposite, I feel there may be a lot more to magnetism's effect than what we realize, just a hunch though, but certainly no ridicule. What you have to understand is there is no transducer moving in that video I linked (like I said, it's a poor demonstration). The earlier video I mentioned that has been removed is just a bowl sitting on the coil with the magnet in the centre, again no moving transducer, no moving parts. Although this is getting on quite a tangent to the topic of the DAVE there are some very interesting effects demonstrated recently with magnetism in a vacuum using plasma to visualize it. The results are far from what the conventional thinking of magnetic fields are under those circumstances.

 
I agree with you on the rest, but the first part really looks like normal electromagnetic induction, eddy current in the aluminum foils, the same effect as in induction cooker pans, reacting with the magnetic field.