[audio-gd]

I think I was made the wrong description about match to the low end gears .
I was want say ,  for new fans, maybe can't hear the different.
For senior fans, even match to a USD100 low end DAC+amp but also can hear the different quite easy .
I think most people just want to enjoy the music, not interest at what technology applied.
Just like a lot older hi-end DACs, the specs not good as most new DACs at present but I think their sound level not bad than most new DACs.

 

[ninjikiran]

haha I am to
Quote:

OK, now I'm confused............

 

[jimmychan]

 
The DI can set to bitperfect output without oversampling, but it still works as a digital filter to minimize the jitter.
 

 

[audio-gd]

The DSP3  had not design the digital filter software. For SPDIF output format, must without digital filter.
The upsampling just for fun , it is not default.

 

[realmassy]

Quote:

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Does the Audio-gd intend to compete with Musiland or M2tech? Yes. Are they the same kind of product? No. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]The fact is that you are buying sophisticated software when you buy Musiland or M2tech products. Their asynchronous software is a good part of what you are hearing. Software has become a product in itself which is why Musiland and M2tech (and Wavelength) package it and license it to other companies. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]How does Kingwa choose to compete? Presumably he is no programmer and the cost of licensing software from a third party vendor makes no sense in a product that he wants to sell for USD140-190. So what does he do? He goes in another direction: DSP. This is not a new idea; award winning players (and DACS) from Harmon Kardon and Cambridge (to name just two) have "DSP modules". The problem for Kingwa is that DSP is perceived by some to be old fashioned; a move in the wrong direction.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]There was an expectation that Audio-gd would go head-to-head with Musiland and M2tech and build a super-dooper re-clocker and keep the bits “pure”. From what I can work out they have chosen to do re-clocking as well as other things. The criticism is already about that DSP-3 will corrupt the source (by jiggling the bits) such that it no longer is a “transport” in a pure sense. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I can see that DSP-3 will divide attitudes. It is already doing so. Even if user reviews are overwhelmingly positive there will be folk who will argue that any DSP is inherently flawed and can never be “better”. Impolitely, they will say that anyone who prefers it is delusional. As for me, I intend to listen to the DSP-3 and send it back if I don’t like it. The delusion would be to make up my mind about it before I hear it.[/size][/size]

I'm an Audio-GD fan, but in this case I totally agree with you Audio Bling.
A good usb to spdif converter has a large software component, that I think is totally lacking here.
Also, I had the chance to compare the Hiface and the Halide Bridge, and on Windows the Hiface is au pair with the Bridge  because of the proprietary drivers (things are different on Mac and Linux).
Nevertheless, I'm curious to read reviews and opinions from the 15 testers

 

[Trapper32]

Quote:

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Does the Audio-gd intend to compete with Musiland or M2tech? Yes. Are they the same kind of product? No. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]The fact is that you are buying sophisticated software when you buy Musiland or M2tech products. Their asynchronous software is a good part of what you are hearing. Software has become a product in itself which is why Musiland and M2tech (and Wavelength) package it and license it to other companies. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]How does Kingwa choose to compete? Presumably he is no programmer and the cost of licensing software from a third party vendor makes no sense in a product that he wants to sell for USD140-190. So what does he do? He goes in another direction: DSP. This is not a new idea; award winning players (and DACS) from Harmon Kardon and Cambridge (to name just two) have "DSP modules". The problem for Kingwa is that DSP is perceived by some to be old fashioned; a move in the wrong direction.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]There was an expectation that Audio-gd would go head-to-head with Musiland and M2tech and build a super-dooper re-clocker and keep the bits “pure”. From what I can work out they have chosen to do re-clocking as well as other things. The criticism is already about that DSP-3 will corrupt the source (by jiggling the bits) such that it no longer is a “transport” in a pure sense. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I can see that DSP-3 will divide attitudes. It is already doing so. Even if user reviews are overwhelmingly positive there will be folk who will argue that any DSP is inherently flawed and can never be “better”. Impolitely, they will say that anyone who prefers it is delusional. As for me, I intend to listen to the DSP-3 and send it back if I don’t like it. The delusion would be to make up my mind about it before I hear it.[/size][/size]

Well written post.....couldn't agree more.

 

[digger945]

 
Quote:

 
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]The fact is that you are buying sophisticated software when you buy Musiland or M2tech products. Their asynchronous software is a good part of what you are hearing. Software has become a product in itself which is why Musiland and M2tech (and Wavelength) package it and license it to other companies. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]How does Kingwa choose to compete? Presumably he is no programmer and the cost of licensing software from a third party vendor makes no sense in a product that he wants to sell for USD140-190. So what does he do? He goes in another direction: DSP. This is not a new idea; award winning players (and DACS) from Harmon Kardon and Cambridge (to name just two) have "DSP modules". The problem for Kingwa is that DSP is perceived by some to be old fashioned; a move in the wrong direction.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]There was an expectation that Audio-gd would go head-to-head with Musiland and M2tech and build a super-dooper re-clocker and keep the bits “pure”. From what I can work out they have chosen to do re-clocking as well as other things. The criticism is already about that DSP-3 will corrupt the source (by jiggling the bits) such that it no longer is a “transport” in a pure sense. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
 

Having owned the Musiland 02, HiFace, and a product using Streamlength from Wavelength Audio, I can say that the Wavelength product does not use driver software installed on the computer like the other 2 do. The Wavelength product is hardware with code to control usb timing. Not exactly sure how the Musiland or HiFace manage this with software on the computer.
 
As for the "super-dooper re-clocker" I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but there is no controlling the bits to make them "pure", just control of the timing. There are different ways used to do this.
 
Hope that I didn't misunderstand your post and sorry if I did. I am interested in the product and want to know more about how it works and if it uses software installed on the computer or does it's thing on it's own like Wavelength(usb timing control) or Empirical(Re-clocking) does.
 

 

[regal]

Boy I'd like to see digital filtering without oversampling,  what does it have a -3dB at 10khz?   You obviously don't know what you are talking about.
 
 
Quote:

 
The DI can set to bitperfect output without oversampling, but it still works as a digital filter to minimize the jitter.
 

 

[ccschua]

time to refresh on oversampling and digital filter. back to the basics. Did I miss out on the clock jitter in ppm?

 

[Audio Bling]

 
Quote:

[..]
As for the "super-dooper re-clocker" I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but there is no controlling the bits to make them "pure", just control of the timing.
[..]
 
 

 
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]By "super-dooper re-clocker" I meant something like the Empirical Audio approach. By “pure” I meant bit perfect. [/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]--------------------------------------[/size][/size][/size][/size]
 
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]At last count, Empirical offer three different kinds of “clocks” in their Off-Ramp ranging from cuckoo to atomic accuracy. It’s speculation on my part but I doubt that A-gd would attempt a Wavelength type implementation; from what I read, the investment in time and effort by Gordon Rankin was huge. I am only guessing but I suspect the DSP-3 is a re-clocker like the EA product (but at a fraction of the price). Additionally, it has DSP functionality which will be (to some extent?) tailorable and defeatable by way of those DIP switches. It also has the potential of I2S connection; this also being a theme strongly promoted by EA.[/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt] [/size][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]Or, am I wrong?[/size][/size][/size][/size]

 

[ninjikiran]

Only concern is with USB mode, if it uses the standard windows USB driver it will be stuck at 16/48khz more than likely.
 
Based on what I gathered on the Audio-Gd device it should be more or less transparent unless you choose to make it handle the upsampling.  Just providing an interface between your computer and dac while minimizing jitter.
 
Someone has offered me a HiFace for a decent price, and I am 100% sure it uses a driver for windows which allows more than 16/48khz to be used.

 

[shogo33]

The Hiface sure does rely on its optimised drivers for windows/mac.  But simply for this reason it doesnt make it a long term solution as it depends upon software updates in my opinion.  But then again, does the DI use a firmware, which may require updating?

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Only concern is with USB mode, if it uses the standard windows USB driver it will be stuck at 16/48khz more than likely.
 

 
The Tenor chip does 24/96 without special drivers. 

 
Other than that, there are some weird ideas and speculation in this thread.  No matter. I will say though, Kingwa usually makes stuff because someone suggests him to do so.  He said to me in an email once to the effect of that he doesn't want to make cheap gear if it doesn't sound good.  He is also sensitive to feedback and that his customers are happy.  Note there is now a big, shiny gold-plated 75 Ohm BNC socket on the USBFace now.  I wont attempt to comment on the digital stuff, as I don't know enough, except to say that I have great trouble hearing any significant difference between the up-sampling being on and off in my Reference 3.

 

[Thaddy]

Quote:

The Hiface sure does rely on its optimised drivers for windows/mac.  But simply for this reason it doesnt make it a long term solution as it depends upon software updates in my opinion.  But then again, does the DI use a firmware, which may require updating?

Honestly though, how many software updates are required to achieve bit-perfect output?  HiFace owners shouldn't be required to update their software weekly.  IMO, not a good reason to NOT consider it a long term solution.

 

[ManBeard]

Quote:

Honestly though, how many software updates are required to achieve bit-perfect output?  HiFace owners shouldn't be required to update their software weekly.  IMO, not a good reason to NOT consider it a long term solution.

There's been 4 official updates to the Windows driver and 5 updates to the Mac driver since the Hiface was released about 1 year ago. That's a lot less than most computer hardware.