[potkettleblack]

Is there a warranty change for 4's?

 

[kawaivpc1]

I absolutely get amused by the comments that state that the new cans make the last generation or competitors sound like soup cans connected by a string.  Come on guy(s), there are actually better or worse products, but gotta admit that Head-Fi has very rapidly reached the peak of how human ears can perceive sound.  Unless it progresses further with new recording tech (or popularization of binaural recordings) there isn't going to THAT much of a difference between current TOTL products vs the last.  Sennheiser has held onto the HD800 for that many years because of that.  It's still up there amongst the best.  

Exactly.... HD800 came out in 2010.
I don't think there's a headphone which sounds more accurate than HD800..

 

[mikoss]

Extremely expensive price point. Guess Audeze is now factoring in the cost of replacing the wood cups and the drivers.

 

[velvetx]

Audeze is a new brand for a new generation. Same with HiFi Man. Of course, whether something is "high-end" is about so much more than merely attaching a price tag.

 
If Audeze and Hifiman are brands for the new generation I don't want to be in it.  This type of mindset is exactly the reason why Audeze and Hifiman think they can charge what they charge.  
 
Fact is I know people still love Sennheiser and yes the HD800 has been around for 6 years which has outlasted every single flagship at Audeze and Hifiman.  HD650 by Sennheiser have always been a great starter can for people just really getting into serious audio (and to me a great budget buy).
 
Price tag is important because the way I feel right now is that Audeze and Hifiman are making it seem like anything below $2k is budget-fi while their $3k and $4k flagships are what people should be calling true quality audio.  Please keep in mind that STAX and Abyss have been selling headphones at that price for awhile but guess what they started at a high price.  Audeze and Hifiman are releasing products that have poor quality control and you can go to meets and hear something completely different than what you heard somewhere else.  At least with Sennheiser everywhere I go unless modded they sound the same.

 

[mscott58]

   
If Audeze and Hifiman are brands for the new generation I don't want to be in it.  This type of mindset is exactly the reason why Audeze and Hifiman think they can charge what they charge.  
 
Fact is I know people still love Sennheiser and yes the HD800 has been around for 6 years which has outlasted every single flagship at Audeze and Hifiman.  HD650 by Sennheiser have always been a great starter can for people just really getting into serious audio (and to me a great budget buy).
 
Price tag is important because the way I feel right now is that Audeze and Hifiman are making it seem like anything below $2k is budget-fi while their $3k and $4k flagships are what people should be calling true quality audio.  Please keep in mind that STAX and Abyss have been selling headphones at that price for awhile but guess what they started at a high price.  Audeze and Hifiman are releasing products that have poor quality control and you can go to meets and hear something completely different than what you heard somewhere else.  At least with Sennheiser everywhere I go unless modded they sound the same.

And any thoughts on Senn's approach to the upcoming Orpheus 2? 

 
Sorry, couldn't help myself. Cheers 

 

[mwilson]

^ Established brands have also been raising their price points in an effort to be perceived as more "upscale;" case in point Omega and Breitling over the last 10 years. So has Lange u. Söhne (they were already upscale but wanted to aim for further rarified status). 

 

[velvetx]

  ^ Established brands have also been raising their price points in an effort to be perceived as more "upscale;" case in point Omega and Breitling over the last 10 years. So has Lange u. Söhne (they were already upscale but wanted to aim for further rarified status). 

 
I agree and guess what I will never buy from them.  In argument of price point at least the HE1K sounds good but you take Pioneer with the SE-Master1 which sells for $2,500 according to the rep and that just isn't right.

 

[mikoss]

And any thoughts on Senn's approach to the upcoming Orpheus 2? :wink_face:

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Cheers 

The so-called Orpheus 2 is something completely different than the HD line. If Audeze wants to try and make a statement product for collectors or the ultra rich, they have a hell of a long way to go.

I own a pair of LCD-3's where a driver failed and wood cracked. Less than 6 months later, the wood cracked again while they were in their case at room temperature. Why the f anyone wants to buy their headphones after researching their quality control and quality in general is beyond me.

 

[mscott58]

  ^ Established brands have also been raising their price points in an effort to be perceived as more "upscale;" case in point Omega and Breitling over the last 10 years. So has Lange u. Söhne (they were already upscale but wanted to aim for further rarified status). 

Yeah, but the workmanship on the Lange's is effin' amazing. Don't know of any brand that hand finishes every single part (even the ones you can't see), then fully assembles the watch to make sure it works correctly, then fully disassembles it and re-polishes everything before assembling it for the final time. Things are a work of art. Expensive, yes, but amazing. Not for everyone, but as Ferris Bueller said they are "so choice". I have one of their watches from 1877 and hope some day to add a modern Lange to my collection. Cheers 

 

[mwilson]

  Yeah, but the workmanship on the Lange's is effin' amazing. Don't know of any brand that hand finishes every single part (even the ones you can't see), then fully assembles the watch to make sure it works correctly, then fully disassembles it and re-polishes everything before assembling it for the final time. Things are a work of art. Expensive, yes, but amazing. Not for everyone, but as Ferris Bueller said they are "so choice". I have one of their watches from 1877 and hope some day to add a modern Lange to my collection. Cheers 

 
I'm familiar with Lange, as I have one of their complicated timepieces. I also mentioned Omega and Breitling which don't do the Lange process madness. Omega simply wants to play at the same mid-level luxury as Rolex, so they raised their prices with not much else. Breitling at least started building their own movements in house for their more elevated models.

 

[mwilson]

   
I agree and guess what I will never buy from them.  In argument of price point at least the HE1K sounds good but you take Pioneer with the SE-Master1 which sells for $2,500 according to the rep and that just isn't right.

Well I'm not saying I agree with them or think it's right (let's be realistic, Audeze is nowhere near those brands), but I see what they're trying to do.

 

[mscott58]

   
I'm familiar with Lange, as I have one of their complicated timepieces. I also mentioned Omega and Breitling which don't do the Lange process madness. Omega simply wants to play at the same mid-level luxury as Rolex, so they raised their prices with not much else. Breitling at least started building their own movements in house for their more elevated models.

Sweet! Which Lange? I've always loved the Timezone. Feel free to move to PM if that's more appropriate. 

 

[rgs9200m]

I bet if someone had a new-in-box bass heavy R10 they could get 10 grand for it. Was the R10 so much better than the top phones today? I just mention this because of the price shock of the LCD4.
I think the real concern is that the LCD4 may sound sort of like the LCD3, but who knows until there are enough reports to get a good feel for it...
 
Edit (more Audeze ruminations):
I have been reading here that the LCD4 has highs that are more accentuated than previous Audezes; but I actually think the LCD3F highs are even slightly bright as they are, and basically just right. And they are a little brighter than the LCD3C, and even these had good extended treble and are not rolled off. The Oppo PM1 is more mellow than either of the LCD3 versions. To me, the LCD3F highs are just about as prominent as those on the Stax SR009 now, at least with a KGSS-HV amp for the Stax. So I'm wondering if the LCD4 highs are a quality or quantity thing.
 
I'm actually surprised when people call the Audezes deficient with treble, because it's really a phone like the Oppo PM1 that could use a bit more sparkle up top.
 
Bass I don't worry about, as long as it's tight, controlled, and detailed (just my preference).
 
What would really be nice is detail and speed and liquidity on the Stax 009 level, and nothing out there sounds like this to me, even other Staxes.

 

[conquerator2]

   
If Audeze and Hifiman are brands for the new generation I don't want to be in it.  This type of mindset is exactly the reason why Audeze and Hifiman think they can charge what they charge.  
 
Fact is I know people still love Sennheiser and yes the HD800 has been around for 6 years which has outlasted every single flagship at Audeze and Hifiman.  HD650 by Sennheiser have always been a great starter can for people just really getting into serious audio (and to me a great budget buy).
 
Price tag is important because the way I feel right now is that Audeze and Hifiman are making it seem like anything below $2k is budget-fi while their $3k and $4k flagships are what people should be calling true quality audio.  Please keep in mind that STAX and Abyss have been selling headphones at that price for awhile but guess what they started at a high price.  Audeze and Hifiman are releasing products that have poor quality control and you can go to meets and hear something completely different than what you heard somewhere else.  At least with Sennheiser everywhere I go unless modded they sound the same.

Um...
HE-300 - 299$
HE400S - 299$ 
HE400 - 399$
HE400i - 499$
HE-4 - 599$
HE-500 - 699$
HE-5LE - 699$
HE-560 - 899$
HE-6 - 1299$
HE-Ed-X - 1799$
HE1000 - 2999$
 
I see 4 headphones under 500$ [2 of which I consider great], 4 headphones under 1000$ [2 of which I consider excellent], 2 under 2000$ and 1 under 3000$.
I see headphones covering many different price ranges here. Sure, the HEK was their newest 'breakthrough' but there will already be the X version for half the price, packing most of the HEK performance. Before that, the most pricey has been the HE-6 at 1299$. Rest has been sub-1000 and sub-500 solid all-rounders, so I don't exactly see the problem in HFM's case?
 
I can't comment on the last statement as I haven't heard tens of HEKs or HE560s but saying something 'completely different' is ridiculous. Product variation? Sure. Completely different? Nope... QC [at least in case of HFM] has been improving steadily. The latest ones like the 400i, 400s and 560 seem to be doing quite well as far as QC goes. HEK I'll talk more when I have it, but I haven't seen many defective HEKs out there... While I've seen many working pairs at my recent meets.
 
Just sayin'. IMO. YMMV. 

 

[velvetx]

  Um...
HE-300 - 299$
HE400S - 299$ 
HE400 - 399$
HE400i - 499$
HE-4 - 599$
HE-500 - 699$
HE-5LE - 699$
HE-560 - 899$
HE-6 - 1299$
HE-Ed-X - 1799$
HE1000 - 2999$
 
I see 4 headphones under 500$ [2 of which I consider great], 4 headphones under 1000$ [2 of which I consider excellent], 2 under 2000$ and 1 under 3000$.
I see headphones covering many different price ranges here. Sure, the HEK was their newest 'breakthrough' but there will already be the X version for half the price, packing most of the HEK performance. Before that, the most pricey has been the HE-6 at 1299$. Rest has been sub-1000 and sub-500 solid all-rounders, so I don't exactly see the problem in HFM's case?
 
I can't comment on the last statement as I haven't heard tens of HEKs or HE560s but saying something 'completely different' is ridiculous. Product variation? Sure. Completely different? Nope... QC [at least in case of HFM] has been improving steadily. The latest ones like the 400i, 400s and 560 seem to be doing quite well as far as QC goes. HEK I'll talk more when I have it, but I haven't seen many defective HEKs out there... While I've seen many working pairs at my recent meets.
 
Just sayin'. IMO. YMMV. 

 
I can see your point in the different ranges of pricing for Hifiman but I still don't think that the HE-1000 at $3k is a good deal.  For the sake of your pricing scale some of those models Hifiman doesn't make anymore.  Look at the price jump from the HE-500 to the HE-560 though.