Jackson9696
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2013
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I don't know why, maybe I'm just lucky, but my pair has no such smell. The smell should go away overtime with use.
That smell recedes over time, but becomes pleasantly familiar. I also like real leather (smells good when I put on my Fostex TH600 with Lawton pads), but I don't take issue with protein leather either.
I've just taken delivery of a shiny new pair of Nighthawks
Initial impressions are shared with the frequently used descriptions on this thread - that the sound is incredibly liquid and immersive. Listening to well known music they really are quite revelatory in terms of the extra layers and detail of sound that is revealed. I'm aware though that a long burn in time is recommended so I'll reserve full judgement for a while, then come back with more detailed observations.
In the meantime, and if Skylar is reading this, I do have some feedback.
Everything about the construction side of the Nighthawks is exemplary. I really, really appreciate the thought and effort put into designing this product from the ground up. It looks gorgeous and is hands down the most comfortable headphone I've ever placed on my head. This product deserves a place in design museums - and I'm sure you'll see it there soon.
There's one single issue: others have mentioned an unpleasant odour from the product. I too notice this, and having removed one of the ear cushions I've confirmed that it emanates from the "protein leather" aka "leatherette" or "faux leather" or artificial leather. In my understanding what I and others are smelling are the chemical plasticisers in the PVC used to make it. Given the attention to detail used elsewhere on the product, for instance the non off-gassing liquid wood coating, I feel at a loss as to why the product would have been compromised in this way. Quite apart from the unpleasant chemical smell, if you research PVC and other plastics you'll find that there are significant and known issues to do with off-gassing and the toxicity of plasticisers and other chemicals used in production. Japanese car manufacturers began a process of eliminating such fabrics from their vehicles back in 2007.
Skylar - how I wish you'd used Italian vegetable tanned natural leather instead. It's super, super soft (as any Italian glove owner will tell you) It breathes, it smells gorgeous, it's natural, and it would undoubtedly enhance the look and perceived value of the Nighthawk.
May I humbly plead with you to consider producing Italian Veg tanned leather pads? Even if it's an additional cost accessory. I'd gladly pay for what I think would be superior. As it is, the existing pads don't quite provide enough breathe-ability, and the smell detracts from the listening experience. It grabs part of my sensory attention away from the music, and that just isn't good.
So how about it Skylar? Even the chance of a spare plastic frame and pad would be appreciated, and I'll get my own made.
Please?
Xarq,
I'm really glad you're enjoying NightHawk, and thanks for the feedback. I can help clear up some confusion.
First, the smell is not the earpads, it is the natural aroma of liquid wood, a completely natural material.
Most people really like the smell (myself included). Of course, there will always be those who don’t care for it.
Fortunately for those who don't like it, the smell diminishes fairly rapidly over time as long as they are out of the case.
After a few days the smell diminishes by about half.
After 1–2 weeks, another half, and after 2–4 weeks, it should be mostly unnoticeable.
If one directly sniffs the inside of the earpad area after 2 weeks or more, there will be a faint aroma of liquid wood—which will have then matured to a more vanilla aroma (after all, one of the “top-secret” ingredients in liquid wood is vanilla bean extract).
Second, NightHawk is a sustainable, responsibly manufactured, and fully RoHS-compliant product; therefore, there are no plasticizers or harmful chemicals used (including PVC). I am extremely passionate about eliminating harmful materials in the manufacture of our products, and I believe NightHawk is the most sustainably produced headphone ever made. You can read more about our sustainability efforts here.
Third, our pads are made from eggshell membrane-derived proteins, so it's a more natural material than regular synthetic leather. This particular leather was specifically developed to more closely resemble human skin, which means improved comfort. Further, this eggshell leather is much more durable than genuine leather. We made the decision to use eggshell leather so that the pads wouldn't wear out as fast as genuine leather and would require no maintenance. You can read more about NightHawk's ergonomic design here.
Fourth, if you still want to make your own pads, the stock pads can be easily taken off the retaining frame and swapped out.
Xarq,
I'm really glad you're enjoying NightHawk, and thanks for the feedback. I can help clear up some confusion.
First, the smell is not the earpads, it is the natural aroma of liquid wood, a completely natural material.
Most people really like the smell (myself included). Of course, there will always be those who don’t care for it.
Fortunately for those who don't like it, the smell diminishes fairly rapidly over time as long as they are out of the case.
After a few days the smell diminishes by about half.
After 1–2 weeks, another half, and after 2–4 weeks, it should be mostly unnoticeable.
If one directly sniffs the inside of the earpad area after 2 weeks or more, there will be a faint aroma of liquid wood—which will have then matured to a more vanilla aroma (after all, one of the “top-secret” ingredients in liquid wood is vanilla bean extract).
Second, NightHawk is a sustainable, responsibly manufactured, and fully RoHS-compliant product; therefore, there are no plasticizers or harmful chemicals used (including PVC). I am extremely passionate about eliminating harmful materials in the manufacture of our products, and I believe NightHawk is the most sustainably produced headphone ever made. You can read more about our sustainability efforts here.
Third, our pads are made from eggshell membrane-derived proteins, so it's a more natural material than regular synthetic leather. This particular leather was specifically developed to more closely resemble human skin, which means improved comfort. Further, this eggshell leather is much more durable than genuine leather. We made the decision to use eggshell leather so that the pads wouldn't wear out as fast as genuine leather and would require no maintenance. You can read more about NightHawk's ergonomic design here.
Fourth, if you still want to make your own pads, the stock pads can be easily taken off the retaining frame and swapped out.
The only thing I'm still having a hard time getting over is the muddiness in the lower mids.
In my vernacular, I consider low/mid muddiness the opposite of tightness...a smeared sound.
When I experience speakers or headphones with muddy lower mids, the source of the problem can almost always be traced back to either resonance, intermodulation, or some other form of distortion.
Granted everyone's hearing is different, and preferences can be wildly different, I am surprised to hear NightHawk's lows or mids described as "muddy." NH was designed to be basically resonance-free and has lower intermodulation distortion than any headphone I've measured. A lot of owners specifically comment to me just how tight bass and mids are with NH. This was certainly the goal with many of the new design elements such as the split-gap motor, underhung voice coil, true surround, and radially symmetric venting.
With NH, one should be able to effortlessly distinguish lower-register instruments from one another and actually hear the time-based characteristics (attack/decay/silence between notes) much more clearly. One of my references when evaluating any system's performance in this realm is "Born Again" from Supergrass' notoriously "thick"-sounding, self-titled 1999 release. The bass & lower mids on this track are basically impossible to reproduce tightly since you have kick drum, tom fills, electric bass, bowed double bass + string section, and a Rhodes piano bassline all occupying the same spectral range with heavy dynamic compression. The track is a mess. Most headphones reproduce the lower mids as just a vague blob of fuzzy resonance. NightHawk really excels at making sense of tricky material like this thanks to it's ultra-linear motor & diaphragm motion.
Can you point me to some tracks that you're having a hard time with re:NightHawk?
In my vernacular, I consider low/mid muddiness the opposite of tightness...a smeared sound.
When I experience speakers or headphones with muddy lower mids, the source of the problem can almost always be traced back to either resonance, intermodulation, or some other form of distortion.
Granted everyone's hearing is different, and preferences can be wildly different, I am surprised to hear NightHawk's lows or mids described as "muddy." NH was designed to be basically resonance-free and has lower intermodulation distortion than any headphone I've measured. A lot of owners specifically comment to me just how tight bass and mids are with NH. This was certainly the goal with many of the new design elements such as the split-gap motor, underhung voice coil, true surround, and radially symmetric venting.
With NH, one should be able to effortlessly distinguish lower-register instruments from one another and actually hear the time-based characteristics (attack/decay/silence between notes) much more clearly. One of my references when evaluating any system's performance in this realm is "Born Again" from Supergrass' notoriously "thick"-sounding, self-titled 1999 release. The bass & lower mids on this track are basically impossible to reproduce tightly since you have kick drum, tom fills, electric bass, bowed double bass + string section, and a Rhodes piano bassline all occupying the same spectral range with heavy dynamic compression. The track is a mess. Most headphones reproduce the lower mids as just a vague blob of fuzzy resonance. NightHawk really excels at making sense of tricky material like this thanks to it's ultra-linear motor & diaphragm motion.
Can you point me to some tracks that you're having a hard time with re:NightHawk?
I brought my pair home from the dealer around 11:30 this morning and have been listening ever since (so literally right out of the box). All I can say is wow, these are exactly what I've been wishing for for the last 20 years! I can't imagine what they'll sound like when more broken in. I was really worried with all the talk of huge burn-in, muddiness, distant sound, etc. but no problems here. I've had so many highly regarded phones come through my system this year and was disappointed every time. I guess I "get" the goals for the voicing of these phones. Also, regarding the cable, it may not look great but it sounds way better than my Cardas.
I feel the same way having owned many high end phones, I think these are endgame for me! I haven't been looking for any other headphones for the past few weeks because of these, and my grado's compliment them nicely, so I have nothing left to look for. Speakers maybe?