[JohnFerrier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSlayerZX /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...because I was afraid that, the thread that I started will be turn into another...

Spareribs is the OP.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFerrier /img/forum/go_quote.gif My mistake. I think it was JaZZ with the Zu cable (and that was sent back for repair because of a bad channel). Your Silver Dragon was sent back to be repaired for another reason. I'll admit doing listening comparisons are tricky. I think that it is too easy to be fooled. When I read other people's reviews, I don't see anything quantitative, something beyond the imagined. Fellow "cable believer" Hirsch indicates that he can not rule out that the differences aren't merely imagined. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...19#post2418819

I respect Hirsch a great deal, and his thoughts on this issue and his listening impressions IMO are worth serious consideration. That being said, I am positive the difference was not imagined in my setup.

 

[JohnFerrier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I respect Hirsch a great deal, and his thoughts on this issue and his listening impressions I think, are worth serious consideration. That being said, I am postive the difference was not imagined in my setup.

You sound 105% sure to me.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFerrier /img/forum/go_quote.gif You sound 105% sure to me.

No, I would say 90 to 95% sure.

 

[SamNOISE]

Voltron's effort is commendable: I can see the effort that was put into it. Unfortunately, he chose to conduct it in such a way as to complete negate any valid hypothesis... Had the gentleman taken the time to arrange for an assistant (wife / friend / kids), he could have conducted the process in such a way that he would not have known which cable he was listening to at any given moment.

This would have resulted in a much more valid / honest outcome and his results would have been eminently interesting. As it sits, it’s simply a document of personal bias and folklore: a complete waste of his time.

With regards to the folks here who are chaffed by the stance of those with common sense and logic in mind: please be aware that you have no more right to the forum than so called 'non-believers'. The hobby isn’t, as insinuated, all about ‘tweaking stuff and talking about the tweaks you made online’. It used to be about music and discovering more of it. This is apparently all too often drowned out in the cacophonic lurch towards ‘the next new tweak’.

At risk of sounding like a broken record: I urge all of you to immerse yourselves in unsighted auditions of whatever product or tweak you are driven towards discussing – before – you decide to sit at your keyboard and post online. Note I did not say ‘ABX / Blind / DB’, just – “Don’t look at what you are evaluating - form your opinions on what you hear, not what you see or expect”

The decidedly depressing truth is that the vast majority of posts are fabrications and wishful thinking. Some would say that honesty and integrity takes the ‘fun’ out of the hobby and negates much of what one sees in forums. On the other hand, is reading fluff which precariously balances on the thin edge of reality a truly valid option?

Andrew D.
www.cdnav.com

 

[Steve999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamNOISE /img/forum/go_quote.gif At risk of sounding like a broken record: I urge all of you to immerse yourselves in unsighted auditions of whatever product or tweak you are driven towards discussing – before – you decide to sit at your keyboard and post online. ............ The decidedly depressing truth is that the vast majority of posts are fabrications and wishful thinking. Some would say that honesty and integrity takes the ‘fun’ out of the hobby and negates much of what one sees in forums. On the other hand, is reading fluff which precariously balances on the thin edge of reality a truly valid option? Andrew D. www.cdnav.com

I don't really agree. I think the same sound will never sound exactly alike twice to the same person, for a variety of reasons. When people say they perceive a difference, they are quite often being perfectly honest.

Also, performing a valid non-sighted test with anything other than data files can be frightfully difficult. Most of us are left to studying the data out there and exercising our personal judgment as to what's valid and credible. In the vast majority of cases neither our own senses nor our own empirical testing will give reliable results. My judgment tells me that the objectivist point of view of cables is correct. However, my perceptions would tell me otherwise, and any experiment I could concoct personally would not be valid from a statistical reliability point of view. So I don't think calling people on the "believer" side of the cable debate fabricators or wishful thinkers is justified. They are in most cases honestly acting and reporting on what they are experiencing first-hand, and the subject matter that allows one to get to the bottom of the situation is really quite difficult.

However, my opinion of the people who sell expensive cables is usually not so kind. I imagine I could cut some slack for those few souls who sell them and honestly believe they improve sound quality.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamNOISE /img/forum/go_quote.gif At risk of sounding like a broken record: I urge all of you to immerse yourselves in unsighted auditions of whatever product or tweak you are driven towards discussing – before – you decide to sit at your keyboard and post online. Note I did not say ‘ABX / Blind / DB’, just – “Don’t look at what you are evaluating - form your opinions on what you hear, not what you see or expect.”

Dis is good idea, me thinks. Many us folks thunk cables sound goodly cause we eyeball nice looking stuff. Not realize should use ears to here sound. Next time me shut eyes so not trick self.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamNOISE /img/forum/go_quote.gif The decidedly depressing truth is that the vast majority of posts are fabrications and wishful thinking.

A classic example of an ipse dixit. Just classic.

 

[Listen2this1]

In my opinion here is are some good reasons to purchase moderate to high end cables.

1. A interconnect is made up with many parts, one of the most important is the ends. Without the ends the interconnect would be useless. Stock interconnects have really poor ends that once placed on a connection usually spread out and if removed will never have the same grip. Usually more expensive interconnects will have a end that is cut to have a better grip or maybe locking ends, so removing them will not have the same effect. Another side to the end is the material that it is coated in, typically gold. Very few stock interconnects are covered with any non-corosive material.

2. The other part that is at stake is all cables that are designed to maintain a 75ohm impedance. Anytime the cable is bent or twisted and if the dielectric allows the center connductor and shielding come closer or farther away from each other the 75ohm impedance is altered. This can cause some of the loss, or allow unwanted signals to enter the cable ex: 115v. All high voltage cable will allow a ring of emi to follow down the line. if this emi is allowed to follow the interconnect, and the cable is not shielded, or the end allows it to enter the chassis, you can have some audible issues.

3. Cosmetics- Lets face it, some electronics are purchased largely by their cosmetics, now not all of the cosmetics are done for no reason. The wrap that is typically found on higher end cable can offer a non-wear sheath so cables will not allow the small vibrations to deterate the outer skin of the cable, and lets face it, it can make a really cool effect on the looks.

 

[TheOnlyOne]

I like everyone else have no problem with well made cables, but I do have problems with misinformation and out and out lies to sell a product no matter what that product my be.

TheOnlyOne

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't really agree. I think the same sound will never sound exactly alike twice to the same person, for a variety of reasons.

That's why you make multiple tests and average them.

See ya
Steve

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I respect Hirsch a great deal, and his thoughts on this issue and his listening impressions IMO are worth serious consideration. That being said, I am positive the difference was not imagined in my setup.

If the differences are due to your own misperception, then perhaps you aren't the best one to say whether it's imagined or not. I think we need a note from your doctor on this.

See ya
Steve

 

[TheOnlyOne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's why you make multiple tests and average them. See ya Steve

But that would take time and effort and some real insight to the working of the universe and would lead to.......

Never mind.........

TheOnlyOne

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the differences are due to your own misperception, then perhaps you aren't the best one to say whether it's imagined or not. I think we need a note from your doctor on this.

A hawk just flew by my office window. It's been flying by for several days now and a dozen other people in my office have seen it and commented on it. We believe it actually exists, based on these perceptions.

 

[TheOnlyOne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif A hawk just flew by my office window. It's been flying by for several days now and a dozen other people in my office have seen it and commented on it. We believe it actually exists, based on these perceptions.

Straw-man, hawks are real, there is nothing else to say about it. On cables, give me real proof, real facts.

TheOnlyOne

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOnlyOne /img/forum/go_quote.gif Straw-man, hawks are real, there is nothing else to say about it.

I know. My comment was intentionally inane, to respond in kind to bigshot's inane comment.