[bigshot]

Quote:

Maybe this judgement on a few of the conductors is better than your earlier judgement on the contents of this boxed set.

 
Unfortunately only a couple of the disks in this box have good conductors. I disagree with the advice to just focus on composers. I did that, and I got turned off to Schumann and Brahms. Later I found out that the problem wasn't Schumann and Brahms, it was mediocre conductors. There are some conductors where you are always safe... Dorati, Reiner, Szell... I could make a list. I'd stick with good conductors and not focus on specific composers until you find the ones that speak to you. At least that way, you know you're giving the music a fair shot.

 

[chrisjackson]

That must be some gift you have that allows you to know that conductors whose work you are not familiar with are not good. Makes one wonder if you would have insisted Mackerras was not good before he eventually started to get public recognition for his work towards the end of his life. And what of your safe list? Any more reason why one shouldn't follow the opinion of the guy interviewed here :
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/HallofFame/Harnoncourt/Feature/Interview
who insists George Szell was completely unmusical and that he came close to killing him on a number of occasions 

Anyways these issues are too complex for my little brain; I only posted on this thread in response to post #23 trying to wheedle out more info on the boxed set under discussion.
 
PS. Apologies the quotation from my post above comes across as a bit sharp. Note to self, don't write posts in the early hours of the morning.

 

[Makiah S]

Oh that reminds me... I'm a member of What.Cd and we have a great classical selection! Still it's a private bit-torrent tracker. A VERY high quality one at that. Non the less our selection is pretty amazing, and ratio requirements are pretty easy to maintain. I buy a few $3 EPs every month to keep my uploads up! 

 

[Punnisher]

Chris, in regards to post no 24, I don't believe it's the same set. I was hoping it was since I do have 6 or 7 of those individual albums and they sound very good. None of those exact albums appear in the boxed set.

 

[bigshot]

That must be some gift you have that allows you to know that conductors whose work you are not familiar with are not good.

I've been listening to classical music for thirty years. I have over 10,000 CDs and at least as many records. I've heard Simonov and Handley and the other conductors in this box. They are primarily third tier conductors. Paarvo Jarvi is good, but not in a warhorse like Dvorak's "New World". Menuhin was a fine violinist, but he was just an average conductor. There aren't that many conductors who record. It really isn't remarkable for a classical music fan to look at a list of recordings and be able to pick out the good performers.

As for George Szell, how many of his recordings have you heard? Have you seen the footage of him rehearsing in the Great Conductors of the Century video?

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

I will also vouch for zoverstocks, never had a problem with them. Patience has never been the biggest issue when I buy, and stuff I've ordered from MM tends to come before stuff I've ordered from Amazon during the same purchase, but that is true, I would not necessarily call it a speedy process. More important to me, personally, is that I know what I'm getting condition-wise, and that has never been an issue.

Agreed.

 
My main gripe with buying second-hand from Amazon is actually rarely with the quality of the cds, but with the packaging. Some sellers use very minimalist packaging and especially bigger cd cases then often arrive cracked. (I wish I knew of the top of my head which sellers are the main culprits here, but I would have to look it up.)

 

[Drosera]

Quote:

I've been listening to classical music for thirty years. I have over 10,000 CDs and at least as many records. I've heard Simonov and Handley and the other conductors in this box. They are primarily third tier conductors. Paarvo Jarvi is good, but not in a warhorse like Dvorak's "New World". Menuhin was a fine violinist, but he was just an average conductor. There aren't that many conductors who record. It really isn't remarkable for a classical music fan to look at a list of recordings and be able to pick out the good performers.

As for George Szell, how many of his recordings have you heard? Have you seen the footage of him rehearsing in the Great Conductors of the Century video?

 
While I agree with your general assessment, in the end even a well informed opinion, while valuable, is still just that: an opinion.
 
I agree that that Royal Philharmonic box is probably on the whole rather average as performances go, there are better deals to be had. That said, that Yuri Simonov Mahler 1 happens to be one of my favourites. (Even though I have only close to 10,000 classical cds and only have been actively listening to classical music for about 25 years.

)

 

[chrisjackson]

Quote:

Chris, in regards to post no 24, I don't believe it's the same set. I was hoping it was since I do have 6 or 7 of those individual albums and they sound very good. None of those exact albums appear in the boxed set.

 
Punnisher, did you check my link in post #26 as well as #24? There seem to be quite a number of matches in works and conductors.
 
Bigshot I gave a simple illustration of how opinions can vary by citing that Nikolaus Harnoncourt doesn't rate Szell (whom he played under) as a musician. I fail to see how the number of Szell recordings I have heard or Szell videos I have watched is in any way relevant to that. Surely if you disagree with Count Nikolaus, and you consider such things appropriate, you should rather be measuring your musical experience and achievements against his?

 

[bigshot]

Bad artists always admire each other’s work. They call it being large-minded and free from prejudice. But a truly great artist cannot conceive of life being shown, or beauty fashioned, under any conditions other than those that he has selected. –Oscar Wilde

 

[calaf]

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,^[1] by posting inflammatory,^[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally^[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^{[6] - Wikipedia}

 

[bigshot]

I was explaining why Harnoncourt might not like Szell.

 

[calaf]

sorry I could not resist   
Remembering the title of this topic, I think you'd agree this Szell controversy (BTW big Szell fan here) has been going on for quite enough

 

[chrisjackson]

Quote:

sorry I could not resist   

 
 
Maybe you should consider trying a little harder next time calaf 

 
There is no controversy about Szell. The issues under consideration are about the basis on which one makes selections, whether one should advocate such a thing as a "safe choice" and, more specifically, whether one should dismiss potentially fine performances on the grounds of someone else's preconceived hierarchy. Then there arose  potentially thorny (or laughable depending on your emotional distance) questions about measuring "credibility".
 
You're probably right that this belongs on another thread. I did try to "move on" in post #32 but felt the need to respond to post #34. Hopefully Punnisher can get a satisfactory answer.

 

[rooje]

What about discogs as a source?

 

[bigshot]

It's kind of ironic that Szell would be disliked by a modern conductor, because Szell was one of the first conductors who valued precision and correctness over expression and individual license. That makes him one of the moderns more than fitting into the league of Stokowski and Toscanini. Szell is a "safe" conductor because he doesn't extend beyond the letter of the score, which is good for a beginner. Later on, as they become more familiar with the works, more individualistic and expressionistic approaches might appeal to them more.

I think it's VERY important for someone's first exposure to a work to be a solid, well thought out performance. I had a few records in my early days that were mediocre performances... bad Brahms, bland Sibelius, etc... and they turned me off to those composers. I later came to learn that the problem wasn't the composers, it was the performances.

Itt's much better to start with a few really good recordings, than to throw your net wide and expose yourself to a bunch of crappy ones. Thankfully, the mega boxes, like the Living Stereo and Decca Sound boxes allow you to have your cake and eat it too. 50 fabulous performances for a couple of bucks a disk. Can't beat that.