[Greed]

In each of my setups (M7/M9, PWD MKII/M9, etc.), I concluded that the DAC was the main reason for the better sonics. I personally feel the M7 and PWD MKII sound better via XLR (balanced). I cannot say for other systems, but in general I would guess the two inputs are very similar sonically (that is... amp side). If possible, I would definitely use the balanced inputs. 

 

[preproman]

   
Put it this way, I wouldn't be afraid that I was losing bits of sound, etc. (plug in various opinions about SE vs BAL here) if my main setup was utilizing only half of what the M9 can do (via RCA).
 

 
How would this even be possible technically ?

 

[Greed]

   
How would this even be possible technically ?

 
What exactly are you referring to? The lost bits comment?

 

[preproman]

Yes - How is that technically possible?

 

[Greed]

I was referring to the combination in question which is MSB/M9. Because the MSB Analog is a single-ended design, they use op-amps (transformer based step up) to boost the signal. The SE by design is the cleaner pathway. If you use the "XLR" on the Analog, you will introduce phase shift problems which will introduce degradation to the sound (i.e losing bits). 

 

[Benny-x]

  Yes - How is that technically possible?

The way I interpreted his comment was " it's not anything crazy like ____ is happening". He happened to put "losing bits" in that blank, but it really didn't matter what was there. He was just saying that the combination wasn't some drastically inferior setup compared to the one he said he preferred. Something that us audiophiles have a tendency of saying when we're contrasting options.
 
I've also been keeping an eye on the Audio-gd site and haven't seen any new products for a while. Although it might annoy some people, I actually like that Kingwa comes out with new stuff frequently. So, does anyone know if something new will be coming out soon?

 

[preproman]

Hard to believe a DAC that's so highly regarded and cost so much would have phase shift problems and losing bits.  That's a new one on me.  

 

[Greed]

Darryl, I'm not really sure where the confusion is... but that is definitely not what I said. These issues are not isolated to just the MSB Analog. Many DACs that include XLR outs that are not balanced designs have the same or similar issues. I found the same issues with the AMR which is also a single-ended design but sports some useless (my opinion) XLR outs. Either way, this is moving OT. 
 

  The way I interpreted his comment was " it's not anything crazy like ____ is happening". He happened to put "losing bits" in that blank, but it really didn't matter what was there. He was just saying that the combination wasn't some drastically inferior setup compared to the one he said he preferred. Something that us audiophiles have a tendency of saying when we're contrasting options.
 
I've also been keeping an eye on the Audio-gd site and haven't seen any new products for a while. Although it might annoy some people, I actually like that Kingwa comes out with new stuff frequently. So, does anyone know if something new will be coming out soon?

 
Yea, this pretty much sums it up. 

 

[SoupRKnowva]

From the website “Using RCA input, Master 9 can convert to balanced ACSS signal and output real balance signal from XLR and ACSS.” Looks different to me…

Balanced:



40 ohm:   9000MW

100 ohm: 3800MW

300 ohm: 1250MW

600 ohm:   630MW
SE:



40 ohm:   2500MW

100 ohm: 1050MW

300 ohm: 350MW

600 ohm:   175MW

I don't really know where your confusion is coming from. It can output either balanced or single ended from the RCA inputs. The power output specs are entirely accurate. If you plug your headphones into the single ended output you can get that amount of power as listed in the single ended column. And the same with if you plug them into the balanced output, you can get as much power as is listed in the balanced output column...

Whether you use single ended or balanced I out doesn't effect the amount of power you can get out of the output stage

 

[Articnoise]

I don't really know where your confusion is coming from. It can output either balanced or single ended from the RCA inputs. The power output specs are entirely accurate. If you plug your headphones into the single ended output you can get that amount of power as listed in the single ended column. And the same with if you plug them into the balanced output, you can get as much power as is listed in the balanced output column...

Whether you use single ended or balanced I out doesn't effect the amount of power you can get out of the output stage

I don’t know how you have interpret my post. I believe it is like you says here “The power output specs are entirely accurate. If you plug your headphones into the single ended output you can get that amount of power as listed in the single ended column. And the same with if you plug them into the balanced output, you can get as much power as is listed in the balanced output column...”
 
And if you change output to input in your next sentence I will agree.
 
“Whether you use single ended or balanced I out doesn't effect the amount of power you can get out of the output stage”

 

[Articnoise]

  Talking about Sound Quality not mw's.  Unless you somehow think more mw or watts = to better SQ..

I believe SQ can be better if using Master 9s full potential (more headroom and lower noise floor). AFIK it is a Real Balanced ACSS design and are primarily constructed to be used that way, even when it sound very good on the SE as well. How big the change in SQ will be will depend on that headphones and other gear you use. Ranging from no change detected too this is clearly better.

 

[ardilla]

^M9 is a balanced design, and getting the output unbalanced implies a partly different circuitry, so it is not just a matter of sheer power.

The Auralic Taurus does this by changing the way power modules are used, and you can choose to have unbalanced sound into a balanced cable by a switch. The difference is very significant, like two different amps. But on the Taurus, I actually sometimes prefer the unbalanced mode, sometimes it makes things smoother in a nice way

 

[punit]

Kingwa's reply to which sounds better (Balanced vs SE) on M9 was  :
 
" In same source, the XLR is better than RCA connect, this is because the XLR had native advantage than the RCA, it had less noise, better ability to refuse interrupt and more dynamic .
And you can try the ACSS connect, compare to XLR , RCA, see which is best for you.
I am advice you don't connect XLR and RCA in same time for the compare. "
 
I am not clear if he meant this  generally or this is with reference to my source - AGD NFB 7 DAC.

 

[nigeljames]

Comparing my ACSS connection (DIY Homegrown Audio Silver Cable - £80) to XLR (Artisan Ultimate Silver Dream I\C - £200) I prefer the ACSS.
Seems to be cleaner and more transparent.
 
This is between my NFB-7 and Master-6. Have not heard the Master-9.

 

[punit]

Nigel,
 
Do you find that XLR has higher gain than ACSS ? In my speaker system the Master 1  XLR out has slightly higher gain (1 step on the volume control) than ACSS out, other than that they sound sonically identical on the speaker.