[jegnyc]

Yeah. 

Well then what are CDA files then? Aren't those digital? 

Man this sucks. So many hassles. 

The CDA files are actually the files on the CD layer, not the SACD layer. In almost every case they will have the same music as the SACD layer. (Avalon by Roxy Music is the one exception that comes to mind.). But you are not seeing the DSD files.

 

[RockStar2005]

The CDA files are actually the files on the CD layer, not the SACD layer. In almost every case they will have the same music as the SACD layer. (Avalon by Roxy Music is the one exception that comes to mind.). But you are not seeing the DSD files.

 
Yeah. That's what I'd read too elsewhere. 
 
Wait!! Are you saying the files on the CD layer will be from the SAME MASTER as the ones found on the SACD layer???!!! Cuz I could care less about the DSD files if the CD files are the same thing just in CDA format. lol I really want to buy the 2nd Rage Against The Machine Hybrid SACD coming out on 12/16, but not if I can't rip it myself. (I have the 1st album on SACD and it sounds super incredible! Even outdoes the 20th Anniversary Edition remaster CD I just bought and returned recently.) 
 
As you can see, the company releasing these is Audio Fidelity, btw. 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Yeah. That's what I'd read too elsewhere. 
 
Wait!! Are you saying the files on the CD layer will be from the SAME MASTER as the ones found on the SACD layer???!!! Cuz I could care less about the DSD files if the CD files are the same thing just in CDA format. lol I really want to buy the 2nd Rage Against The Machine Hybrid SACD coming out on 12/16, but not if I can't rip it myself. (I have the 1st album on SACD and it sounds super incredible! Even outdoes the 20th Anniversary Edition remaster CD I just bought and returned recently.) 
 
As you can see, the company releasing these is Audio Fidelity, btw. 

 
Generally, the same recording (hence, "same music") is used for both the CD and SACD layer. Sometimes they are the same master, and sometimes not. If it's the same master, both the CD and SACD layer "should" sound the same.
 
If it's a Hybrid SACD, you can rip the CD layer via any CD drive connected to a computer.
 
CDA is not an audio file format. There are no digital files on either layer. Read the links I provided. Read this one too:
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio

 

[RockStar2005]

   
Generally, the same recording (hence, "same music") is used for both the CD and SACD layer. Sometimes they are the same master, and sometimes not. If it's the same master, both the CD and SACD layer "should" sound the same.
 
If it's a Hybrid SACD, you can rip the CD layer via any CD drive connected to a computer.
 
CDA is not a format. Read the link I provided. Read this one too:
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio

 
.CDA is not a format? The Wiki link you just referred says "Compact Disc Digital Audio (CDDA or CD-DA) is the standard format for audio compact discs." 
 
Is there ANY WAY to know ahead of time if they used the same master or not? I'm sure they would sound the same if they were. 
 
Yeah it is a Hybrid SACD, and so that is my plan if I can know for sure the CD layer will have the same master on it. 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  .CDA is not a format? The Wiki link you just referred says "Compact Disc Digital Audio (CDDA or CD-DA) is the standard format for audio compact discs." 
 
Is there ANY WAY to know ahead of time if they used the same master or not? I'm sure they would sound the same if they were. 
 
Yeah it is a Hybrid SACD, and so that is my plan if I can know for sure the CD layer will have the same master on it. 

 
*sigh* Did you not even click the links I shared?
 
CDA and CDDA are two different things. I also edited my post to clarify that I meant that CDA is not a digital audio file format.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.cda_file
 

A file with the extension .cda is a small (44 byte) stub file generated by Microsoft Windows for each audio track on a standard "Red Book" CD-DA format audio CD as defined by the Table of Contents (ToC) (within the lead-in's subcode). These files are shown in the directory for the CD being viewed in the format Track##.cda, where ## is the number of each individual track.
 
The .cda files do not contain the actual PCM sound wave data, but instead tell where on the disc each track starts and stops. If the file is "copied" from the CD to a computer, it cannot be used on its own because it is only a shortcut to part of the disc. However, some audio editing and CD creation programs will, from the user's perspective, load .cda files as though they are actual audio data files, and allow the user to listen to them. This should not be confused with the tracks actually containing the audio data on the CD.

 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio
 
Read the info on that link. "Format" does not refer to a digital audio file format in this instance.
 
You can only know in advance if they tell you that.

 

[RockStar2005]

   
*sigh* Did you not even click the links I shared?
 
CDA and CDDA are two different things. I also edited my post to clarify that I meant that CDA is not a digital audio file format.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.cda_file
 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio
 
Read the info on that link. "Format" does not refer to a digital audio file format in this instance.
 
You can only know in advance if they tell you that.

 
You know you can just tell me the answers to my questions if you have them. Or don't. You don't have to always send links for people to read through. I don't need to know every aspect of everything. I just want to know the main stuff and move on. 
 
Alright fine. Maybe I'll write them. Thanks. 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  You know you can just tell me the answers to my questions if you have them. Or don't. You don't have to always send links for people to read through. I don't need to know every aspect of everything. I just want to know the main stuff and move on. 

 
The problem is, if you don't have an understanding of something, you'll probably ask more questions based on that misunderstanding. So I seek to enlighten from the get-go, so to speak. Those links are just a brief overview anyway.

 

[jegnyc]

Generally, the same recording (hence, "same music") is used for both the CD and SACD layer. Sometimes they are the same master, and sometimes not. If it's the same master, both the CD and SACD layer "should" sound the same.

If it's a Hybrid SACD, you can rip the CD layer via any CD drive connected to a computer.

CDA is not an audio file format. There are no digital files on either layer. Read the links I provided. Read this one too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio

Thanks. Never actually knew that about CDAs.

As to masterings - some examples:

In classical, when BMG issued it's Living Stereo SACDs, both the redbook and the SACD layers were remastered. When Mercury issued its SACDs, only the SACD layer was a remaster.

I believe the two layers of Dark Side of the Moon use different masterings.

Overall, I believe different masterings on hybrid discs are the exception, not the rule.

 

[Yuri Korzunov]

Overall, I believe different masterings on hybrid discs are the exception, not the rule.

 
I suppose, there may be general master for the both layers (DSD and PCM).
 
If the master have resolution more 16 bit, the CD layer (16 bit) must be dithered, by rules.

 

[jegnyc]

Didn't notice they were from Audio Fidelity. That bodes well. And as far as I know, Steve Hoffman uses the same master for both layers. I have a number of SACDs mastered by Steve.

http://www.forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/sh-forums-giveaway-rage-against-the-machine-audio-fidelity-new-sacd-two-copies-to-give-away.554665/

http://www.forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/rage-against-the-machine-evil-empire-sacd-mastered-by-sh-on-audio-fidelity-coming.609874/

 

[Yuri Korzunov]

And as far as I know, Steve Hoffman uses the same master for both layers.
 

 
In my opinion, in frame of application CD or DSD, using of single master is fully technically correct.
 
However, there are may be different masters for radio, digital recording, vinyl, tape, etc.
 
Because these mediums have different audio abilities. And master may equalize final result of playback.
 
May be experts in the mastering correct me.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Thanks. Never actually knew that about CDAs.

 
Just be sure you're not mixing up CDA and CDDA. I provided information on both.

 

[RockStar2005]

Didn't notice they were from Audio Fidelity. That bodes well. And as far as I know, Steve Hoffman uses the same master for both layers. I have a number of SACDs mastered by Steve.

http://www.forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/sh-forums-giveaway-rage-against-the-machine-audio-fidelity-new-sacd-two-copies-to-give-away.554665/

http://www.forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/rage-against-the-machine-evil-empire-sacd-mastered-by-sh-on-audio-fidelity-coming.609874/

 
Nice! Thanks for those links! I had seen them before but this time I thought, instead of just e-mailing Audio Fidelity and asking my master question, I also just e-mailed Steve DIRECTLY on there (the thread was closed to new replies) and asked him straight out if the same master was used on both versions of Evil Empire. If I hear back, I'll post here. 

 

[RockStar2005]

   
In my opinion, in frame of application CD or DSD, using of single master is fully technically correct.
 
However, there are may be different masters for radio, digital recording, vinyl, tape, etc.
 
Because these mediums have different audio abilities. And master may equalize final result of playback.
 
May be experts in the mastering correct me.

 
Yeah that's true. The studios almost always use different masters for different formats. 
 
I hope it is the same master. Then I will re pre-order the Evil Empire one. Sometimes the Hi-Res version just isn't good enough, as is the case with the 1st Rage album's recent Hi-Res release. 
 
I wish they would just use one master for all, but I guess too many ppl feel it wouldn't sound as good depending on the medium used. I guess I can understand that, though I still think it's partly money-motivated. Ppl won't buy Hi-Res if CD-Quality sounds the same. lol

 

[Yuri Korzunov]

I wish they would just use one master for all, but I guess too many ppl feel it wouldn't sound as good depending on the medium used. I guess I can understand that, though I still think it's partly money-motivated. Ppl won't buy Hi-Res if CD-Quality sounds the same. lol

Difference of sound quality for different resolutions is not so simple matter as looks.

Resolution can't provide quality as itself.

It can provide quality in complex with audio processing and hardware during playback.

As example, pro-audio DAC at 44 kHz may sound better 192 kHz non-pro one.

Into these DACs may be different digital processing and analog filters.

Several last years CD sounds very good, comparing earlier issues, as me seems.

I think, hi-res music production workflow is a reason this phenomenon.