[bmiamihk]

My MG6pro sound has changed a lot within the 3 months I been listening to them.

 
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So 300 hours will alter the frequency response and that's the minimum I must have for a valid opinion on how I hear them? Please, this is ridiculous.

 

 

[tinyman392]

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I'm not attacking what you are hearing,  In fact I believe you hear them exactly as you've described them.  Why would I think any different?
 
I'm only calling you out when you make remarks to disparage or take credence away from what others hear.  I have not once said that what you hear is wrong or can't be. You've completely missed the point.  But you have most definitely tried to discredit my opinion with this post on the previous one.  You've put qualifiers on my opinion.  I've never done that with you.  I'd never dispute what you hear with your own ears, whether it takes you 20 minutes or 200 hours.
 
For the record, I have not said anything bad about the ASG-1.  In fact I like it a lot but ultimately it's not for me, and I think I've been very fair in my assessment of it.
 
Try this next time:  "For me the shoutiness goes away at 200+ hours".
 
 

You said what I said was ridiculous, that's discrediting enough for me.  Basically, your first message translated to "that's crazy talk" (considered your tone of writing as well as wording) which made it look like you were attacking me (whether that was deliberate or not).
 
In addition, the burn in was done with a reference to the Etymotic HF5 the whole time.  Technically, it should still change within 200 hours.  If I'm saying it, it's an impression (this is an impression thread).  I have no problem with you not liking it, but if it's only because of the shoutyness, give it more time before you say it'll always be like this.  If it works for one person, it could work for you.  It may not. It is worth a try though for those who did buy them and hope for shoutyness to go away.
 
I made the statement that I think people were jumping to conclusions because it seemed like no one wanted to give it a chance to actually burn in.  Instead, they would burn in for a short amount of time (I haven't seen any numbers go over 50 hours in this thread), say it's too shouty, then EQ it so they would never know whether or not the further burn in would help it.  I made my statements based on what I've read in the last 150 pages.  I stand by them.
 

 

[shotgunshane]

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[tinyman392]

Quote:

Nice...  I guess we are hearing the same stuff then  
 

If he's anywhere near me, I'm nearing around 200 hours burn in, 100+ hours of use.  No EQs, I really never found them needed for this, with the proper seal, they were no more "shouty" than my Etymotic EtyKids, and now both the Etymotic EtyKids and Etymotic HF2s are more "shouty" than my ASG-1. 
 
Essentially, I think people were creating opinions about the "shoutyness" too early, it dissipates with time (based on what I've been hearing thus for in the last 2 weeks).  The only problem is that I wish the highs would detail slightly better. 

Read the bold...  It was my impressions, I never said you'd hear it the way I did, but it could help to still burn them in.
 
The funny thing is that since I've gotten the ASGs, you've been the only one with problems with the impressions I've posted.  Whether it be the there was no shoutyness (because I had a different definition), or the burn in fiasco we just had.  You seem to be the only one hell-bent on attacking my ideas and opinions.  Just putting that out there.  Even before hand when I made a statement that tips can burn in (due to them getting oiled up with your skin, changing shape, etc) you were well against me.  It seems I can't have any positive opinions about these without you attacking that opinion.
 

 

[jaysins]

An open forum really isn't the best place for such a debate. You've both stated your opinions and subjective feelings on the headphones, much more than once in fact, and are now cluttering up this forum space with unneeded redundancy. I had so much going on this last week I haven't been to the forums once or even listened to my headphones and had to read through so much to get caught up so it'd be nice if more of this was done of personal messages. 
 
Personally, I cannot wait to get the filters. For some songs I actually leave the EQ off and really enjoy it. Some acoustic rock songs really benefit from the louder midrange and allow songs with recessed mids to really be more enjoyable and add a lot of clarity to the vocals; Bush for example sounds bettter to me as I can really hear what he's saying. However, having the option to tune the mids back would be nice as when I'm listening to Mog through my phone I am without an equalizer :/. Cannot wait for them to go on sale.  Hurry Dale!

 

[AuralHygiene]

Actually I had mine burning in for a very long time, probably upwards of 400 hours or so. In terms of the mids, I definitely agree that they settled down quite a bit from the initial out of the box sound. Like you I also referenced these with the HF3s as well as my UE 700 to be consistent. 
 
The sound changed the greatest probably in the first week of burn in (~80 hrs ontop of the 16 that dosley had burned in).  And they continued to change periodically until around 200 or so hours, though the changes were more so in the highs and lows than in the mids by then.
 
 

I made the statement that I think people were jumping to conclusions because it seemed like no one wanted to give it a chance to actually burn in.  Instead, they would burn in for a short amount of time (I haven't seen any numbers go over 50 hours in this thread), say it's too shouty, then EQ it so they would never know whether or not the further burn in would help it.  I made my statements based on what I've read in the last 150 pages.  I stand by them.
 

 
 
 
So from my gathering of the last string of posts, I think our definition of "shoutiness" still is a little different. In reference to the HF3, I personally wouldn't call them shouty. They do have an emphasis on the mids, but I regarded the "shoutiness" as more of a a spike at a certain frequency rather than an emphasis over the entire mid-range (though they are definitely over emphasized as stage monitors). So in reference to the to-may-to vs to-mah-to idea, the emphasis on the mah really only gets fatiguing with certain recordings (more often with female vocalists than male vocalists, there's almost a reverberation of sorts that happens).
 
In fact, I believe that both with EQ and the filters, they try to address this which is around the 1.2 kHz range. And by dropping it by a few decibles, it makes no change to the overall sound signature of the ASGs but it stops that spike. 
 
With the filtered version, I feel that they seems to reduce the overall mid-range a bit as well as fix the spike that occurs around that frequency. However, they do come at the cost of seeming to change the sound-stage and highs a bit, though I'll refrain from judging until I get some more time with these.
 
So again, I think there is a definition issue of "shoutiness" that not everyone is in agreement with, and it is a matter of what one person hears vs another. For me personally, I am in consent that by the end of burn in, the mid range is no greater than the HF3s, but the spike was still present. I think this was the initial complaint that was found in the first 30 pages of this thread (linked to one reference), which soon got lost in translation and the term shoutiness has been thrown around and blown up since then to mean a mid-range over emphasis.
 
P.S. I can't find the link but there was that one site that someone linked that that played different tones when you clicked on them, does anyone know which that was?
 
 

 

[AuralHygiene]

Jaysin, I think that for Aurisonics, that was the point of creating the AS-1bs, which are tunable through the bass port and this can shift the sound signature from V to flat to bass emphasis with each turn. The ASGs were originally demo models that exploded in popularity but these features are definitely something reserved for their top end model. Though it is wonderfully nice of them to create filters to make these more audiophile friendly  
 
Quote:

Personally, I cannot wait to get the filters. For some songs I actually leave the EQ off and really enjoy it. Some acoustic rock songs really benefit from the louder midrange and allow songs with recessed mids to really be more enjoyable and add a lot of clarity to the vocals; Bush for example sounds bettter to me as I can really hear what he's saying. However, having the option to tune the mids back would be nice as when I'm listening to Mog through my phone I am without an equalizer :/. Cannot wait for them to go on sale.  Hurry Dale!

 

 

[bmiamihk]

This is why not all companies offer demos.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

Actually I had mine burning in for a very long time, probably upwards of 400 hours or so. In terms of the mids, I definitely agree that they settled down quite a bit from the initial out of the box sound. Like you I also referenced these with the HF3s as well as my UE 700 to be consistent. 
 
The sound changed the greatest probably in the first week of burn in (~80 hrs ontop of the 16 that dosley had burned in).  And they continued to change periodically until around 200 or so hours, though the changes were more so in the highs and lows than in the mids by then.
 
 
 
 
 
So from my gathering of the last string of posts, I think our definition of "shoutiness" still is a little different. In reference to the HF3, I personally wouldn't call them shouty. They do have an emphasis on the mids, but I regarded the "shoutiness" as more of a a spike at a certain frequency rather than an emphasis over the entire mid-range (though they are definitely over emphasized as stage monitors). So in reference to the to-may-to vs to-mah-to idea, the emphasis on the mah really only gets fatiguing with certain recordings (more often with female vocalists than male vocalists, there's almost a reverberation of sorts that happens).
 
In fact, I believe that both with EQ and the filters, they try to address this which is around the 1.2 kHz range. And by dropping it by a few decibles, it makes no change to the overall sound signature of the ASGs but it stops that spike. 
 
With the filtered version, I feel that they seems to reduce the overall mid-range a bit as well as fix the spike that occurs around that frequency. However, they do come at the cost of seeming to change the sound-stage and highs a bit, though I'll refrain from judging until I get some more time with these.
 
So again, I think there is a definition issue of "shoutiness" that not everyone is in agreement with, and it is a matter of what one person hears vs another. For me personally, I am in consent that by the end of burn in, the mid range is no greater than the HF3s, but the spike was still present. I think this was the initial complaint that was found in the first 30 pages of this thread (linked to one reference), which soon got lost in translation and the term shoutiness has been thrown around and blown up since then to mean a mid-range over emphasis.
 
P.S. I can't find the link but there was that one site that someone linked that that played different tones when you clicked on them, does anyone know which that was?
 
 

For reference, Etymotic actually does put a spike in their headphones as well, but it's actually more of a plateau over the 1-2k region (which is why it sounded slightly shouty to me).  As I did state, it does have that "feature", but just not as much of a degree as the ASGs had around the 80 hour mark.  I compared them today to find that the shoutyness is <= that of the Etymotic (in some songs, they shoutyness in the vocals is at the same levels as the Etymotic, in others, it's less.  However, it's never more).  Etymotic EtyKids have the same amount of shoutyness that is present in the ASGs around the 80 hour mark. 
 

​

There is a small increase (this one is not a spike) in the 1-2k region which does pass over the 1.2k.​

 ​

This increase in the Etymotic is what really made the notes hold longer without decay.  It is still present and can be heard in that Rhiana song I mentioned (Cheers (I Drink to That)).  The ASGs no longer do it in that song (the degree isn't enough for me to call it shouty).  The EtyKids have a similar plateau (except this one is slightly larger in comparison to the rest of the spectrum).  I would consider the EtyKids shouty, but nothing that was bad, yet (but definitely walking the line):
 

​

Etymotic likes to do the plateau around 1-2k to create the energy (but in this case shoutyness) in the mids.​

 
I do understand what the filters do, they filter the 1.2k region (down).  I don't know how much, nor am I worried about how much (at the moment).  I originally estimated it around 1.5k, I was wrong about that (it was just an estimate after all).  I honestly feel that there is no need (after these complete the burn in process) to drop that midrange lower than 4 dB.
 
Essentially, how I hear these now is basically like an pair of Etymotic HF2s with rolled off treble (hopefully this increases, but I think they are done).  At around 50-80 hours, they sounded like Etymotic EtyKids with really rolled off treble (the treble reminded me of the ACS T15 while they were burning in).  This was the reason I originally called them analytic mids, their midrange sounded so much like the Etymotics (and that is plural) while the treble reminded me of the T15s (not plural).
 
Regarding the definition, if you can clarify it for me, it would be really nice (if you feel that I still don't have it down).  I can definitely see why the linked comments on "shoutyness" isn't the correct definition now (this isn't my definition though, this is: http://www.head-fi.org/t/597225/aurisonics-asg-1-which-tips-are-the-best-with-reviews-to-come/105#post_8235049).  They called it the same thing I did, mid-range energy (which I did in both of my Etymotic reviews).  As I did state, my definition changed, it's linked directly above in this post.  I honestly don't feel that I have the correct definition of "shoutyness" still. 
 
Upon trying to look up information about it originally I ran into this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/596028/joe-grado-hp1000-modifications that gave me a general idea of something I've experienced before (which I redefined as resonance).  I had this in the A151s and it was purely a fit issue (which is the reason why I stressed fit so much).  However, if my definition is off, please give me a better one to work off of. 
 
There is no need to find the site that plays tones, I'll trust you guys when you say it's 1.2k (rather than 1.5).  A spike is a spike. 
 
EDIT:  I just re-read your post and saw you told me what shoutyness was redefined as just an overemphasis of the midrange.  I don't hear this in the ASGs though, the mid-range instrumentals aren't as emphasized on the ASG-1s as my W4s, Etymotics (both), or even my T15s.  I just hear vocals emphasized (Etymotic does the same, but balances out the lower-mid instrumentals a little better, but still has a vocal focus to my ears).  I still feel that the 1.2k spike (or plateau, I'm still not sure if it's actually a spike in the mid-range or just a plateau) is a better definition rather than the entire midrange as a whole.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

Jaysin, I think that for Aurisonics, that was the point of creating the AS-1bs, which are tunable through the bass port and this can shift the sound signature from V to flat to bass emphasis with each turn. The ASGs were originally demo models that exploded in popularity but these features are definitely something reserved for their top end model. Though it is wonderfully nice of them to create filters to make these more audiophile friendly  
 


 

The bass tuning (on the Bs) does V-shape too?  I thought it was just the bass

 

[AuralHygiene]

Haha sorry, I should correct it and say that based on the few review of the AS 1bs that are out there that, they might be able to? These valves can create sparkly highs to recessed mids sound (I interpreted that as a V shape?) according to project 86. I'll confirm this when my set arrives, but that would be amazing if they do. I also brought up the question of filters for the AS - 1b to Dale and he did suggest that the bass port should fix the problem already though adding possibilities of filters could be an additional possible permutation to the many sounds that these can already produce. 
 
We definitely need some more input from the few who currently have their customs AS 1b, and I'm wondering how many more have ordered them.
 
I actually completely see you point now about the Etys and we are in complete agreement now. The mid range was definitely no greater than the HF3 which we both used as our references by the end of burn in for me as well. I really only paid attention to the times when the ASGs sounded more spiked than the HF3s, but I never thought of the times when HF3s were more emphasized than the ASGs. Guess that changes how I see things now, very interesting...
 
Seems your definition is fine, I just was getting confused by the endless posts on this  

 

[kenman345]

Yea, we definitely need more input from the people that have the AS-1b's. I will be getting my pair in the next week or two, but considering Dale has said that the AS-1b's are the top seller, we haven't heard much about them at all.
 
Quote:

Haha sorry, I should correct it and say that based on the few review of the AS 1bs that are out there that, they might be able to? These valves can create sparkly highs to recessed mids sound (I interpreted that as a V shape?) according to project 86. I'll confirm this when my set arrives, but that would be amazing if they do. I also brought up the question of filters for the AS - 1b to Dale and he did suggest that the bass port should fix the problem already though adding possibilities of filters could be an additional possible permutation to the many sounds that these can already produce. 
 
We definitely need some more input from the few who currently have their customs AS 1b, and I'm wondering how many more have ordered them.
 
I actually completely see you point now about the Etys and we are in complete agreement now. The mid range was definitely no greater than the HF3 which we both used as our references by the end of burn in for me as well. I really only paid attention to the times when the ASGs sounded more spiked than the HF3s, but I never thought of the times when HF3s were more emphasized than the ASGs. Guess that changes how I see things now, very interesting...
 
Seems your definition is fine, I just was getting confused by the endless posts on this  

 

 

[jrkong]

Quote:

Haha sorry, I should correct it and say that based on the few review of the AS 1bs that are out there that, they might be able to? These valves can create sparkly highs to recessed mids sound (I interpreted that as a V shape?) according to project 86. I'll confirm this when my set arrives, but that would be amazing if they do. I also brought up the question of filters for the AS - 1b to Dale and he did suggest that the bass port should fix the problem already though adding possibilities of filters could be an additional possible permutation to the many sounds that these can already produce. 
 
We definitely need some more input from the few who currently have their customs AS 1b, and I'm wondering how many more have ordered them.
 
I actually completely see you point now about the Etys and we are in complete agreement now. The mid range was definitely no greater than the HF3 which we both used as our references by the end of burn in for me as well. I really only paid attention to the times when the ASGs sounded more spiked than the HF3s, but I never thought of the times when HF3s were more emphasized than the ASGs. Guess that changes how I see things now, very interesting...
 
Seems your definition is fine, I just was getting confused by the endless posts on this  

Well I'll get my review out when I get my AS-1b asap, but anyone want to clear up the definition of "shouty" to prevent further confusion?

 

[vwinter]

Yea, we definitely need more input from the people that have the AS-1b's. I will be getting my pair in the next week or two, but considering Dale has said that the AS-1b's are the top seller, we haven't heard much about them at all.
 


 

Yea, I'd like to hear some also. Maybe the sales are to musicians more so than head-fi members.

Well I'll get my review out when I get my AS-1b asap, but anyone want to clear up the definition of "shouty" to prevent further confusion?

I hear it as a spike in the midrange that seriously overpowers the rest of the frequency range when it hits. I'd also say it also has more of a rounded edge.

I had a similar spike in the lower treble range of my HJE900 that just loooved Japanese female vocals but that had a very sharp edge to it and actually was almost painful. The ASG-1 just gets loud and vague with its spike.

I personally wouldn't call just a spike or plateau in the mids as having energy, which to me is more about focus and power and maybe having an edge like the Panny's. But that's just my definition I'd say the ASG-1 definitely has the power but I'm not so sure about the focus or having an edge.

 

[tinyman392]

Well I'll get my review out when I get my AS-1b asap, but anyone want to clear up the definition of "shouty" to prevent further confusion?

Shouty, as defined in the Tips thread (I forgot the guys username, on mobile, so I can't look it up; it was Monkey- Something) is the overemphasis of the 1.2k region (my definition states vocal region rather than just the 1.2k region) which causes a lack of decay in vocals (specifically powerful female vocals) that can become annoying. There can also be a shoutyness in some midrange instrumentals as well (I hear it with Mayday Parade a bit).

It is not to be confused with an overemphasis of the entire midrange (which the ASG doesn't do).