[thesurfingalien]

@sokolov
 
My apologies...  And also to Killkli!  There is indeed a HD600, and the most stupid thing is that I have it myself...  I has been a long day for me...
 
However, my point that a microphone like Killkli is using is not a microphone that is suitable for this kind of task is still valid.  Besides that, it takes a special room (absolutely no outside noise etc...) to do a measurement like this.  Also, we are talking about measuring headphones, not loudspeakers.  Loudspeakers are meant to perform their task in open air; headphones are not.  
 
For example, if you put on your headset, but hold both ends a little bit away so they won't touch your skull, it sounds quite different, right?  That is also the reason why an open-air measurement on a headset will not give reliable results...  For that, you need to simulate a "headphone on skull" situation...
 
Regards,
Peter

 

[purrin]

Quote:

 
For all we know, those who like the LCD-2, or the HD 800 are actually hearing the same thing due to their ears...
 
Just food for thought

I think Skylab put it best. We have our own preferences. A smart reader could infer from Skylab's equipment list (especially those many variations of Darth's he's owned in the past) that he prefers a certain type of sound, and that I tend toward the other direction.

 

[sokolov91]

Very valid points, the limitations of his measurements are equal for both headphones though... so it makes the results comparable, just not definitive...
 
Demanding proof in an anechoic chamber is pretty ridiculous considering no one here (that I know of at any rate) listens in one. That information is actually most likely LESS useful than that of a normal room for all intents and purposes.
 
Dummy heads are best - yes. But there is also the fact that as far as I am aware, ear cancellations and other complexities are more common the higher the frequency... 50hz test tone really shouldn't be too bad in the grand scheme of things... especially for just some tid bit information...
 
Also he never said he did "open air testing" or anything, just said he tested it... Probably just put the mic in, or very close to the cup, obviously the further the placement the less useful..

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

I think Skylab put it best. We have our own preferences. A smart reader could infer from Skylab's equipment list (especially those many variations of Darth's he's owned in the past) that he prefers a certain type of sound, and that I tend toward the other direction.

Well I think inferring from posts could be done, musical preferences and headphones too,  but other factors much less.
 
Amps, DAC, cables are all highly debatable how much of a difference they truly make -subjective assertions aside it seems most likely past a certain point they become a non-issue. IE anything "high end" should sound more or less similar. Lots of data supporting this too, Not much against it. I find the whole "haven't heard X headphone until you have it with Y amp/dac/cable/combo etc is not a very strong argument. People tend to like certain headphones, and dislike either. Impedance mismatches aside I consider most peoples gear a constant or non-variable.
 
Just take me, SA5K and LCD-2 are night and day different... D7000 is pretty diff two and the HE-6 are kind of in the middle. My history of headphones went from pretty bright, to pretty bassy, to what I would consider as neutral (lcd-2)
 
And we could use you as an example too, not really sure what your W1000X mod has done but it has a nice juicy midbass hump. If you find that kind of bass "detailed" it suggests you prefer an uneven presentation of that region which seems to be pretty common with people who dislike the LCD-2. Same thing I would imagine for the HP-2 as a grado, but its just speculation as I have never heard those grados.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I don't totally buy the argument that we all hear differently.  I mean we very well might, but an acoustic guitar puts out the same sound no matter what your ears hear.  So if you hear 2db more X, then a guitar will have 2db more X as well.  So we all have the same reference- real life -which is what we are comparing to.  I know headphones are different than real life or speakers because of the proximity to the ear.
 
But I think it's more likely that headphones can't perfectly reproduce all the qualities of real life sounds, and different headphones make different sacrifices.  We all choose which sacrifices we prefer due to personality and priorities (the qualities we are looking for most) more than anything else. 
 
Then there's our equipment, which doesn't do enough to turn an HD800 into an LCD2 but it has an effect in changing these things.
 
Then there's the kind of music we listen to which can make certain sacrifices less of a problem. Like lack of bass in acoustic music, etc
 
And I also think that since we often aren't really looking for completely realistic, but instead for something to sound good, I think we choose different colorations depending on all of the above and prefer them to others.  The way people always talk about having different headphones for different genres is a good example of this. 

 

[n3rdling]

Quote:

After owning the LCD-2 for three weeks and then also hearing them on different setups at the meet, I can confidently say that they do not quite do it for me as much as I had thought. They are indeed excellent headphones, and I appreciate what they do well, but I think this forum may possibly be over exaggerating their sound quality. I may very well get criticized for these statements but I just wanted to let people know my point of view in case it helps those unacquainted with the headphones.
 
It's quite interesting how much this FOTM mentality, with the fact that there are about 5-6 people on this forum that repeatedly post on the 4-5 threads about these cans can really do to convince people these may be the be all end all of headphones.
 
It is difficult for me to say that the LCD-2s performed on par with the Stax Omegas or O2s, or even the 507 on FrankCooter's setup. Not only that but the HD800 and maybe the T1 and HE6 as well seemed to do be more to my liking than the LCD-2s. There is something about the cans being a little congested or lacking in the high end that makes the music sound veiled. I do think they are in the same playing field in terms of detail and resolution, but I hope that people aren't misleading everyone that these cans do indeed hold a higher status than the others.
 
I've seen some statements on here from some members that insist as fact that the LCD-2 are a step above the HD800 or other aforementioned cans. However, this is not necessarily the case- especially to my ears. Not here to bash the LCD-2, as they still are an excellent pair of headphones and I would own them as well if I had the money, but just warning others not to take the opinions of those that post every other post on this thread as the only opinions on the playing field. Much of the time, members of this forum, and of course including myself, can become a little stubborn with their stance on a particular headphone's status and it can skew the true opinions too!

Awesome post!!  Sorry for forgetting, but I can't remember who you were at the meet.  Were you the Asian male, probably early 20s, that sat a few seats from me and talked about getting a O2/717 system?  Or were you the guy in the opposite corner of the room from me?
 
I think you brought up a good point in that a few people can post thousands of times about a headphone and totally dominate a thread to the point where people who have voiced criticisms of the headphone, such as myself, no longer care to participate and get lost among all the shouting.  There were two very interesting things regarding the LCD2s that I noted at the meet:
- The above statement was being discussed in the room quite a bit with people sharing remarkably similar lists of "annoying LCD2 posters"
- I talked to many (30-40?) people about what they thought of my headphones and which they preferred at the meet.  Only 1 person said the LCD2 was their favorite! 

  Many said they thought the LCD2 were very good, and many said they thought the LCD2 were a bit overrated.  
 
I agree with the bolded, and it was quite obvious at the meet, regardless of the headphones being compared to the LCD2 being 'bright' or 'dark'.

 

[Currawong]

Lately I've had the thought that measuring the performance of gear with frequency sweeps (I assume this is almost always the norm) doesn't really give a correct appraisal. Rather like how someone compared the excellent measurements of a certain DAC to the horrid reproduction of a square wave it put out. I can't help wondering if the suggestions of lack of resolution in the bass frequencies, despite the measurements, relate to this.
 
I was also thinking yesterday about my reasons for selling the HD-800s. It came down to the huge headstage being too much of a good thing.  I'm thinking maybe I need to go and get a pair of 507s after reading all the glowing reports about them from the recent meet. Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to buy another pair of headphones.

 

[BrianMendoza]

n3rdling, I got a chance to see some of the pictures from this weekend's SF meet. And I am REALLY hoping you're going to be at the small San Diego meet.
 
You've got some SICK gear to say the least.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

Awesome post!!  Sorry for forgetting, but I can't remember who you were at the meet.  Were you the Asian male, probably early 20s, that sat a few seats from me and talked about getting a O2/717 system?  Or were you the guy in the opposite corner of the room from me?
 
I think you brought up a good point in that a few people can post thousands of times about a headphone and totally dominate a thread to the point where people who have voiced criticisms of the headphone, such as myself, no longer care to participate and get lost among all the shouting.  There were two very interesting things regarding the LCD2s that I noted at the meet:
- The above statement was being discussed in the room quite a bit with people sharing remarkably similar lists of "annoying LCD2 posters"
- I talked to many (30-40?) people about what they thought of my headphones and which they preferred at the meet.  Only 1 person said the LCD2 was their favorite! 

  Many said they thought the LCD2 were very good, and many said they thought the LCD2 were a bit overrated.  
 
I agree with the bolded, and it was quite obvious at the meet, regardless of the headphones being compared to the LCD2 being 'bright' or 'dark'.

To contrast your wisdom, I know of a few that feel exactly the same with the STAX O2...

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

To contrast your wisdom, I know of a few that feel exactly the same with the STAX OMG2...

But it costs more, and is electrostatic so by definition it is better -DUH.

 

[n3rdling]

SP Wild, If you're talking about me, the difference is that I have a considerable amount of experience with both the LCD2 and the O2 and the people (really I can only think of one, 'frankly' I think you're making things up here) who feel that way own the LCD2 and heard the O2 once at a meet.  I'd venture 80 to 90% of the posts in the LCD2 thread are by the same 7 or so people.  And really, exactly the same?  Can you point me to 5-7 people who post literally hundreds to thousands of times on the O2 (also make sure to paste the link to the thread as I've never read an O2 thread with thousands of posts period so perhaps it does exist)?  Most of the vocal O2 owners rarely even post on HF anymore; I think the HD800 some 6-18 months ago might be a better comparison.
 
Brian, thanks.  I'm still not 100% sure I can go but I'm going to try.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

But it costs more, and is electrostatic so by definition it is better -DUH.

I find psychology very fascinating...everyone going slower than you is an idiot and ones going faster are maniacs. 
 
In the end, these are all big boys toys and I think everyone has a right to be gleeful as a child with their finest acquisitions...I still am with glee over my LCD2s, just as others - after many years, are with their O2 BHSE purchases.  Just a shame it cost so much to be childlike with innocence yet without consequence.

 

[n3rdling]

sokolov, if SP Wild is unable to link me by all means step in for him.  You guys are already proving our point mere hours after we called it.  Now where are the other 5? 

 

[turimbar1]

idk where you are but here its 3 in the morning, you will have to wait until they get to work 

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

SP Wild, If you're talking about me, the difference is that I have a considerable amount of experience with both the LCD2 and the O2 and the people (really I can only think of one, 'frankly' I think you're making things up here) who feel that way own the LCD2 and heard the O2 once at a meet.  I'd venture 80 to 90% of the posts in the LCD2 thread are by the same 7 or so people.  And really, exactly the same?  Can you point me to 5-7 people who post literally hundreds to thousands of times on the O2 (also make sure to paste the link to the thread as I've never read an O2 thread with thousands of posts period so perhaps it does exist)?  Most of the vocal O2 owners rarely even post on HF anymore; I think the HD800 some 6-18 months ago might be a better comparison.
 
Brian, thanks.  I'm still not 100% sure I can go but I'm going to try.

You could say the same about the HD650 and HE-6 threads...or the ortho thread or the T50RP thread...get over it.
 
Edit:  Sometimes posts are quick and and I wasn't able to see your post until afterwards...or perhaps I am a little slow.