[benjammin79]

I've become a huge fan of DSD. I currently use a Chord Mojo, but the battery has died from constant charging (oops) so I'm in the market for: EITHER another Chord DAC, or a Denifraps Ares II which I understand is R2R direct Native DSD DAC, or a ESS Sabre type DAC, maybe Benchmark or Mytek, which I understand does Native DSD, but with some more processing than the ladder DACs or the Lampizators, sort of a middle ground perhaps.
Strictly on the basis of what makes DSD files sound the most like analog, which of these three options would you recommend?

 

[chriscarstens]

How about the Questyle CMA 400i? I love mine.

 

[Roseval]

which I understand is R2R direct Native DSD DAC

Of course not.
R2R is PCM (16/24 bit samples) only so totally unable to do DSD (single bit)
https://www.denafrips.com/specs-ares says "6BIT DSD (32 steps FIR Filters)"
They probably use a separate DAC for DSD but not a single bit one and certainly not R2R.
However, using multi bit DAC for DSD is not uncommon (not to be mistaken with using a single bit flip/flop for "true" DSD)

 

[CAJames]

I have the Denafrips Terminator 2 DAC, which is essential the same technology as the Ares, just fancier. And I’m a big fan of DSD, both downloads and SACD rips. I have up to DSD256 in my collection and they sound great. I know several others who have Denafrips models including the Ares and everyone seems to love their DAC. But I’ve got to say that even better than the way Denafrips plays hirez files is the way it makes humbling 16/44 sound like hirez. I don’t think you can go wrong with an Ares at the price.

 

[Hoshi]

I've been listening to DSD lately using HQPlayer through the Ares II. My source is Qobuz, Tidal and stored redbook files mostly played through Roon. I'm getting great results from the Ares II but often wonder if there are better native DACs that do not upsample in the DSD format. It is my assumption that in a perfect world, it would be best; when using a software such as HQPlayer with a DAC does not upsample or add filtering to the signal once processed by HQPlayer. I believe that all Denafrips DACs from the Terminator Plus to Ares II do not upsample in DSD as well but all use the same 6-bit DSD 32-bit FIR filters architecture. I don't know how much a difference in sound quality one would experience in the Denafrips line using the DSD format especially when using HQPlayer that does all the heavy lifting processing the incoming signal.

I looked at the Holo Audio site but it is unclear to me if any processing is done with DSD. Has anyone moved up the Denafrips lineup and noticed a significant improvement with DSD as the primary format or know of any other DAC that does not upsample in the DSD format?

 

[CAJames]

...Has anyone moved up the Denafrips lineup and noticed a significant improvement with DSD as the primary format or know of any other DAC that does not upsample in the DSD format?

This is all JMO/FWIW but it is easy to geek out over the details of digital to analogue conversion like upsampling and bits and filters because there are lots of numbers and detailed specs into which we can sink our teeth. But the "sound" of a DAC is much more than just the digital to analogue conversion, it is the power supply and the digital inputs and the analogue output stage too. When you move up the Denafrips line the DACs sound better because all those aspects (including the quality of the digital to analogue conversion) improves.

To answer your question directly everyone I know who has moved up the Denafrips line (and the May line for that matter) has loved the improvement, for every format.

 

[Hoshi]

I agree with you that there is more to a DAC than just what lies on paper with specifications. A DAC like the May will likely sound better that an Ares as it likely uses parts and general design with cost cutting not being a priority. An example would be the separate power supply like that on the May will give the user a quieter sound stage but is that improvement worth 7X the price vs. the Ares? It is for some users but paying for those type of improvements do not make sense for me at this time. I should have perhaps noted that I'm attempting to find a DAC where I do not end up paying for feature sets that I would not use. Ladder DACs like Denafrips and I believe Holo put a lot of resources into the R2R portion of the DAC which is only used for PCM, which I would not be using.

 

[originalsnuffy]

There are many great DSD solutions in the market. It is included gratis in most audio DAC chips noawadays.

As much as I love SACD and DSD; here is a caveat. If you turn on any kind of audio processing in your system the whole benefit of DSD is negated. Everything gets resampled to PCM. If that is the case (and you would be surprised) then there is no point in going overboard on the DSD decoding.

I put in a whole home audio system and the Amp / Switch is an Anthem. Anthem is known for great sound correction but as you might guess everything that goes through it is sampled at 24 - 192. And my home theater systems all usually have Audyssey turned on; which is 24 bit 48 khz. You can turn of Audyssey and go bitperfect DSD direct which does sound nice.

So if resampling is in your future, then you might as well just feed your receiver PCM signals.

 

[chesebert]

I've become a huge fan of DSD. I currently use a Chord Mojo, but the battery has died from constant charging (oops) so I'm in the market for: EITHER another Chord DAC, or a Denifraps Ares II which I understand is R2R direct Native DSD DAC, or a ESS Sabre type DAC, maybe Benchmark or Mytek, which I understand does Native DSD, but with some more processing than the ladder DACs or the Lampizators, sort of a middle ground perhaps.
Strictly on the basis of what makes DSD files sound the most like analog, which of these three options would you recommend?

That would be dacs Emm Labs. Will cost you however. Best is not cheap.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I looked at the Holo Audio site but it is unclear to me if any processing is done with DSD. Has anyone moved up the Denafrips lineup and noticed a significant improvement with DSD as the primary format or know of any other DAC that does not upsample in the DSD format?

I believe the R2R Audio-gd DACs that have NOS (most of them) are quite excellent.

 

[CheepShot]

I have an RME ADI-2 Pro on the 'wish list' to record directly to DSD.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

OP was not seen since 1 Dec 2021.

On the discussion. I like always what Audio-gd R2R Mk11 brings. An R2R DAC with 3.8W @ 25Ohms SE amp. Analog in presentation that doesn't break the bank (below $400). Now it has a MKII, but they up the pricing to $599 w/ the standard version and $668 w/ updated Crystek clocks.