[cel4145]

No. I'm not neglecting that. That type of compression is more like zip--lossless that just eliminates redundant data that can be re-implemented in the uncompression step. And to go from one format to another, it has to be uncompressed or you cannot encode to mp3.

With mp3, the lossy part of the compression process is in the encoding. I believe (but not 100% certain) that m4a works the same way. It is irrelevant to the final audio quality whether one goes m4a>flac>mp3, m4a>wav>mp3, or m4a>mp3. The data loss will be the same.

 

[kingofsand]

I love this conversation. It's really cool to see how fellow audiophiles handle their digital media. It not only sparks new ideas but helps with understanding. Now lets talk about DSD lol jk.

 

[tomb]

No. I'm not neglecting that. That type of compression is more like zip--lossless that just eliminates redundant data that can be re-implemented in the uncompression step. And to go from one format to another, it has to be uncompressed or you cannot encode to mp3.

With mp3, the lossy part of the compression process is in the encoding. I believe (but not 100% certain) that m4a works the same way. It is irrelevant to the final audio quality whether one goes m4a>flac>mp3, m4a>wav>mp3, or m4a>mp3. The data loss will be the same.

If you're absolutely certain that you know how the algorithm is written, then fine.  I don't, so I would choose to be more conservative.  There is no penalty in converting to wav first, except for your time.  In your statement, " m4a>flac>mp3, m4a>wav>mp3, or m4a>mp3. The data loss will be the same," I don't agree with the m4a-mp3 conversion.
 
My understanding is that FLAC is most like zip - FLAC removes those spaces that don't contain data.  So, I agree that m4a to wav or m4a to FLAC would be the same.  However, my post was suggesting mp3 as the final file form and not using FLAC at all.  That's where some of the other arguments came from - he's wasting tons of space and capability because FLAC is pointless if he doesn't start from lossless or virgin Redbook.  Anyway, you are doing a double compression with no certainty of the intermediate condition in going from m4a to mp3.  That's a different thing.  Unless, as I said before - the compression algorithm converts to some standard lossless state, first.  If it converts directly from m4a to mp3, then there may still be issues, because it depends on how it interprets the m4a file as the basis.  We don't know any of that for sure, though.  
 
Ultimately, I think we could both agree that he should really have Redbook quality in the first place.

 

[cel4145]

If you're absolutely certain that you know how the algorithm is written, then fine. 

I know for certain that's true about mp3 based on discussions I have read at Hydrogenaudio. Based upon descriptions I have seen of the m4a codec and encoding process, seems it would also be true for m4a, but I have not verified it.

Anyway, you are doing a double compression

Doubtful. Mp3 and m4a both apply psychoacoustic models in the encoding. It would be impossible to encode directly from m4a to mp3 (or vice versa) without first decompressing the file because it would be impossible to apply the psychoacoustic model.

 

[kingofsand]

My Fiio X1 seems to be playing the m4a's correctly, I am not sure out of all my iTunes which ones are encrypted but so far so good. If someone can clarify on the workings of iTunes and it's obsession with m4a please enlighten.
 
m4a/mp4 is the Apple lossy file. Apple turns EVERYTHING iTunes touches (music wise) into this format. So essentially from what I am seeing Apple will take even an MP3 which I have seen it do and turn it into an mp4 if you import that MP3 into iTunes. I don't know how the conversion works, I am not sure if it is upscaling or upsampeling musing when importing or if it is just converting to a lossy format just to be safe.

 

[cel4145]

My Fiio X1 seems to be playing the m4a's correctly, I am not sure out of all my iTunes are encrypted but so far so good. If someone can clarify on the workings of iTunes and it's obsession with m4a please enlighten.

Best advice? Avoid iTunes like the plague like many of the rest of us

 

[kingofsand]

Yea that is what I have started doing. I have always known for the best sound to stay away from iTunes unless you go with the enhanced for iTunes songs, or whatever they call them which are VERY rare and those are the ALAC songs in iTunes of which I have a few of.

 

[cel4145]

There are lots of good media players out there that work as well or better than iTunes. And they don't automatically make decisions to do things for you like iTunes does (PITA).

 

[kingofsand]

There are lots of good media players out there that work as well or better than iTunes. And they don't automatically make decisions to do things for you like iTunes does (PITA).

 
I just use VLC for its simplicity. But I don't ever do it through my computer. I recently sold my desktop which had a Xonar Essence STX. Now I have a laptop with an absolute crap audio out. I'll be building another computer here soon dedicated for audio fidelity, streaming, ripping/burning, and mass storage.

 

[cel4145]

For some different players, try Foobar, MediaMonkey, and MusicBee.

 

[kingofsand]

For some different players, try Foobar, MediaMonkey, and MusicBee.

 
I use mediamonkey for my ripping. I am slowly getting used to it for a media player. It's really smooth, problem is it's hard as hell to find a media player from a website that isn't going to download nothing but s*** on top of what might be the media player lol. 

 

[U2Bono269]

Hold on, I got lost...isn't ALAC just an .m4a file? Are his original files lossless?

 

[kingofsand]

  Hold on, I got lost...isn't ALAC just an .m4a file? Are his original files lossless?

 
Everything out of iTunes is an m4a file. And everything imported into iTunes becomes an m4a file.

 

[billybob_jcv]

Which is why I never let iTunes copy the media files - I leave them in the source directory so that iTunes only maps to them, it doesn't convert them. I don't want iTunes to do anything except send the files to my ipod.

 

[U2Bono269]

Which is why I never let iTunes copy the media files - I leave them in the source directory so that iTunes only maps to them, it doesn't convert them. I don't want iTunes to do anything except send the files to my ipod.

I had no idea iTunes did that.
 
I do allow iTunes to copy my media files...but I also maintain 2 separate libraries. I've never had success with using 3rd party software to load my iPod, so I just make duplicates of my flac files and convert them to ALAC and let iTunes take care of the rest. But I'm getting away from that.
 
I'll second what everyone else said. It's always a good idea to keep a base archive of cd-quality FLAC files just in case. Then you can make whatever conversions you want off of those.