[Sonic Defender]

 
 
Regarding the volume level with Cipher, I consistently listen OUTDOORS (where it's even louder) at about 25% or so. I can't imagine what it's like to be at 50% - 75%...and my ears already hurt imagining what levels your colleague listens at to, claiming it was too low.
 

I suspect you listen fairly quietly. Most people I know who think they listen at close to loud levels actually listen to me rather quietly. Have you ever used a SPL meter to see? I for instance like a rather loud playback volume, easily 85-90db (but for shorter duration) so I can imagine getting well past half way with the Cypher.

 

[brent75]

  I suspect you listen fairly quietly. Most people I know who think they listen at close to loud levels actually listen to me rather quietly. Have you ever used a SPL meter to see? I for instance like a rather loud playback volume, easily 85-90db (but for shorter duration) so I can imagine getting well past half way with the Cypher.

I've never used an SPL meter - it would be interesting to see.
 
My duration is about 45 minutes -- it's when I take the dogs out for a walk. I've found that if I listen louder, the music will sound good at first but get fatiguing pretty quickly. If I was listening to classical or pure acoustic, I'd probably turn it up louder...but for my ears it's too much when there's instrumentation going on.

 

[marcus2704]

   I had V-MODA Crossfade M-100 (with XL pads) prior to owning Sine + Cipher.
 
Regarding the bass -- V-MODA certainly has quantity, but I think Sine has much quality. Partially being planar, but partially because the mids are so good. People don't realize how important things like mids are to actually making the bass sound good. Compared to Sine, the V-MODAs sound downright muffled (to me, at least).
 
Regarding the volume level with Cipher, I consistently listen OUTDOORS (where it's even louder) at about 25% or so. I can't imagine what it's like to be at 50% - 75%...and my ears already hurt imagining what levels your colleague listens at to, claiming it was too low.
 
I have the Dragonfly Red as well. I actually prefer the sound with my Cipher cable, and it's amazingly convenient to only have iPod + headphones to worry about...no extra cords/DACs/CCKs/etc.
 
(I love the Red for my laptop, BTW)

 
Very interesting especially as you had the exact same setup as I do, thank you all for your replies I am going to order the Sine + Cipher cable for testing today.

 

[marcan]

   
Very interesting especially as you had the exact same setup as I do, thank you all for your replies I am going to order the Sine + Cipher cable for testing today.

From my experience, the Sine doesn't have the headroom for a big sound at a decent level (~100dB).

 

[marcus2704]

  From my experience, the Sine doesn't have the headroom for a big sound at a decent level (~100dB).

Worrying.  What source would that be with?   I will be listening with a IPhone 6 Plus & Cipher cable.

 

[marcan]

 
Worrying.  What source would that be with?   I will be listening with a IPhone 6 Plus & Cipher cable.

iphone 5s and fiiO e12 or weiss dac202 and bryston bha-1. So power wasn't an issue.

 

[thefitz]

  iphone 5s and fiiO e12 or weiss dac202 and bryston bha-1. So power wasn't an issue.

Using both the Oppo PM-3 and Sine with a FiiO X5 and E12A, I can say the PM-3 is louder at the same volume setting.

 

[natalieann]

if you have small ears, would these be more over the ear, than on ear?? they look a little on the bigger side for on ear

 

[GrouchoMarx1933]

For me they are firmly on ear.

 

[mscott58]

  if you have small ears, would these be more over the ear, than on ear?? they look a little on the bigger side for on ear

You'd have to have some mighty small ears...

 

[Jazz1]

  You'd have to have some mighty small ears...

I'm concerned about this. I recently returned the B&O H8 because my ears just couldn't find a comfortable spot in the ear cups. The top of my ears hurt no matter how I repositioned the headphones. The various positions with the top of my ear on the outside or inside of the hole just tweaked my ear. I'm currently using B&W P5 wireless headphones and thing the transitional area near the top of my ear much more comfortable. Oddly I sold my original non-wireless P5's because I had a similar pain issue as with the H8. I'm really hoping the Sine doesn't give me the same problem. I may finally get delivery of the Sine next week. The P5 wireless is decent BTW, but of course the Sine Cipher cable should outside it. I also just got the B&O H6 second generation, and I'm loving it after replacing the stock cable. Can't wait to get the Sine a do a comparison. Didn't like the B&H H7 sound, or the H8 compared to the P5 wireless.

 

[brent75]

 
I'm concerned about this. I recently returned the B&O H8 because my ears just couldn't find a comfortable spot in the ear cups. The top of my ears hurt no matter how I repositioned the headphones. The various positions with the top of my ear on the outside or inside of the hole just tweaked my ear. I'm currently using B&W P5 wireless headphones and thing the transitional area near the top of my ear much more comfortable. Oddly I sold my original non-wireless P5's because I had a similar pain issue as with the H8. I'm really hoping the Sine doesn't give me the same problem. I may finally get delivery of the Sine next week. The P5 wireless is decent BTW, but of course the Sine Cipher cable should outside it. I also just got the B&O H6 second generation, and I'm loving it after replacing the stock cable. Can't wait to get the Sine a do a comparison. Didn't like the B&H H7 sound, or the H8 compared to the P5 wireless.

I started with Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 (which are described as over-ear) and I returned them because they were too uncomfortable.
 
I now have Audeze Sine (which are described as on-ear) and I love them, and they're more comfortable.
 
It doesn't make sense to me...but is proof that you no matter how much you scour online stuff, you never really know until you try them yourself.

 

[bahula03]

  if you have small ears, would these be more over the ear, than on ear?? they look a little on the bigger side for on ear

For me, they end up almost entirely over the ear, are very comfy, and no one has ever suggested that my ears may be mighty small. As mentioned above, trying them is the best option and any authorized reseller is going to have a return policy that accommodates getting past initial impressions.

 

[thefitz]

 
For me, they end up almost entirely over the ear, are very comfy, and no one has ever suggested that my ears may be mighty small. As mentioned above, trying them is the best option and any authorized reseller is going to have a return policy that accommodates getting past initial impressions.

Re:Oppo PM-3, the Oppo's earpads touched the area of my head around my ears, and the Sine, while completely covering my ears, sits flatly on them.

 

[Jazz1]

 
Re:Oppo PM-3, the Oppo's earpads touched the area of my head around my ears, and the Sine, while completely covering my ears, sits flatly on them.

That is very good to know. I didn't like the Oppo pads as just barely rode on the outside of my ears. I returned them. I also didn't like their pleather which kind of "creaked" on my ears if I turned my head. The sound was okay.
 
I'm hoping that either my smallish ears ride flat on the Sine cups, or somehow fit inside the inner rim. I guessing the latter is a long shot and might change the sound anyway. I also recently got the on-ear wireless B&W P5's. My ears seem to ride on the padded part of the ear cup well. Though the leather covers the inside of the ear pad, but you can see the outline of the inner ridge of the ear pad. Can anyone compare the P5's comfort to the Sine? I suppose it is all relative to the person.
 
I know the best way to know is to try them, but I don't have any stores near me that carry them. Besides, Moon Audio is great to work with, and I'm eagerly waiting for a Sine with Cipher cable.